Santa Fe with Howling Blower

[biglar]

I have a Quadra Fire Santa Fe that's about 2 years old now. Last season it developed a kind of buzzing/howling sound like you'd get if you put a playing card in a bicycle's spokes and rode it real fast.

I suspected blower motor and tried to get it fixed on warranty, but dealer told me it was normal and he wouldn't replace the motor.

Last summer, I pulled that motor/blower assembly - the combustion air blower - and oiled the bearings, tho' once I had it out it spun freely and silently. Then I hooked up a jumper to the leads and it ran SILENTLY for 15 minutes. Sound of the blower in air only. OK......got down with flashlight and mirror and tried to see into the cavity it came out of. Nothing, nice and clean. (for a stove exhaust) Then pulled the baffle inside the firebox on the back of the right side as you look into stove and looked up in there with light. Nothing. Vacuumed it anyway. Reached in with fingers from both sides. Nothing. A little frustrated by now, I put a small bead of high temp black permatex around the flange to seal it and bolted it back in.

Started the stove and it sounded exactly as it did before. Now, recently it's turning more into a high pitched howling that's driving me nuts - and the d****d thing runs about all the time in this weather.

Anybody with ideas on what my problem might be ??

Thanks

Lar.

 

[DexterDay]

Try re-posting this in the Pellet Mill Forum. This is the Hearth Room (Woodstove room).

Or maybe a Mod will move it for you?

Is it possible that the blades are hitting the inside of the housing? Long shot, but maybe? Also you should only re-install the combustion blower with a new gasket (not high temp RTV silicone). Any small leak will release CO into your home (not good).

 

[begreen]

Moved to the pellet forum.

Santa Fe's are pack animals, it sounds like your stove is lonely. Get a few more Quads and they will howl together.

(J/K, I wanted to bump this to the top so you get some help.)

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

When you had the motor/plate/impeller out did you clean the blades and between the impeller and mount plate?

How do you clean your venting?

I'd put a gasket there instead of the high temp sealant as it provides both vibration and some sound dampening.

ETA: I'll bet you didn't know you had installed a potential pipe organ when you bought that stove.

What is happening is that ash has built up in your venting or other stuff in your air intake which along with the actual size of the holes in your burn pot has reached one of the resonate frequencies of the stove when the air is ether pulled into and through the burn pot or pushed out through the venting.

In short you have a pipe organ.

 

[whit]

My two year old Santa Fe started howling especially on a high flame. What it is in my case is that the plate to the right in front of the exhaust vent has fallen slightly to the right, so that there's a gap on the top left between it and the plate around the pellet drop. Since all the suction's behind that, the howl is the hot air from the flame being pulled through that crack by convection. At some point I'll take a rubber mallet to it and try to true up that part of the stove. Meanwhile I got the thinest glass rope the hardware had for stove doors, and slipped it partially under the right side of that plat to lift it slightly and tighten up the crack on the left side which was causing the howl. That hot air leaving by that straight path rather than up around by the tubes doesn't just howl, it's inefficient. Anyway, no more howling. It might work as well it I propped up the right side with a skinny piece of bare wire, but that much rope ran me 75 cents. So you might look to see if a crack is opening up at the top between those two plates in the back.

 

[biglar]

Yah, I checked the impeller carefully and cleaned all surfaces including between back and mounting plate. It isn't touching anything. Nothing in the ducting as far as I can see and reach. I'm surprised at how clean it is. (relatively) I've started my 3rd ton of pellets thru it a couple of weeks ago and the inside of the exhaust is black but not crusted. I expected a lot - much - more.

I can't reach all the ducting - they installed a one piece flex from the back of the stove, up and out of a higher wall fitting with an S-curve, then a right angle at the old chimney and on up to the top. I'll be changing that pretty soon, as I hear you and understand that could cause the howling. The stove sits 4 feet from the CO sensor and has given no problems at all. They installed it with an adapter on the outlet from the stove and sealed it with a small mountain of high temp silicone. It won't move and I'd have to destroy it to remove it. Don't want to do that quite yet.....but soon.

I just cleaned it thoroughly again today, including behind the exhaust vent plate and the howling is much reduced. I'll double check that as per the last message. That's a fairly new problem, tho', and the buzzing is still there and hasn't changed. When I was a kid (way long ago) my friends and I would clip a playing card to a front wheel fork of a bicycle with an old fashioned clothes pin so that when we rode it, it'd make a buzzing sound in the spokes of the wheel - very similar to what this stove's doing, except that this is a metallic sound and quite loud. It does it right from start up, as it gains speed and all the way to shut off, when it winds down with a noise like a "grrrrrrrrrrr.."

I owned and operated a restaurant kitchen equipment service business for years and there's no way that guy is going to tell me that's normal. I've worked on 100's or 1,000's of various kinds of blowers, exhausts, fans, you name it.......and that buzzing isn't right. Period. That dealer's full of b.s. and just doesn't want to fool with it.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Yah, I checked the impeller carefully and cleaned all surfaces including between back and mounting plate. It isn't touching anything. Nothing in the ducting as far as I can see and reach. I'm surprised at how clean it is. (relatively) I've started my 3rd ton of pellets thru it a couple of weeks ago and the inside of the exhaust is black but not crusted. I expected a lot - much - more.

I can't reach all the ducting - they installed a one piece flex from the back of the stove, up and out of a higher wall fitting with an S-curve, then a right angle at the old chimney and on up to the top. I'll be changing that pretty soon, as I hear you and understand that could cause the howling. The stove sits 4 feet from the CO sensor and has given no problems at all. They installed it with an adapter on the outlet from the stove and sealed it with a small mountain of high temp silicone. It won't move and I'd have to destroy it to remove it. Don't want to do that quite yet.....but soon.

I just cleaned it thoroughly again today, including behind the exhaust vent plate and the howling is much reduced. I'll double check that as per the last message. That's a fairly new problem, tho', and the buzzing is still there and hasn't changed. When I was a kid (way long ago) my friends and I would clip a playing card to a front wheel fork of a bicycle with an old fashioned clothes pin so that when we rode it, it'd make a buzzing sound in the spokes of the wheel - very similar to what this stove's doing, except that this is a metallic sound and quite loud. It does it right from start up, as it gains speed and all the way to shut off, when it winds down with a noise like a "grrrrrrrrrrr.."

I owned and operated a restaurant kitchen equipment service business for years and there's no way that guy is going to tell me that's normal. I've worked on 100's or 1,000's of various kinds of blowers, exhausts, fans, you name it.......and that buzzing isn't right. Period. That dealer's full of b.s. and just doesn't want to fool with it.

To really get all of the ducting you run a flexible shaft vent brush and then follow up with a leaf blower in vacuum mode attached to the end of your venting.

The burn pot holes is another place that needs attention, also anything in the air intake.

If your gaskets aren't fitting quite right or any air wash gaps have crud in them or are out of position.

 

[sante fe]

Its not normal. If you pull the right side panel you will see the blower housing and motor. There's a black wheel on the end of the motor. With the stove off turn the wheel by hand to hear or feel any thing rubbing.Move it up and down also to see if bearings have any movement or you can get it to rub You have to find the location first of the problem. Then open and inspected real good.When stove is running move the handle for dumping the pot from side to side sometimes that will rattle. Make sure the small holes in the bottom of the pot are clean. There are 4 small holes on each side on the very bottom of the pot. Just some suggestions. If the bearings in the motor are shot the fan could be touching some wear.Good luck

 

[biglar]

Thanks to everyone for the input so far. Sooner or later we'll find it and it'll turn out to be some silly thing and we'll go, "oh, yah, for pete's sake shoulda thought of that."

The holes in the firepot are clean and open - I made a tool for that and clean them every time I dump ashes. The stove is very sensitive to ashes in firepot and makes a snoring sound when there's too much in there - telling me it needs cleaned.

When I had the motor/impeller assembly out, I used jumpers to run the motor and held it in various positions and it was silent. End play in the bearings seems to be normal. No side to side play at all. I looked very closely with a flashlight, then felt around with my hands and there's nothing at all in the exhaust duct. I looked in the motor ventilation ports and saw nothing out of place.

Wasn't it the old Wheel of Fortune show where the contestants spun a big carnival type wheel with an arrow on a flexible stem sticking down between the pegs on the wheel ?? Contestant would give it a big spin and it'd make an "RRRRRrrrrrrrr" sound, desending in pitch as it slowed down. That's more or less what this thing sounds like and it started it within 3 months of new.

I tried looking up a phone # for Quadra Fire and can't find anything. Crawled all over their website and nothing. They keep saying to go to your dealer. Phooey. Does anyone have a number where I can reach Quadra Fire technical support ??

Thanks

Lar.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Its not normal. If you pull the right side panel you will see the blower housing and motor. There's a black wheel on the end of the motor. With the stove off turn the wheel by hand to hear or feel any thing rubbing.Move it up and down also to see if bearings have any movement or you can get it to rub You have to find the location first of the problem. Then open and inspected real good.When stove is running move the handle for dumping the pot from side to side sometimes that will rattle. Make sure the small holes in the bottom of the pot are clean. There are 4 small holes on each side on the very bottom of the pot. Just some suggestions. If the bearings in the motor are shot the fan could be touching some wear.Good luck

There's actually 8 little holes down there. 4 around the bottom at the front side and 4 along the bottom of the slanted part.
If the dump door is hanging down too far, it could also be causing the howling and result in a lazy flame.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Thanks to everyone for the input so far. Sooner or later we'll find it and it'll turn out to be some silly thing and we'll go, "oh, yah, for pete's sake shoulda thought of that."

I tried looking up a phone # for Quadra Fire and can't find anything. Crawled all over their website and nothing. They keep saying to go to your dealer. Phooey. Does anyone have a number where I can reach Quadra Fire technical support ??

Thanks

Lar.

Quad, like most manufacturers, won't talk to you. It REALLY sucks when your dealer either goes out of business or doesn't know his a$$ from a hole in the ground. Quad is only hurting themselves with their attitude problems. The heck with the customer is their motto.

 

[DexterDay]

If the stove is Less than 2 years old, then the motor may be covered under warranty (2 yrs on electrical).

Good luck talking to Quad...... Contact.your dealer if its under 2 yrs. Could be something they have seen /heard before?