Screwed up -- you're right need rear vent stove ideas

[mj5001]

Ok, I know you guys are sick of me but I'm man enough to admit I fu$$ed up. I'm like that sometimes (as in there must be a workaround).

To refresh your memory photo is attached of the disaster.

SO --

Need a new stove and trying to avoid an insert, would appreciate your recommendations.

** The distance between the back of the said new stove and the center of the chimney pipe adapter is 18".
** That chimney pipe center is 38" (bottom of adapter) from the floor (floor where the stove will sit).

So, based on that, do you think I can get good draw out of a rear vent stove? (chimney is in a single story ranch, stainless steel liner and well insulated). Obviously, I'll have to come out of rear vent for 18" into a 90 degree elbow and up.

Also was looking at the Osburn 1100 which has a 45 degree outlet but the stove is on the small side.

Seems the rear vent stoves I'm seeing are the more "classic" variety like vermont castings and the Jotul 118 and that doesn't bother me but looking for an EPA stove.

Actually, I would like a more "artsy" looking stove but want to keep it under 1500 bucks. The 118 actaully appeals to me but have no experience with it. (Did have a Valco years ago with a secondary combustion chamber and really liked it).

Any ideas ?

And you're welcome to give me a hard time for my previous jibber jabber.

 

[begreen]

The Buck 261 is a rear-exit, steel stove that could handle this setup. If you can keep a steepish pitch on the horiz. run then there are a number of other cast iron stoves that would work. But getting down to EPA and $1500 just killed all but the smaller stoves. How large an area is being heated?

 

[dmmoss51]

MJ - I read through your other thread as well.

Question that I didn't see answered, unless I missed it, was how tall is your chimney? Seems like it may be even easier to increase your chimney height with the current setup than do a whole new deal??

Also you mentioned that you chimney was fully lined, but the picture of your chimney cap (realize its not YOUR cap, but an example of style) shows a square cap that normally goes on a massonry flue, so does your liner actually go all the way up and out the top of your chimney?? Or does it just empty out into your chimney a few feet up from the adaptor.

I don't want to throw water on your fire, but if you're having draft issues, the chimney is probably the culprit and a new stove will not solve it.

I get where you're going with the two-45s and that should help but I am wondering if you don't have a larger issue...

Hope that gives you some ideas and some help!

 

[begreen]

The Osburn 1100 is an insert. It is not for use outside of a fireplace. You might check on the Avalon Rainier-45 to see if you can purchase it with legs. But dmmoss51 is correct. If the chimney is part of the issue you may still be swimming upstream against the current. (Scratch this idea, the chimney is a big part of the problem.)

From the first thread:

fireplace is in the center of the house about 13' 8" to the top of the chimney, which will have new 6" flex liner (already bought off craigs list for 60 bucks !)

As I said in the first posting, an insert is the best possible choice here having the greatest chance of success. Given the short chimney I would put in a PE Super insert. It projects nicely into the room and is a good convective heater even with the blower off. Or consider a Regency Hearth Heater or a Hearthstone Homestead.

 

[dmmoss51]

Actually it looks like th Osburn 1100 is a free stander that could be used as an insert...


(broken link removed to http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/hearth.php?item=Osburn1100)

But still not convinced a new stove will solve chimney draft issues, two 45s might improve situation but may not solve situation.

 

[begreen]

You're right, it's like a smaller Rainier-45. I checked Woodland direct, but they list it as an insert. Regardless, with a short chimney, horiz. run and a 90 deg turn, this thing is going to draft poorly. Straight up from an easy breathing insert is a much better solution.

 

[mj5001]

The Osburn is actually close to the same size of my current Drolet Eldorado and can be had freestanding. The chimney has the liner all the way up to the cap -- single story ranch as mentioned. Heritage? Hudson River are some other names I've seen.

Hate to sound all over the place but what is the deal with Jotul 118 and those copies? Worth looking at?

 

[mj5001]

You're right, it's like a smaller Rainier-45. I checked Woodland direct, but they list it as an insert. Regardless, with a short chimney, horiz. run and a 90 deg turn, this thing is going to draft poorly. Straight up from an easy breathing insert is a much better solution.

even an 18" horizontal run?

 

[begreen]

The older F118 was a decent heater. The F118CB is not the same animal. Early releases had problems with the secondary rack warping and didn't seem to heat as well. We haven't had anyone post about a new one in quite a while. Skip the Taiwan copies, but keep your eye out for a larger Lange too.

 

[begreen]

even an 18" horizontal run?

Each mentioned item is adding resistance to the smoke path. Modern stoves need sufficient draft to pull the air through their secondary manifold. Some stoves need more than others. With poor draft an EPA stove heats poorly because the secondary burn is weak or nonexistent. You are starting out at a disadvantage with a shorter chimney. Adding 90 deg turns and a horiz. run is just adding insult to injury.

Get a decent sized, easy breathing insert that has good hearth projection and be happy.

 

[mj5001]

How much is the Buck 261? Can't find pricing on it.

 

[begreen]

I think they are close to 2 grand, but give Obidiah's a call. I could be off. 1-800-968-8604

 

[mj5001]

Don't all newer stoves have to be EPA? So, if I don't concern myself with that -- then any models come to mind that may work? Besides the 261?

 

[mj5001]

I wouldn't mind an insert IF I could find some that don't protrude that much or not at all (complete flush would be nice) -- know that sounds silly but I hate the way the stove sticks out so much and honestly most of the stove "surrounds" I see look like crap. (lot's of corny gold or designs etc)

 

[begreen]

Don't all newer stoves have to be EPA? So, if I don't concern myself with that -- then any models come to mind that may work? Besides the 261?

There are 35:1 stoves on the market that are epa exceptions. They are often the cheapest stoves and can be of dubious quality. When you inquired about the F118 it was unclear if you were looking at craigslist stoves or new ones. In the Jotul line their EPA stoves have CB, like F118CB after the model to indicate clean burning.

 

[mellow]

See if this seller still has his 261, good price for brand new one: (broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUCK-STOVE-MODEL-261-FREE-STANDING-OR-INSERT-WOOD-STOVE-/190957276110?)

 

[begreen]

I wouldn't mind an insert IF I could find some that don't protrude that much or not at all (complete flush would be nice) -- know that sounds silly but I hate the way the stove sticks out so much and honestly most of the stove "surrounds" I see look like crap. (lot's of corny gold or designs etc)

Right now the stove is protruding completely into the room. To be honest it doesn't look great at all. If you want good heating, especially during power outages, the protrusion works much better at convecting heat without the blower. But there are totally flush inserts on the market if that is what you like. Take a look at the Osburn Matrix and the Regency Alterra for examples.

 

[begreen]

See if this seller still has his 261, good price for brand new one: (broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUCK-STOVE-MODEL-261-FREE-STANDING-OR-INSERT-WOOD-STOVE-/190957276110?)

Nice find mellow.

 

[mj5001]

I see you have a Jotul 602. Could it do an 18" horizontal run with a rear vent?

I may decide to give up on using a wood stove as a primary heat source and go for a more supplementary (below 20 F) approach. I do love the looks of the Jotul stoves and that 602 would actually be kind of cool if it would draw.

 

[mj5001]

Actually with a 602 I bet i could get a good up angle to the chimney which is 38 - 40 " from the floor?

 

[begreen]

I have an older pre-EPA F602. It is a small stove with 2-3 hr burn time. This is a space heater not a house heater. Is that what you want?

 

[dmmoss51]

How about Increasing your chimney height and seeing if that helps your true problem before you buy a new stove?

 

[mj5001]

I have an older pre-EPA F602. It is a small stove with 2-3 hr burn time. This is a space heater not a house heater. Is that what you want?

guess not -- suppose I'll start looking at inserts.
my chimney is brick, don't want anything coming out of the top of it -- has to be at least 25' as is.

 

[dmmoss51]

OK so assuming your Chimney is tall enough to provide the draft needed... when was the last time it was cleaned? Have you had a brush down it to make sure it's not gummed up.

Is it taller than nearby trees?

It seems like you have a growing list of "don't wants" and I'm afraid you're still going to be unhappy with your results.

 

[begreen]

At 14' the chimney is already on the short side. Be sure you read the stove/insert requirements. Many require a 15-16ft chimney.