Seasoning and Moisture Content.

[clemsonfor]

I have been here a few weeks i guess. I have read several posts referring to moisture content of wood that you want to burn or the "target area". What would this be for your red and white oak, say white oak and southern or northern Red? And how many years do you season it?

I just got my moisture meter fresh off the plane from Hong Kong yesterday. I was splitting some of my stuff to see what i have and was supprised. Im not ahead of the game here as this is my second year heating with wood. But i have some stuff that was waste wood on one of my logging operations cut in June last year and cut, spit and stacked a month later by me. When i made a fresh split on it (these are big splits) it was reading say 17-19%. I have some in the pile ahead of this to burn that is closer to 15% and more that i cut about 2 months ago that is in the 19% on big splits. The stuff i have that i have been saving just cause is 2+ years old, red oak mostly and its right around 10%. I keep this pile as its a bit smaller than i like to burn (i take a piece every so often to start a fire with, i split it 4-6 times into kindling) and its in the back of my open shed and acts like a back wall on the awfull neighbor side.

Oh i did cut some green wood a few days ago that was just cut within the last month or so and it read 35% or so, is my meter off?

What are your thoughts on this wood? I think that it looks like in my area 1 year is about all thats needed for good moisture content, but 2 is optimal! Also most wood i cut is from a tree that died that year (maybe year before) or is dieing so i guess the moisture content is not as high to start.

 

[basswidow]

Your meter sounds alright. In SC it gets HOT and it probably only takes oak 1 year, unlike the 2 + years it takes us up north.

20 % or less is a good number. Sounds like you've got some good wood. The fact that it showed 35 on some green wood - seems like it's working.

The oak you CSS in June was already dead? If it's at 19 or 15 % - man SC is a Kiln.

 

[Kenster]

Sounds like you're on the right track. My first thought was that your meter may be showing on the low side. But, since you checked it on known fresh, green wood and it registered high, you're probably getting a good report from your meter- or at least 'good enough.' Just remember that none of these cheaper meters are extremely accurate but they will give you a good ballpark figure and that's all you really need.

Oak nearly always needs two or more years to get to optimum MC but that varies with weather and climate. Pretty much all I have to burn is Water Oak and Post Oak. Due to our extreme drought; strong, hot, dry winds and over 100 days of temps well over 100 degrees last summer I had oak splits that went from off the meter wet to 17% in about nine months. If your waste wood from June was standing dead or already downed, it would have had a head start on drying. Splitting very small accelerates the drying process, too. Your two year oak should be good now and your meter indicates that this is so.

Wood from a standing dead should be lower than a living tree, especially the upper limbs. You may find that the upper limbs are ready to burn 'right now' while the lower trunk can still be oozing water. I think the ideal time to drop a standing dead is as soon as you realize it's dead. Usually a good sign is that it starts dropping limbs. If you leave it up a long time it can start getting punky and full of ants or other bugs.

You're on the right track, keep building your supply to get three years ahead and you'll never have to worry about moisture content.

 

[clemsonfor]

Your meter sounds alright. In SC it gets HOT and it probably only takes oak 1 year, unlike the 2 + years it takes us up north.

20 % or less is a good number. Sounds like you've got some good wood. The fact that it showed 35 on some green wood - seems like it's working.

The oak you CSS in June was already dead? If it's at 19 or 15 % - man SC is a Kiln.

The Green wood i tested was cut at some point this fall/winter here at my job. I work for a federal agency. I am a forester for them and my job is timber harvesting operations, so i know where all the wood is at and when i can get it. I buy a $10 permit to stay within the rules to scavenge it off Fed property although honestly most will get burned up in a pile. Anyway the contractor for us cuts trees out of the campground deemed to be hazards. This GREEN wood was a tree removed this year and put in a debris yard for a biannual burn. They set the HW off to the side for folks to get and i got to the pile before some of the contractors who i know are NOT buying permits. But being as i have the keys to the locked gates i just let myself in and dispose of this "debris" for free for the government out of the goodness of my heart!

OK the wood that was cut in April/June and CSS around that time maybe a month later was cut as live trees. They were the tops of Hardwood that was removed in a logging opperation. I got some tops and a few pieces left in a trash pile for my by the logger and i cut some smaller trees that were left along the road in the clearcut, stuff that was no more than say 8"s at the stump.

 

[clemsonfor]

Sounds like you're on the right track. My first thought was that your meter may be showing on the low side. But, since you checked it on known fresh, green wood and it registered high, you're probably getting a good report from your meter- or at least 'good enough.' Just remember that none of these cheaper meters are extremely accurate but they will give you a good ballpark figure and that's all you really need.

Oak nearly always needs two or more years to get to optimum MC but that varies with weather and climate. Pretty much all I have to burn is Water Oak and Post Oak. Due to our extreme drought; strong, hot, dry winds and over 100 days of temps well over 100 degrees last summer I had oak splits that went from off the meter wet to 17% in about nine months. If your waste wood from June was standing dead or already downed, it would have had a head start on drying. Splitting very small accelerates the drying process, too. Your two year oak should be good now and your meter indicates that this is so.

Wood from a standing dead should be lower than a living tree, especially the upper limbs. You may find that the upper limbs are ready to burn 'right now' while the lower trunk can still be oozing water. I think the ideal time to drop a standing dead is as soon as you realize it's dead. Usually a good sign is that it starts dropping limbs. If you leave it up a long time it can start getting punky and full of ants or other bugs.

You're on the right track, keep building your supply to get three years ahead and you'll never have to worry about moisture content.

In the post above this i explain my line of work, which i should of done as well. Im a forester and i can tell when trees die or are close to dead. It just happens as i scavenge for wood on Govt property (with applicable permits) the only thing you can cut are dead or downed trees. I do take this farther to dieing trees as like i said i am a forester for the Govt on property that i cut on so i cut trees that may have a green limb lower but the tops dead.

 

[pen]

which moisture meter are you working with?

pen

 

[clemsonfor]

"Moisture meter" box said Digital devices on it.

 

[jebatty]

Some meters don't read well over 35%, perhaps because wood that wet is only good for further drying - no likely moisture related purpose at high MC. In other words, MC might be even higher than 35%.

 

[clemsonfor]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230548154831?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Here is the link to it. Was the cheapest i think by about $1 on ebay, plus it used 9v battery and something else looked better than the next cheapest! Had i noticed it was in HongKong i might not have bought it, always takes at least 2 weeks to get your stuff from there!

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Burning 15% Oak in SC seems like . . . OverKill!! That would burst into flames before it hit the coal bed in my boiler.

Yep %-P I'm jealous!

 

[skyline]

It sounds like your MM is working fine. A cheap scale in conjunction will work even better to understand how and when the wood is really drying or not, without the inaccuracies of a MM or the variations on where you place it.

You're likely to get many responses as everybody likes to help out around here. 1 or 2 years will season most firewood size splits (oak an exception) in most parts of the country providing your wood is off the ground (typically done with pallets) and you have sufficient airflow to remove the water vapor as it leaves the wood. You don't need 1+ mph winds, just enough air circulation to prevent humidity rising at the wood surface, so DON'T tarp the sides to the ground. As much moisture comes out of the ground as the wood, so you don't want to trap either around the wood.

The speed at which wood dries is proportional to the difference between it's internal moisture content and the outside Equilibrium Moisture Conditions (EMC). The greater the difference, the faster it dries. The more hours your wood spends far apart, the sooner it will be dry. In SC, the average annual EMC is between 11-15% according to the document below, but will vary much more than that on a daily basis (based on temp and RH). To be clear, you can dry splits in less than 2 months of many wood types under the right conditions but that is often not practical and the general advice of seasoning for "1 or more years, in a single row, top covered only is sound and works in most parts of the country and takes the stress out of having to worry about whether your wood is dry.

Split size and shape makes a huge difference. You can see my drying results here as an example of how wood dries under NW Oregon conditions.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/75789/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/76692/

Your average EMC can be found and calculated using the websites below and a good understanding of how wood dries on the wiki article.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn268.pdf - Equilibrium Moisture Content of Wood in Outdoor Locations in the United States and Worldwide
http://www.dpcalc.org/ - EMC Calculator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying - Wiki article on wood drying

 

[clemsonfor]

Thanks Skyline, im less worried and just more curious. I get very little to no sizzle on the ends of the wood and can almost predict which ones will do it by weight and looking at the ends and the size of hunk. This stuff catchs imediatly when tossed on my coal bed and burns fine.

I am just wondering about it as many of you say dry for 2-3 years. I dont gain much from what i can tell on anything over 1 year it looks like. Maybe im lucky? I stack the wood beside each other stack nect to stack in the shed usually as soon as split, sometimes it sits in a pile for a few days which really lets the moisture out of it.

 

[Kenster]

Thanks Skyline, im less worried and just more curious. I get very little to no sizzle on the ends of the wood and can almost predict which ones will do it by weight and looking at the ends and the size of hunk. This stuff catchs imediatly when tossed on my coal bed and burns fine.

I am just wondering about it as many of you say dry for 2-3 years. I dont gain much from what i can tell on anything over 1 year it looks like. Maybe im lucky? I stack the wood beside each other stack nect to stack in the shed usually as soon as split, sometimes it sits in a pile for a few days which really lets the moisture out of it.

Piles do very little good for drying wood. Only the outside layer is getting much air and sun. Everything else in the pile is worse off than being stacked properly.

Don't get too wrapped up in the amount of time. If you're getting less than 20% in under a year, so be it. I did too with my oak this year in Texas. In general, though, oak takes longer than that.

 

[CTYank]

I'd suggest not getting too hung up on meter readings. IMHO they're useful for calibrating your "internal wood MC sensors." And, they're fun.

I keep various batches of fuelwood separate. One benefit: as desired, you can take a representative sample piece if you think a batch is "dry enough", and see how it burns. That's the only test that really matters. Based on results, promote the batch to "Ready" or "Mo Time" as you see fit.

For me, major final drying happens indoors near stove. Lately, from ~15% outdoors down to low single digits. Burns great, well worth it.

K.I.S.S. works.

 

[basswidow]

I think 1 year for oak in the deep south heat is entirely understandable. Tree tops makes sence too. You can easily for go the 2 -3 year season if you're getting good readings.

Lucky..... You got that right. You've got the right job for a wood burner!

 

[clemsonfor]

Took some more readings yesterday. Got the trunk off the load of green i got the other day. Even in my short bed ranger with a toolbox it only filled up one row with double stacked rounds, so i went over to cut on the pine that was dumped at the same time oven in the burn area. It was fresh kill dead standing pine bark just slipping. I finished the truck load out with this. I have never really burned pine before as the old wives tale about it creosoting up the chimney as well as if im cutting i may as well get oak as its better. Anyway i wasnt gonna drive home with 1/3 load of wood so i cut enough pine to fill my truck up.

MC % reading were 40% on the fresh cuts of the oak (water oak) that i made with my saw and the pine was reading anywhere from 35%-40% depending on the size and the piece i tested.

 

[clemsonfor]

Even though i said some of this wood cut this past summer that is "ready" is tops there are still pieces that were 10-12" in diameter prior to splitting.

 

[Kenster]

I love water oak. The tops dry relatively quickly and the trunks split so easily with that nice straight grain. I've taken down water oaks that were so dead the tops had all fallen off but the trunk still oozed water. I was burning the top branches several months later but the trunk splits needed at least two years. EXCEPT for this past summer when Texas was a kiln and my winter cut oak was showing 17% by late August.

I used to shy off of pine until I got educated on the forum. Neighbor down the road had a dead pine down in her yard for a couple of years. Just the trunk. I finally offered to remove it for her. I bucked it, brought it home and split it. It was already about 10%. I used the big splits for cold starts at the bottom of my "top down" burn stack.
I mix smaller pine pieces with small to medium oak for the next couple of layers. Within ten minutes I have a roaring fire and a stove top temp approaching 700 degrees.

Dry pine is great to get the fire started again in the morning. Just toss a couple of medium splits on the coals and you're back in business.

Get your fresh cut pine split and stacked right away and give it at least a year before burning. I'm sure you'll like it.

Re: your larger top branches... Even the large top branches will be dryer than the trunk and be burnable much sooner.

 

[clemsonfor]

I love water oak. The tops dry relatively quickly and the trunks split so easily with that nice straight grain. I've taken down water oaks that were so dead the tops had all fallen off but the trunk still oozed water. I was burning the top branches several months later but the trunk splits needed at least two years. EXCEPT for this past summer when Texas was a kiln and my winter cut oak was showing 17% by late August.

I used to shy off of pine until I got educated on the forum. Neighbor down the road had a dead pine down in her yard for a couple of years. Just the trunk. I finally offered to remove it for her. I bucked it, brought it home and split it. It was already about 10%. I used the big splits for cold starts at the bottom of my "top down" burn stack.
I mix smaller pine pieces with small to medium oak for the next couple of layers. Within ten minutes I have a roaring fire and a stove top temp approaching 700 degrees.

Dry pine is great to get the fire started again in the morning. Just toss a couple of medium splits on the coals and you're back in business.

Get your fresh cut pine split and stacked right away and give it at least a year before burning. I'm sure you'll like it.

Re: your larger top branches... Even the large top branches will be dryer than the trunk and be burnable much sooner.

I asked about pine b/c we have cut as of right now all the easy wood in our honey hole, but we have old Pine and its so stressed right now that its dieing left and right so its all over beside and in the road.

The Tops that i cut out of those trees this summer were Southern Red oak i beleive, only had the bark. The Green stuff i cut this week was water oak.

 

[pyper]

I live north of I-85 from you, in Oconee County.

I've had 4 inch pecan splits for two years now, and some of them are still near 20%.

The way we get condensation every night and nearly an inch of rain a week, it is difficult to season wood. In fact, from my experience, it will rot before it drys, unless you keep it off the ground and cover it.

Your experiences seem to match up with mine, so I think that's just what we have to work with. I have some wood I've brought into my basement. I expect it will dry out more than wood left outside, because I run a de-humidifier in the summer, which makes a huge difference.

 

[clemsonfor]

I live north of I-85 from you, in Oconee County.

I've had 4 inch pecan splits for two years now, and some of them are still near 20%.

The way we get condensation every night and nearly an inch of rain a week, it is difficult to season wood. In fact, from my experience, it will rot before it drys, unless you keep it off the ground and cover it.

Your experiences seem to match up with mine, so I think that's just what we have to work with. I have some wood I've brought into my basement. I expect it will dry out more than wood left outside, because I run a de-humidifier in the summer, which makes a huge difference.

Got a buddy that lives in Long creek.

Anyway i have a shed that i keep my wood in, so unless its a terrible Dew i dont get wet, and unless it blows rain my wood dosent get wet, except for the top and ends of the outside piles. I have an open sided woodshed.

Also i have no basement, but i also am not bringing in more than say a day or two of wood in the house. I have seen Termites in wood that had a doady spot in the center that i would not have thought would have had them. But i can pretty much see that a piece will have termites in it and my wood is up on 4x4s stacked off ground under the shed, unlikely termites to be in it after a year. But the piles always have powderpost beetles or something in them as i always ahve piles of fine sawdust in the pile from where they munching on my wood. I dont want those little bugger loose in my house.

 

[clemsonfor]

Went out to manage the wood pile a bit. The ones i said were 20% from this summer are closer to 25-27%, i must have had a "good" piece that i selected, was thinking it was really low but still should burn well, after all i have about a face cord to go through before i get to that stack.