Seeking Stove Size Suggestions - Considering replacement of 1984 Jotul spin draft 8

[Tobin]

I've been heating with a Jotul spin draft 8 for many years, and it's been a really great stove. I'm looking into more fuel efficient options, and I would like slightly more heat output. It's size currently fits our needs 95% of the time. I see square foot and BTU information for the later Jotul Series 8, but haven't been able to find much information on the older first generation stove. The heating space is kind of unusual. The stove and a Jotul C350 fireplace insert are located in a basement. I'm located in Wisconsin at about 1,300 elevation and on top of a hill. (Strong draft) House construction is all masonry and it's 101 years old. Basement exterior walls have some interior insulation on the north and east sides. The south and west sides are garages and storage rooms that are not regularly heated but generally maintain around 40-50 degrees. the basement is long and narrow, (80' x 20') and the room where the stove is located is 20' x 20' with a 10' ceiling. The adjacent room where the fireplace is located has an 8' ceiling, and there is a 4' wide doorway connecting the rooms. Stairway to the first floor is on the far east side of the house, and opposite the wood stove room.

General info

-Heating 3,200 Sq.Ft. total (1,600 basement, 1,600 first floor)
-25' x 7" insulated stainless steel woodstove chimney is inside an 11" square masonry flue, and not on an exterior wall.
-Current stove sits on an elevated concrete corner pad which extends 27" from the corner of the chimney. I could poor more concrete if the perfect stove needs more depth. Original stove was a Royal Oak potbelly which I still have sitting in a garage as decoration.
-Two basement walls are very thick limestone, and some other walls are ceramic coated clay block, or 11" thick cement block.
-Wood stove is used every day, but is not run overnight. I may consider running a new stove overnight.
-Current connector pipe is 7" single wall
-No clearance to combustibles concerns
-Other heat source is oil burning hydronic boiler (adding outdoor wood boiler would be complicated)

Some of the new stoves I'm considering (Tax credit would be nice, but I'm not opposed to less then 75% efficiency if that stove is the best fit)

-Jotul F55 V2 (May be too large and make 20'x20' room uncomfortable?
-Jotul F45 (Too long for current raised hearth)
-PE Alderla T4,5,or 6
-Morso 7110B (A favorite, but may be too small)
-Lopi Rockport
-BK Ashford 20
-Woodstock Progress or Ideal Steel Hybrid

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or feedback. Thanks!

​

 

[Tobin]

 

[begreen]

How is the heat getting from the basement to the first floor? The stairwell is not shown. How hot does the basement get in order for it to be 70º upstairs?

Is a stove on the 1st floor possible? That would work better without overwhelming the basement.

 

[Tobin]

We leave the door open for the stairwell to the upstairs and sometimes use a fan to circulate heat. Stairs are located on far east end of building, or left side of drawing. We spend the majority of our time in the basement during the winter, and it’s never 70 upstairs during the winter. We keep the boiler thermostat at 65-67 and it doesn’t run that often after both fires have been going for a few hours.

A wood burner upstairs would require a new chimney and there’s not a good place to build a new hearth. I have a large indoor wood storage room that’s very close to the fireplace, and getting firewood upstairs would also be complicated.

Ultimately, I would be quite happy with a new stove that performs exactly the same as the vintage 8 but uses less wood. If heat output data was simple and 1-10 and the 8 was ranked number 8, I would buy a 9 if it was as easy to control and throttle down on warmer days.

 

[bigealta]

Does the jotul 8 ever overheat the room? like 80F or more?

 

[bigealta]

Maybe a used jotul f500, one made before the new f500v3 series.

 

[Tobin]

Does the jotul 8 ever overheat the room? like 80F or more?

If outdoor temp is 0f or warmer, it is fairly easy over heat the room without over firing. The 8 is very controllable, and with different loads and different species of wood it’s comfortable to run on low when it’s 40 degrees outside and still maintain a fairly clean flue. With a stove top temp of 700, the room is probably 70f when it’s -30 degrees outside.

 

[Tobin]

Maybe a used jotul f500, one made before the new f500v3 series.

Used Jotul seem to sell instantly around here, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a F500 pop up. I reached out to a guy last spring that had a nice 3CB for cheap, and he said a guy loaded it up 10 minutes after he listed it on CL. That one may have been too small but it was a good value so I would have bought it to try.

I looked at a new F500 V3 at a dealer on Friday, but it’s not high on my list if I go with a new cat stove. They don’t normally stock the F55 which is what I was hoping to look at, but suspect will be too large. Another dealer that is 2 hours away does have a F55 in stock.

 

[begreen]

If looking at used, the Jotul 8 was replaced by the F400 Castine. In new, go for the smaller F45, the F55 is about twice the fuel capacity of your Jotul 8.

 

[Tobin]

If looking at used, the Jotul 8 was replaced by the F400 Castine. In new, go for the smaller F45, the F55 is about twice the fuel capacity of your Jotul 8.

Good to know, thanks. If the F400 was replacement for the 8, at least there’s some output specs on that one that I can use as a guide . The F45 won’t fit the current hearth depth.

 

[EbS-P]

Check out the Drolet products. Here is the list that qualify for tax credit. (broken link removed to https://www.drolet.ca/file/Certificat%20Tax%20Credit%20Drolet%202023-2032%20signed.pdf)

I have an F400 and a Drolet 1800 insert. The 1800i is a good heater (and with a damper ) very clean burning with more of an output range than the F400. The larger fire box is really nice. Once hot and reloaded loaded N/S I can get a 12 hour burn on low not much heat the last few hours but plenty of coals for a re light.

Many of Drolet’s different models share the same firebox. They are definitely value oriented and don’t look as good as the Jotuls.

If I had to choose the perfect stove based on 70% function 30% looks it would be the PE T5.

 

[Tobin]

Check out the Drolet products. Here is the list that qualify for tax credit. (broken link removed to https://www.drolet.ca/file/Certificat%20Tax%20Credit%20Drolet%202023-2032%20signed.pdf)

I have an F400 and a Drolet 1800 insert. The 1800i is a good heater (and with a damper ) very clean burning with more of an output range than the F400. The larger fire box is really nice. Once hot and reloaded loaded N/S I can get a 12 hour burn on low not much heat the last few hours but plenty of coals for a re light.

Many of Drolet’s different models share the same firebox. They are definitely value oriented and don’t look as good as the Jotuls.

If I had to choose the perfect stove based on 70% function 30% looks it would be the PE T5.

Thank you for the feedback, and I wasn't looking at Drolet yet.

The PE T5 is high on my list. Unfortunately, it's probably too deep for my hearth which was originally designed for a round potbelly. I'd prefer a larger firebox than the T4.

 

[begreen]

Most of the options suggested just need ember protection. This can be just a sheet of metal.
What is the current hearth depth? If you can post a picture of the hearth it will be easier to make suggestions.

 

[Tobin]

No clearance to combustibles concerns. Walls are masonry and floor is concrete with no carpet near the stove. Picture in the second post is my hearth, and it is 27" from the corner of the chimney to the edge of the hearth. Hearth is a concrete pad and raised 9" from the concrete floor. I could make a form and pour more concrete to make the pad larger if I really liked a stove that needed more room.

 

[EbS-P]

No clearance to combustibles concerns. Walls are masonry and floor is concrete with no carpet near the stove. Picture in the second post is my hearth, and it is 27" from the corner of the chimney to the edge of the hearth. Hearth is a concrete pad and raised 9" from the concrete floor. I could make a form and pour more concrete to make the pad larger if I really liked a stove that needed more room.

or just take break it it out. If it was poured after the floor. I guess it might depend on the height of the new stove.

 

[begreen]

The picture is too close. We need a shot back a bit so that we can visualize what a larger stove would look like there and what hearth extension it might need. The hearth extension can be at floor level. it doesn't need to be at the current hearth height. What are the full dimensions of the hearth? Is it square in front? A sketch will help.

 

[Tobin]

It beleive that the masonry chimney is also sitting on the raised pad, and it looks like the floor may have been poured around it. Path of least resistance would be pouring more raised pad if needed.

So I thought I found the one after seeing the Drolet Cape Town 1800 iron stove. Looks like a much different design than the steel Drolet 1800 though, and I don't like the thought of expensive formed vermiculite firebox panels. Looks like that model is imported from Belgium and I can't find a single review. Tech support said life expectancy of upper panels is 3-5 years with regular use and they have a two year warranty. It's just as expensive as proven / low maintenance stoves, so now it's going lower on my list.

 

[Tobin]

The picture is too close. We need a shot back a bit so that we can visualize what a larger stove would look like there and what hearth extension it might need. The hearth extension can be at floor level. it doesn't need to be at the current hearth height. What are the full dimensions of the hearth? Is it square in front? A sketch will help.

Sorry, that is a lousy picture but it's all I have at the moment. Here's a crude sketch of the raised hearth pad. (9" off the ground) the floor surrounding the raised hearth pad is painted concrete. Chimney is in the corner, and center of connector pipe inlet is 57" above the pad. The legs of the Jotul 8 are currently 1" from the edge of the raised pad, and the back of the stove is about 10" from the chimney.

 

[begreen]

Dovre makes excellent stoves but you really want to be sure about getting parts in the future unless you cut your own baffle. For this reason I would probably pass on it.

The drawing is great. That helps a lot. The F400 is 23 1/4" deep to the ash lip and 25 3/4" wide. If the floor is painted concrete then it is non-combustible and no hearth extension is required.

The PE Vista is about 17 1/2" deep, not including the ashlip, and 25 3/4" wide. The Alderlea T4 is a bit bulkier with its cast iron jacket. It's 27 3/4" wide and 22 3/4" deep.

 

[EbS-P]

It beleive that the masonry chimney is also sitting on the raised pad, and it looks like the floor may have been poured around it. Path of least resistance would be pouring more raised pad if needed.

So I thought I found the one after seeing the Drolet Cape Town 1800 iron stove. Looks like a much different design than the steel Drolet 1800 though, and I don't like the thought of expensive formed vermiculite firebox panels. Looks like that model is imported from Belgium and I can't find a single review. Tech support said life expectancy of upper panels is 3-5 years with regular use and they have a two year warranty. It's just as expensive as proven / low maintenance stoves, so now it's going lower on my list.

View attachment 314804

I had similar thoughts about the Cape Town. An F45 or F50 or T5 just makes more sense.

 

[Tobin]

The floor material after the hearth is just painted cement. There's also an old piece of bronze sheet metal that looks like it was a door kick plate sitting on the cement floor in front of the stove.

Clearance to combustibles really isn't an issue anywhere, but keeping the stove legs on the oddly shaped raised hearth would be an issue for some models. For the perfect stove, I would make the raised hearth larger by pouring more concrete.

 

[begreen]

The PE Vista and Alderlea T4 have roughly the same capacity as the F400. It also looks like an E/W loading 1.5 to 1.8 cu ft Drolet would fit there.

 

[Tobin]

A number of new options would open if I changed the orientation of the stove so the the back was towards the south wall. That would also make for very easy connector piping.

Does anyone happen to have a measurement for the distance from the front leg of a T5 to the back? The overall length with the ash lip is listed as 28.5”.

If the T5 runs well with lighter loads, that could be the answer. When it’s -30 outside, I’m fine with overheating that room a little.

 

[bcrtops]

28.5 - 2.5 = 26"
The legs sit 2.5" behind the apex of the curvature of the ash lip.

 

[Tobin]

28.5 - 2.5 = 26"
The legs sit 2.5" behind the apex of the curvature of the ash lip.

Thank you! Any chance you could send me the measurement for the rear edge of flue exit to the back of the stove?

PE specs that the rear would need to be 5" from combustibles with double wall, and nothing near the hearth is combustible. There is an iron sewer vent pipe 7" west from the raised hearth, but I could fabricate a shield for that if heat disturbed the lead connection. Looks like this may be a viable option. With the back facing south and the stove was centered on the 31" hearth width, I'd have 29" of length to work with for the legs to sit on.