Setting the pyro in me free.

[Rockey]

This time of year I get the itch to burn something fierce, so its got me thinking lately. We heated our last house for 10 years with an insert and we enjoyed the ambience as much as the heat from the insert. This will be the third winter in our new house and although I still get to burn it just isnt the same feeding a boiler compared to sitting next to an insert. I decided here lately that I am going to put an insert in the hearth downstairs so we can get back to enjoying a fire. I'm pretty sure Im going with a Kuuma Sequoia and we are hoping it will be enough during the shoulder season to do most of the heating. Then during the really cold periods we can use the boiler. In fact anytime it gets very far below freezing Ill have to use the boiler to keep it from freezing up.

Im hoping it cures the itch. It does become a pain going outside to feed the fire but the even heat throughout the house it much nicer than what a single insert can offer. The mess is a second consideration but Im willing to deal with it since it will be confined to the downstairs. It will be a tight fit as the opening in the hearth downstairs barely meets the clearances. Im concerned at how much it narrows down as it goes in. This can be opened up for clearance concerns right? The rep at Kuuma thought I would be ok but I figured Id make sure. Are there any other large inserts I should consider? We definitely want a catalytic for long burn times.

 

[webby3650]

I think the sequoia would be a solid choice. Since it’s a basement, is it solid masonry around the firebox? If not then removing firebrick could be an issue.

The 8” liner can be pretty difficult to get lined up to the insert. Find out where the flue collar sits and see how it lines up with top of your firebox. Obviously you are going to need to open it up, but make sure there’s not a double lintel. This is common in a basement fireplace, it’s hard to dodge with a tall insert, even more so with an 8” liner.

 

[Rockey]

Yes, it is solid masonry around the firebox. Im not quite sure about a double lintel but the opening is arched so Im hoping this helps me dodge a bullet to help line everything up.

 

[Rockey]

Ok, so I pulled the trigger today on the Sequoia. Added the pewter trim and door with sunburst option and blower. I debated on the OAK but two reasons deterred me. One is the fact that I have no idea how to get a duct through my hearth and the second being the effects wouldnt be that great in my house. The insert should be here about midweek next week. So that gives me time to prepare for the install and run the liner down the chimbly.

Im going to add the before picture so we can see how it looks before and after the install. Hopefully I wont have too much trouble with the install. Im going to get on the roof tomorrow to measure the length which has me concerned. Im guessing between 35-40 ft which makes me wonder if its going to be difficult to choke it back for longer burn times. Maybe a damper should be a consideration?

 

[webby3650]

How will you put a damper on an insert?
Beautiful place!

 

[Rockey]

How will you put a damper on an insert?
Beautiful place!

No idea. Maybe line it up so that the damper lever will fit through the existing hole. On second thought it would probably be easier choking it back a little on the intake side. Im betting this may not be the preferred way of doing it though.

 

[webby3650]

Did you talk to mark or Jason at Kuma about your situation before you ordered it?

 

[Rockey]

I talked to Jason a couple of days ago but didnt think about it at that time. When I placed the order today with Jack he said he has been using the Sequoia for about 15 years. I was surprised to hear that this has been in production for that long. in some ways that could be good though since they would have time to work out any issues, if there were any. Regardless the issue didnt come up today either. He said to call back if I needed any help so I'll probably call tomorrow and run it up the flagpole.

 

[Rockey]

Ok so Im getting closer to installing the Kuma. We test fit the insert and had to do some clearancing on the firebrick and removed the damper. I ordered a 15 deg offset appliance adapter to help out. That and the 316ti liner with chimney cap should be here about midweek. Oh and I bought a cone to help pull the liner up the chimney. Now for the real work - getting the liner in. I have a feeling this is going to be decent undertaking. I have to go past two offsets to get around the fireplace on the first floor. The tiles inside are smooth and the mortar joints arent messy and obstructive but I do have to go 35+ feet through 10X10 clay with an 8" liner. This could be similar to the time I first bought diapers for my daughter and took the size advertisement at face value. Well i found out the hard way, you cannot actually fit 8-12# of crap into a single diaper.

Ill post pictures of the success. If not, Ill hire someone that does this for a living.

 

[bholler]

Ok so Im getting closer to installing the Kuma. We test fit the insert and had to do some clearancing on the firebrick and removed the damper. I ordered a 15 deg offset appliance adapter to help out. That and the 316ti liner with chimney cap should be here about midweek. Oh and I bought a cone to help pull the liner up the chimney. Now for the real work - getting the liner in. I have a feeling this is going to be decent undertaking. I have to go past two offsets to get around the fireplace on the first floor. The tiles inside are smooth and the mortar joints arent messy and obstructive but I do have to go 35+ feet through 10X10 clay with an 8" liner. This could be similar to the time I first bought diapers for my daughter and took the size advertisement at face value. Well i found out the hard way, you cannot actually fit 8-12# of crap into a single diaper.

Ill post pictures of the success. If not, Ill hire someone that does this for a living.

Are you insulating the liner for your chimbly? Lol

 

[Rockey]

With a beautiful mullet like this you dont have time to go around instigating chimblys

 

[bholler]

With a beautiful mullet like this you dont have time to go around instigating chimblys

View attachment 230940

Lol i had to comment on it. But seriously you are insulating it right?

 

[Rockey]

Ok, so I thought about it but would the insulation really stay on it while pulling it through the offsets? I can just imagine a big disaster when it comes off and crumples up causing a blockage and having to pull it all back out and try again.

I have to admit when I got the damper pulled out and got a flashlight up int here i was amazed at how large of a space the smoke chamber is. i can easily stand up in there and I bet 3-4 more people could join me. I had no idea so much thought went into building a chimney. there is a shelf right before it transitions into the 10X10 liner that might need some work for the liner to make the transition and reduce and restriction. Ill take a picture if this sounds odd.

 

[bholler]

Ok, so I thought about it but would the insulation really stay on it while pulling it through the offsets? I can just imagine a big disaster when it comes off and crumples up causing a blockage and having to pull it all back out and try again.

I have to admit when I got the damper pulled out and got a flashlight up int here i was amazed at how large of a space the smoke chamber is. i can easily stand up in there and I bet 3-4 more people could join me. I had no idea so much thought went into building a chimney. there is a shelf right before it transitions into the 10X10 liner that might need some work for the liner to make the transition and reduce and restriction. Ill take a picture if this sounds odd.

I can tell you from the pictures of your chimney upstairs you absolutly do not have the required 2" of clearance required between the masonry structure and any combustible material. This means by code insulation is required. Also with as much height as you have you will need all the help you can get to maintain temps to the top.

 

[Rockey]

What are my viable options as far as insulating the liner?

 

[bholler]

What are my viable options as far as insulating the liner?

If the offsets are bad or very rough go with pre insulate. But regular wrap would probably be fine.

 

[Rockey]

Help me understand the code. If I burn my fireplace wide open, as hard as I can and I measure every point on the chimney and I can never get them to go above 87 degrees it is 100% by the book. But if I add an insert and I add a liner then I must add insulation to further reduce and heat migration into the chimney structure?

 

[bholler]

Help me understand the code. If I burn my fireplace wide open, as hard as I can and I measure every point on the chimney and I can never get them to go above 87 degrees it is 100% by the book. But if I add an insert and I add a liner then I must add insulation to further reduce and heat migration into the chimney structure?

It is currently 100% not by the book it does not meet code now and is a potential firehazard. And you havnt measured the areas incontact with wood where air movement doesnt cool it. Or measure the peak temp during a chimney fire.

 

[Rockey]

It is currently 100% not by the book it does not meet code now and is a potential firehazard. And you havnt measured the areas incontact with wood where air movement doesnt cool it. Or measure the peak temp during a chimney fire.

Please answer my questions. I truly want to understand the code.

If I burn my fireplace wide open, as hard as I can and I measure every point on the chimney and I can never get them to go above 87 degrees it is 100% by the book. But if I add an insert and I add a liner then I must add insulation to further reduce and heat migration into the chimney structure?

 

[bholler]

Please answer my questions. I truly want to understand the code.

If I burn my fireplace wide open, as hard as I can and I measure every point on the chimney and I can never get them to go above 87 degrees it is 100% by the book. But if I add an insert and I add a liner then I must add insulation to further reduce and heat migration into the chimney structure?

I fully understand your question and answered it. Your chimney currently does not meet code. There is nothing saying you have to bring it up to code as is. But once you change it by installing a stove or insert you need to bring it up to code. You also have not measured temps in the areas that can cause the problems or in chimney fire conditions.

 

[Rockey]

Is there an approved insulation you can add after the liner is installed?

 

[bholler]

Please answer my questions. I truly want to understand the code.

If I burn my fireplace wide open, as hard as I can and I measure every point on the chimney and I can never get them to go above 87 degrees it is 100% by the book. But if I add an insert and I add a liner then I must add insulation to further reduce and heat migration into the chimney structure?

Code requires clearance from the outside of the chimney structure to and combustible materials. For an internal chimney like yours that is 2". External chimneys need 1". This code is there because over years of being heated by the chimney the ignition point can be lowered to the point where it can be ignited by the heat tranfered through the masonry in a chimney fire.

 

[Rockey]

Your chimney currently does not meet code. There is nothing saying you have to bring it up to code as is. But once you change it by installing a stove or insert you need to bring it up to code. You also have not measured temps in the areas that can cause the problems or in chimney fire conditions.

If my chimney currently does not meet code, am I allowed to use it as an open fireplace?

 

[bholler]

Is there an approved insulation you can add after the liner is installed?

Yes if you can make sure you have 1" of that insulation surrounding the liner in all areas. Preinsulated or wrap will be much easier and safer.

 

[bholler]

If my chimney currently does not meet code, am I allowed to use it as an open fireplace?

Yes as i said there is nothing saying you need to bring it up to code unless you change something. But it is not as safe as it should be. There are many chimneys out there built like yours that will never cause a problem. But some do cause fires.