Smoky stove insert, smoke leaks into room...

[stephenm7]

I installed a small wood stove fireplace insert into my existing masonry fireplace. I am having a problem, mainly when the fire is dying down, with smoke somehow leaking into the living room. The fire also does not seem to want to get too hot or big. I will explain my exact situation with my install below...

My masonry chimney has two flue that are approximately 11inx7in on the outside (rectangular), lined with clay tile. When I ordered my insert, I also ordered a 20ft flexible stainless stell insert (not-insulated) to reline one of the flues to utilize as the "new" flue. When I did so, I did not realize how small the actual inside of my existing flue was (dumb overlook on my part). My chimney is approximately 18ft high.

In order to install my liner, I "ovalized" it to fit it into the existing flue, as the diameter was a bit too large to fit down. It was a little difficult to get it all the way down the chimney and I fought it the entire time. I was able to squeeze the liner through the dampener opening, however, could not get it far enough down to connect directly to the insert. So, I bought a couple of "elbow" stove pipe sections (one 90 degree and one approx. 45 degree, which was actually part of a 90 degree). After attaching the liner attachment to the stove opening (which is already at a 45 degree angle) and attaching both "elbows" to that attachment, I was able to attach the liner to the second elbow. I secured all pieces with short metal screws, and added some fire/smoke blocking sealant (fire rated to something like 1300 degrees F. It should also be noted I added a damper "plug" by cutting some sheet metal to size and securing in place around the liner and covering the second flue, adding some of the smoke blocking sealant.

Now, to the problem....I have only burned one small fire. The fire was tough to get going, and never really burned well and got hot. When the fire would die down and smoke inside, it was apparent the smoke also leaked into the room as well. I also saw that some black liquid (maybe from my starter block I used) leaked from the botom of the stove, which I don't know if it has anything to do with the smoke issue. I do not know if the smoke is coming from my stove pipe/liner/flue/connections, or the stove itself. The fire does seem to grow faster with the door slightly ajar....so could this be a chimney issue? The flue, including all pipe, is approximately 20 feet in length, give or take a foot, and has a rain cap on the top, on the roof. Also, the chimney is on an exterior wall of the house (exterior chimney). House was built in 1970.

So, draft problem? Chimney too cold? Chimney/flue not tall enough? Problem with how I connected all my pipe?

Anyone that could help, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[mellow]

You got it, draft issues, you have many things going against you, as you warm up the chimney your draft will improve, insulated liner would help with this since it is an exterior chimney. Ditch the elbows, plus Black pipe is not allowed to be used for an insert install, stainless steel only.

You need a coupler:
(broken image removed)
and more 6" stainless pipe with an appliance adapter:

(broken image removed)

to connect to the insert.

I would have run 5.5" insulated liner down that chimney.

 

[bholler]

Ok could be allot of things first what stove do you have? How tall is the chimney? How much and how did you ovalize the liner? are you sure you didn't kink it when you installed it? and the elbows at the bottom could be a problem as well. Un insulated liner could be the problem. Sorry just saw chimney is 18' that should be ok then

 

[bholler]

Also 1300 degree sealant is not good enough it wont hold up

 

[mellow]

Also, did you cut out your damper and install a block off plate?

 

[bholler]

wow mellow that is an ugly chimney did it have a slammer in it?

 

[stephenm7]

Also 1300 degree sealant is not good enough it wont hold up

The insert is a Century Heating CB00005, purchased from Northen Tool. I ovalized the liner by putting pressure on it with my feet/body weight (I know, not the best way, but it slightly ovalized it, without damaging/cracking/kinking it).

 

[stephenm7]

Also, did you cut out your damper and install a block off plate?

Yes, I removed the damper, and since the liner was slightly ovalized, I was able to squeeze it through the damper frame/opening, with a little tugging and wiggling, without kinking damper. And I installed a block off plate made with sheet metal.

 

[stephenm7]

You got it, draft issues, you have many things going against you, as you warm up the chimney your draft will improve, insulated liner would help with this since it is an exterior chimney. Ditch the elbows, plus Black pipe is not allowed to be used for an insert install, stainless steel only.

You need a coupler:
(broken image removed)
and more 6" stainless pipe with an appliance adapter:

(broken image removed)

to connect to the insert.

I would have run 5.5" insulated liner down that chimney.

So, if I replace the black elbow pipe with a shot section of flexible stainless liner, with the coupler and adapter, will that help? Trying to avoid having to install another new liner, because I will most likely need to have the existing tile liner removed due to the inside being so narrow with that in place, and an insulated liner not fitting down.

 

[bholler]

How much did you ovalize it? because ovalizing liners reduces volume and draft especially if it is not an even oval which is what you get when you ovalize the way you did. Also when i said about kinking it i was referring to when you were trying to force it down the chimney ovalized light wall liners kink pretty easily and if it is kinked it could seriously effect draft. But i have a feeling that your make shift connection with multiple elbows it probably the main culprit. Another thing could be wet wood have you tested your wood and if not how long has it been cut and split?

 

[stephenm7]

How much did you ovalize it? because ovalizing liners reduces volume and draft especially if it is not an even oval which is what you get when you ovalize the way you did. Also when i said about kinking it i was referring to when you were trying to force it down the chimney ovalized light wall liners kink pretty easily and if it is kinked it could seriously effect draft. But i have a feeling that your make shift connection with multiple elbows it probably the main culprit. Another thing could be wet wood have you tested your wood and if not how long has it been cut and split?

The liner is probably approximately 5in on the short side of the oval. And the wood I used has been cut for at least two years, and split for maybe one year.

 

[bholler]

that oval if it is relatively smooth and not kinked anywhere should not be a problem your wood could be depending on the species how small it was split and how and where it was stacked

 

[weatherguy]

What species of wood do you have? Ash and some types of maple will be ok in a year but some not like oak, hickory and sugar maple.
Usually its best to cut a hole through the damper area so the liner fits no problem

 

[stephenm7]

Ok, so I fired it up again tonight. I used Ash as the wood species, split in smaller pieces. The stove fireed up quickly with very minimal smoke. It also burned hot....for a small fire, as this is still my "burn in" period.

However, when checking everything out after it was fully startes, I moved the faceplate out some and noticed there was smoke in the fireplace opening, around the insert. It seemed to be a mixture of smoke and a chemial smell, presumably from tje stove paint curing.

I assume the smoke is coming from my elbows connecting to the liner....? Would simply replacing the elbows with more flexible stainless liner fix the problem? If so, where can I purchase a very short section of flex liner, a coupler and appliance adapter (I do not think the adapter I have is sufficient) at a reasonabke price? I can only find the flex liner in 10 foot and greater lenghts, which is pricey when I only need 2 to 3 feet.

Thanks all!

 

[begreen]

The flue system and stove body will need 2-3 full temp runs at 500+ to bake in the paint. After that there should be no smoke or aroma.

Mild outdoor temps are going to impact draft. You will find that when temps drop below 40F the draft will improve.

 

[stephenm7]

The flue system and stove body will need 2-3 full temp runs at 500+ to bake in the paint. After that there should be no smoke or aroma.

Mild outdoor temps are going to impact draft. You will find that when temps drop below 40F the draft will improve.

So is it possible the smoke isn't actually leaking from my elbow pipes I've connected together? Just all of the paint baking in?

 

[matt1@]

My bet is your sealant that you used is burning off. That stuff will smoke like heck if applied to the pipe or if it gets on there by accident. Ask me how I know

 

[weatherguy]

So is it possible the smoke isn't actually leaking from my elbow pipes I've connected together? Just all of the paint baking in?

Possible

 

[stephenm7]

My bet is your sealant that you used is burning off. That stuff will smoke like heck if applied to the pipe or if it gets on there by accident. Ask me how I know

Oh great. I even have some inside where i connectee them together....what was your solution to getting rid of it? Eventually go away?

 

[begreen]

What was used on the flue pipes as sealant?

 

[stephenm7]

What was used on the flue pipes as sealant?

3M Fire Block sealant, tested up to 1382 degrees F. It is meant for Fireblock and draftstop applications...so it says. And says you can use it on chimnies and fireplaces.

 

[matt1@]

I replaced the pipe that I sealed up (rookie mistake) because it wouldn't stop smoking for several days and I couldn't stand it anymore

 

[matt1@]

Maybe it's not the sealant just and idea

 

[begreen]

First time I have heard of this product. I would watch for the next couple fires. It may be just baking in.

 

[stephenm7]

Maybe it's not the sealant just and idea

Well, it sounds like I'll be replacing the pipe regardless.

So....anyone know of a good place to purchase short sections of SS flex liner?