sorry .... another "pls help me pick my perfect wood stove "

[iloveteeth2]

Sorry to all you folks who are sick and tired of us newbies looking for help. I have tried to read all the reviews to help me but none seem to specifically target my needs. Ok we have a cabin up north in Ontario that is off grid and well insulated. It is an open plan with about 1200 or so square feet with a loft and ceiling fan. We currently have a pellet stove ( came with the cabin) that necessitates us running the generator 24/7 to keep warm. Hoping a wood stove will give us sit beside heat and heat the cabin as the sole source. Selection is limited and I will wait if I get a clear contender from you experienced folk. So we were looking at the T5 PE ( not in stock till Dec)or the Neo 2.5( actually in stock)or the Jotul 500 V3( $ quoted 7800) or the Summit( in stock). Then only thing with the summit was it seemed to not age well in pictures with the steel. So opinions wanted!! Thanks so much.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How is the cabin heated when you aren’t there? Are you walking into a cabin that is well below freezing and will need to heat it up quickly?

Do you have another source of heat in the place?

Do you have a ceiling fan to push heat back down?

Do you have your wood already put up and drying?

 

[iloveteeth2]

How is the cabin heated when you aren’t there? Are you walking into a cabin that is well below freezing and will need to heat it up quickly?

Do you have another source of heat in the place?

Do you have a ceiling fan to push heat back down?

Do you have your wood already put up and drying?

The cabin is not heated when we are not there. This is the first year we have owned and are not sure how much we will be up there in the winter. We envision spending a few weeks to longer when we can in a few years. We do have a ceiling fan to push the heat down ( we have some solar power but not enough to run a pellet stove all day/night) Yes on the wood up and drying ( came with the place- pretty sure they took out a wood stove to put in the pellet stove) The cabin is on an island and insurance is more expensive or not available with a woodstove in place. Hope that gives more perspective.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Ok, so walking into a cold cabin radically changes your requirements. Sizing goes out the window as you’ll want the place heated from the outside temperature to something more comfortable fairly quickly.

My cabin in the Adirondack Mountains is about 500 sq ft and I run a T5 in that. It’d be way undersize in your cabin. Look at the T6. In order to heat the cabin up faster, I turn on some electric heaters and propane. A little 15,000BTU sunflower or 9,000BTU stovetop burners are a welcome addition when it’s really cold to heat the place up quickly. It’s less than enjoyable to sit in a -20C cabin for hours waiting for the stove to start heating the thermal mass so you need to oversize. There is a drawback to having to doing this though. When the weather is cool, but not yet down to freezing, it can be easy to overheat the place. Above 0C I may throw a few pieces of pine on, but it’s often easier to turn on some electric heat. I can do it with the stove, but it’s not as enjoyable for me. 100lb propane tanks can be moved around fairly easily and can provide quick burst of heat and ease cooking.

You’re going to want to order more wood. You’re going to use more than you think warming up that place. Since you’re on an island you’ll have wind stripping heat off the structure.

 

[Ashful]

Old Jotul fan here, they have a long history of beautiful stoves of the highest quality. But I thought they were having some major issues with that new 500, which if true, would be one to avoid, for now.

The PE T5 is a beautiful stove, and by all accounts, head and shoulders above the remaining brands and stoves you have listed, although I’m only relaying my assessment from what others have posted. Moderator @begreen still has or had a T5, maybe he can comment.

 

[iloveteeth2]

I said the same about the T5 vs 6 to my husband!- but he said it was too big and will heat us out from specs. We are going to a showroom today to look at PE and make our final decision. I will let you know and review accordingly. Thanks for all your seasoned advice!!
Lori

 

[Ashful]

T5 is a beautiful stove, and a good performer, you won't find many complaints about them. If you like that look, but are concerned with it being too much power, then you'd also do well to look at the BK Ashford 20 or 30. Similar look to the T5, straddling either side of it's 2.2 cu.ft. size, but the BK's can burn way lower and slower.

There's lots of specmanship happening in stoves, with regard to BTU ratings. Most publish a reasonably accurate max output, but few publish the range or minimum output. So, a good metric for range is to look at cubic footage of firebox and maximum burn time, to get your output range. If one stove (PE T5) has a maximum burn time of 8 hours on 2.2 cubic feet of hardwood (515k BTU), it implies an 8-hour average of 64k BTU/hour. If another stove (BK Ashford 30) has a maximum burn time of 30 hours on the 3 cubic feet of wood, it implies an average 23k BTU/hour.

Of course, you can load smaller amounts of wood (eg. half load), but then your maximum burn time is also half of listed. Caveman math.

 

[stoveliker]

I note that the BK can also run through that load in the 8 hrs, i.e. the top end output is similar.

The caveat is that a BK has a cat. That requires replacing every few years. Given that the stoves mentioned are all non-cat, I guess the OP may prefer a non-cat.

Another caveat is that if you run in this "extended low-BTU" range, there's not much to see in the BK - other than a glowing cat. At "normal" (and high) outputs, there are flames to watch, of course.

 

[Ashful]

All good points. I'm assuming OP isn't looking for a 30 hour stove, but perhaps just concerned about the T5 being a hair too much. My assumption was they may end up running an Ashford at say 50k BTU (to the T5's low end at 64k), where there would be some flame show and 13-14 hour burn time from an Ashford 30.

I run one of my Ashford 30's on two loads per day, and at that 12-hour setting, there is some flame show. Mind you, it's much less than when I run wide-open to rip thru 3 cubic feet in 4 or 6 hours, but still fun to watch. I run my other Ashford 30 on one load per day, with the dial set to 24 hours. Other than some initial flame show in the first hour, this one is just a red glowing box of embers. If you're going for maximum 30 hour burns, then it will be a black box, with only the catalytic combustor glowing up top.

I last replaced both combustors in in April 2018, $200 and a five minute job, although those running softwoods report having to replace as frequently as every 2 years of 24/7 burning 8 months per year.

 

[iloveteeth2]

All good points. I'm assuming OP isn't looking for a 30 hour stove, but perhaps just concerned about the T5 being a hair too much. My assumption was they may end up running an Ashford at say 50k BTU (to the T5's low end at 64k), where there would be some flame show and 13-14 hour burn time from an Ashford 30.

I run one of my Ashford 30's on two loads per day, and at that 12-hour setting, there is some flame show. Mind you, it's much less than when I run wide-open to rip thru 3 cubic feet in 4 or 6 hours, but still fun to watch. I run my other Ashford 30 on one load per day, with the dial set to 24 hours. Other than some initial flame show in the first hour, this one is just a red glowing box of embers. If you're going for maximum 30 hour burns, then it will be a black box, with only the catalytic combustor glowing up top.

I last replaced both combustors in in April 2018, $200 and a five minute job, although those running softwoods report having to replace as frequently as every 2 years of 24/7 burning 8 months per year.

Ashful, all very good points to consider. I think the T5 or Neo 2.6 will give better shoulder season heat and like you, mentioned better show which is important to me as well. Thanks for your thoughtful insight to all that contributed. You are my " phone a friend(s) experts" and a huge help in this decision! I will let you know how it goes!!

 

[Ashful]

No problem. The T5 is a nice stove, if you're sure it's not too much for your space.

I just lit both of my Ashford 30's, as it's rainy and chilly today, and decided to run an experiment based on this conversation. One of these stoves is located in a small addition to our house (i.e. ~1200 sq.ft.), and was stuffed nearly full with medium oak splits + a few smaller maple branches which look like maple. Although I really need very little heat in this small, newer, and well-insulated addition, I decided to do a full load, just to see how a ~30 hour burn might do with it.

Outside temperature forecast is 45F climbing to about 57F over next 24 hours, with a good breeze:




Stove about 75-80% full of wood:


Turned way down to "black box" mode, with 4-year old cat still doing fine:



We will see what happens with the indoor temps, I'll try to post back this evening and tomorrow. With the warm weather and very low burn setting, I may stall this very well-used combustor, we shall see. Turn-down ability is always limited by draft (i.e. outside temperature) and combustor age/condition.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Just a thought and maybe the pros in here can say, but a cast iron stove may take longer to produce heat over a steel welded stove.

 

[Ashful]

Just a thought and maybe the pros in here can say, but a cast iron stove may take longer to produce heat over a steel welded stove.

In theory only. The reality is there's so much energy in a load of wood, and released so quickly during the wide-open start-up phase, that this small difference is quickly overwhelmed.

The bigger difference in felt heat is likely due to radiant vs. convective factors, with the result of convection taking longer to feel than radiation. But even there, with nearly all stoves today having large front glass, there's always a lot of radiation off the front.

The only stove which might be noticeably slower to heat up would be soapstone, but even there I would expect the difference to be measured in minutes on anything with a large front window, not half-hours.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I'm curious as to the difference of convection and radiant.
Well stated though. My cast iron seems to take forever.

 

[begreen]

Do they have a PE Super in stock? That has the same internals as the T5, but with a steel jacket instead of the cast iron. Both are welded steel stoves.

 

[Ashful]

Follow-up to post #11: 6 hours in, addition is up from 68F to 73F and steady. Cat is holding in low active region (~600F), and single wall stove pipe is holding 150F external.

 

[Ashful]

I'm going to move the results over to the all things BK thread in the morning, since it sounds like OP is leaning more toward Neo or T5 anyway. But just to close things out here, a quick status update:

10 hours in, that side of the house is holding 72F and steady and about 1/3 of the wood load is consumed... right on target for 30 hours bur time (esp. considering it wasn't a full load to start). Single wall pipe is around 130F, and cat is just at edge of active/inactive, indicating likely stall if I don't increase air. Warm day on a short chimney means poor draft, and my cat is in it's fifth season, so I was likely pushing things a bit.

Increased air to my usual 24-hour setting, to pull the burn rate and cat temp up a bit, avoiding a stall. Will post these results with an update in the BK thread, in the morning.

 

[Prof]

I'll just speak to the Summit since I own one. The other stoves are likely good heaters--I looked at a couple of them as alternatives myself. The Summit is a heating beast, but can provide a more gentle heat as well--less wood, but still get a good secondary burn. I chose this stove because it is simple and would have a large cooking surface if needed. The flame path of the stove makes the stovetop get to 6-700F--more than enough for Sunday pancakes or morning eggs. In fact I have come somewhat accustomed to cooking meals on it and cook between 2-300 meals on the stove during the year. During the heating season it is just hard for me to turn a burner on when I have ready heat on the stovetop. The top of it does rust a bit--especially since I have mine in my basement. A fire or two in the fall seems to get rid of the rust. I tried cleaning and painting the stove top and I also used stove polish a year or so later. It still rusted, but the rust disappeared after the first couple fires. The sides and front of the stove don't rust. I'm in my seventh year with the stove and would replace it with a new summit of I needed to. I suspect I won't need to for some time to come.

BTW, this weekend, I will make chicken and beef stock on the top of the stove (boil bones for 12 or so hours). I will also cook pancakes and bacon for the family in the morning. The stove is a heating and cooking beast.