Speak up or hold your peace.

[iluvpikn]

So my house construction is under way. It will be 1232 square feet, with the "basement" above grade (mostly) framed in wood. There will be no concrete walls, only a concrete floor. The basement will be used as living space, so effectively I will have 2464 square feet.

The wood stove will be almost dead centre of the house, in the basement. It will be located right beside the stairs, which go up a few steps to a landing, turn with a few more steps to another landing, turn and go the rest of the way up. In other words, there will be a nice big opening for warm air to rise up to the main level.

I am planning on a Pacific Energy Super 27.

My question is whether you think the stove will be large enough to heat the house well. I plan to heat with wood as much as possible, and only have the furnace for emergency. I am not looking for recommendations on other stoves, just whether the stove will be of sufficient size.

Thanks.

 

[jillybeansisme]

The Super 27 is what I am getting. . I have a stairwell from the garage to the living level -- that stairwell goes straight up 12? steps to a landing, turns, goes up a few more steps to the hall that opens to the living room. The PES27 will be installed in the far corner of the living room, which is the center of the house on the living level. There is an arch to another hall that holds two bedrooms on one side and a 9' opening to the kitchen which 90 deg turns to the dining area which is open to the playroom (behind the living room) which has a stairwell up to a loft. My house in total is 2600SF, including stairwells. The PES27 was recommended to me by ChimneySweeponline who is a highly reputable dealer (and no, I did not buy from him). I told him that I did not want to be roasted out of my living room but don't mind if the back stairwell and laundry room are cooler and that I expect to be baking for several hours almost every night.

Heat rises. I can't tell you how mine works yet because I'm not living there yet; however, I'm expecting to be fine. You wouldn't want it any smaller and you might want to use a fan to blow the air up the stairwell, but I think you'll be okay unless you want to be roasted. It is rated for up to 2000SF and yes, you are in a larger home. My biggest concern would be the concrete floor absorbing much of the heat, which makes me think raised hearth and the fan.

I was told that the PES27 is an easy to use stove, which makes me happy. Now PE does have a larger one (several larger ones actually), which you might want to look at (Spectrum, I believe) that is recommended for 2500SF.

 

[prezes13]

My fire box is 2.2cf it heats the house nicely but it's just one floor roughly 1200sf. If I was you I would look for something with at least 3cf fire box.

 

[jeff_t]

Unless you are going all out on insulation and air sealing, I think the 27 is too small for that kind of space in Ontario.

 

[kennyp2339]

Iluvpikn - I think you'll make out great.. you have a lot of things going in your favor, new cons, fully insulated, center stove location with a stairway near by.. Also I'm not sure of building codes in your area, but after watching a couple building shows I think its safe to assume that Canada is a little tougher with insulation requirements than down here in the lower 48.....Good luck and post some pics.

 

[iluvpikn]

Thanks. The walls will be R20 with an additional 1" Styrofoam layer, and the attic will be R52. The basement slab will have R5 Styrofoam under the concrete.

 

[Grisu]

Just getting the Super is pushing it especially if you want to not use the furnace to supplement during the coldest days. For a large but well-insulated house a catalytic stove would be best as it will give you more even heat output and longer burn times. Also, if your house will be rather airtight, I suggest looking into an outside air kit (OAK) to help draft.

Be also aware that for getting the warm air up the cold air needs a way to get down, too.

 

[Swedishchef]

Welcome to the forums!

I would consider a stove a bit bigger. As I always say, you can always make a small fire in a big stove but the opposite is not true. The OTtawa region gets damn cold weather in the winter time.

I have a bungalow that is 1300 sqft. I can close part of my basement off. I have R10 spray foam on the concrete and R12 Roxul on top of that. Rim joists are sprayed as well. Then roxul on top of that. My Osburn 2300 (3.1 cu ft stove) heats the basement and eventually the heat reaches upstairs, about 2 hours after lighting the fire. The stove is 13 feet from my staircase.

Just food for thought.

Andrew

 

[iluvpikn]

Do you think I should consider moving up to the Summit? It does get very cold here in the dead of winter.

Are you saying that I can just make smaller fires in a larger stove with no problems, and load it up more when required?

Thanks.

 

[Grisu]

Do you think I should consider moving up to the Summit? It does get very cold here in the dead of winter.

Would certainly be more appropriate for the size of your home and your climate.

Are you saying that I can just make smaller fires in a larger stove with no problems, and load it up more when required?

Exactly. There is no requirement to load it full every time but you may loose a bit in efficiency. You also don't need to reload it immediately as soon as you are down to coals but the house is still plenty warm. Although that is the proper way to operate a secondary burn stove during warmer days when less heat is desired, it is certainly a bit inconvenient as it means more work for the user. That's the reason I suggested a catalytic stove. You can fill it up every time, set the air to low, and enjoy a long burn time with a steady heat output for a very long time. And if it gets really cold the stove will still have the capacity to heat your home. BlazeKing has pretty much perfected the catalytic stove design. I would do some research here in the forum before deciding which stove to install.

 

[BruceNorEast]

Welcome.

I can't tell you if it'll be enough, but there are online calculators to determine approximately how much you will need in BTU, and then factor in the efficiency of the stove to know how much over that you should go. Look for people with similar sized homes and determine their energy use, there are online calculators to convert from different forms of energy too. That'll give you some sense of overall capacity needed. Then you have to consider losses due to the separate floors...

How about forced hot air for your furnace system, and using that to move the wood stove heat from the basement?

Any thought to a second, smaller stove, to use only when needed?

 

[begreen]

Without a doubt this stove will work if the house is well built. How will the house be insulated and sealed? Will it have an exterior insulation wrap as a thermal break?

A key to success will be having an adequate and fully seasoned wood supply. Estimate you will need 2-3 cords per year depending on the house sealing and insulation. If this is oak or hickory, it will need to be stacked, top covered and drying for a couple years before burning.

 

[Swedishchef]

Do you think I should consider moving up to the Summit? It does get very cold here in the dead of winter.

Are you saying that I can just make smaller fires in a larger stove with no problems, and load it up more when required?

Thanks.

I know ottawa's winters. And I see what you're trying to do: I do the same thing. I just can't see a 2.1 cuft stove heating 2400 sq ft spread out on two levels (especially with the stove in the basement). I'd want something a bit bigger like the summit or another type of stove, just keep it large.

And as BG stated, you need seasoned wood. That means wood that has been split/stacked for 2-3 years in an open area.

Andrew

 

[begreen]

Crap, I was reading one floor. My bad. Thanks for catching that Andrew. The Super 27 can do it, IF the house has a good insulation system that includes a thermal break to the exterior and good glazing that is not excessive. Otherwise going up to the Summit or other 3 cu ft stove is a good idea.

 

[Rossco]

If I was building and looking for a stove IDE spend the extra and get a real big unit with 8" flue. Like a BK KING.

Opportunity to instal 8" pipe and chimney on scratch built home.

 

[Swedishchef]

His house seems to be well insulated but the fact is no matter how much insulation you want, windows ruin all the fun of keeping heat inside


My only issue with the super is that IF he is trying to heat primarily with wood, reloads will happen more often than with a Summit.

 

[DickRussell]

As to how big a stove you need to heat the whole house, it all comes down to what a good heat loss model tells you. In my case, I have close to 4000 sq.ft. (gross) of heated space on two levels (basement set into hill). The house is in the superinsulated category, with R40 walls and R20 around the concrete (incl. slab), and triple pane windows. The model says 22K BTU/hr at -3 F, and the best numbers I've come up with from last January's weather says it's about 19K BTU/hr at zero (F; -18 C). My Quadrafire 2100 Millenium, at 1.46 cu.ft, with the tag saying the firing range is 11-28K BTU/hr (web site now says it can put out 40K BTU/hr - maybe doubtful), actually can heat the whole house if I need to.

It may be too late to beef up the design of the house to be what it ought to be in a heavy heating climate, but maybe it isn't too late to upgrade to good triple pane windows, to go from maybe U 0.33 to U under 0.2, which will add a lot of comfort besides cutting the heat loss considerably. If you aren't going to change what the house will be beyond code, at least get a good calculation of what the design heat loss will be, and let that guide you on stove size/heat output. Don't guess at it.

 

[McKeznak]

Nice to see all the Canucks coming out of the woodwork on this one. And great to see a 'local' on here, Pembroke here, and just got married in Calabogie in July.

I agree with Swedish, no matter what you will never regret buying the bigger stove... though come Jan-Feb you may regret a smaller stove I know I do.

I have an 1100sqf Bungalow and my Regency i2400 at 2.3cf Upstairs is just barely enough and only after I blew in r50 in my attic. I have a freestanding in the basement so that helps but doesn't sounds like you want two. House is older, what I wouldn't give for R25 in my walls though. I've just got the old style Rock Wool like R8-R10.

 

[iluvpikn]

There seem to be two camps here.

One says the Super 27 is enough, one says go for the Summit. The extra cost for the bigger stove is not my main concern. I just want to be happy with my decision, as I will have to live with it for years to come.

I am not interested in changing plans for the house, so the only alternative is to be flexible on the stove,

What would you do in my situation?

For the record, I will have a very highly efficient furnace (propane) installed as I hold trade certificates for that line of work. 96% efficiency, ECM motor.

I just want to avoid using it as much as possible.

Thanks.

 

[prezes13]

Bigger stove will give you more flexibility. You can always burn smaller fires in a big stove and have the fire power when you need but it I f it's a small stove then most likely you will be running it hard most of the time especially on those really cold days and at some point you may run out of fire power. That's why too much is never enough. Go as big as you can.

 

[Grisu]

There seem to be two camps here.

One says the Super 27 is enough, one says go for the Summit. What would you do in my situation?

Either go with the majority opinion here and install the Summit or have a proper heat loss analysis done on your home so you can size the stove based on some hard numbers.

 

[BrotherBart]

or have a proper heat loss analysis done on your home so you can size the stove based on some hard numbers.

Hard to do since the house isn't finished yet.

The Super 27 will probably get the job done. The Summit will definitely get the job done. Best anybody is gonna be able to tell ya.

 

[begreen]

If you are in the trade, what is the heat loss calculation for the house in btus per hour at zero degrees F outside? That will determine which stove is better sized for the place. We need details about the insulation and heat loss to refine recommendation.

 

[fossil]

What would you do in my situation?

Go bigger.

 

[Swedishchef]

Here is how I see it: if price is not an issue, get a bigger stove. It's a simple choice in my mind. Kinda like if you the chance to fill up a tank of gas when the gas light is on: fill it now or try to go another 50km. It may work.... But you may regret it.

And if you work and are not at home for 9-10 hours, the super 27 won't be keeping a 2400 sqft area heated for that long in Jan-feb. IMHO.

Andrew