Split size, think I need to break an old habit

[Pdog]

The house my wife and I live in today came with an old fireplace insert. The previous owner gave us some direction on the best way to start and maintain the fire which worked well with that insert. Only small splits were used, which created a great bed of coals quickly and burnt nicely, but needed to be loaded often. Here is the typical split size we use:

We now have a Jotul 550 and have been utilizing a similar procedure, small branches and rolled up newspaper to start with small splits on top to get that nice bed. I think this is where our issue begins. The room with the insert gets very hot within a couple of hours (80 degrees is easily achieved). I have the air control all the way down which minimizes the air in and extends the burn, but it still heats the room up (which is well insulated as well). I have looked at how to move that air and per recommendations on this forum found a small fan blowing the cold air towards the insert room helped move heat, but it did not lower the insert room temps.
See my post here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/another-air-circulation-question-in-a-ranch.115956/#post-1557536
Shame on me for now doing more research on this sooner and really learning how to use the 550, but I think my split size may be the issue. I believe smaller splits while burning easier and quicker also burn hotter. We usually use the small splits since it burns clean and our chimney sweep always comments that our chimney/liner was pretty good. I am thinking that maybe starting a little earlier in the burning process after the bed of coal with a larger split may help "maintain" a comfortable temp while still raising temps in the rest of the house a few degrees. Here is the size split I was thinking of using instead



My thought was get the initial burn going with the small splits until there is a nice bed, then maybe try laying 1 large split on the bed to see how that works. If temps maintain and do not rise too much, I could load her up and go. I think part of this is bad habit from the old insert, and partially concerned about burning too low with large splits to create too much creosote in the liner. I also just purchased a IR temp gun, so I will try monitoring some temps today.
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps due to the size of the insert and our sort of closed floor plan that this may be the norm and cannot do much to fix it.

 

[bmblank]

As far as the split size, i can't see why those bigger splits wouldn't burn fine. I would even consider bigger ones for longer burn times, overnight and whatnot. As far as heating the room goes, i think you're always gonna end up with what you have going on now. You just need to move as much air as you can and burn as little as you can and still have fire.

 

[Pdog]

Thanks. I used the larger splits last year when we lost power for a week after Hurricane Sandy and they burned fine for overnight and daily burns, but I was trying to get the most heat out of the unit as possible to feed the rest of the house which had no heat. I will give it a shot today and see how it goes. May need to crack the sliding door in the insert room to cool things off. LOL

 

[bmblank]

It may help to use the heat in that room to help heat the rest of the house when there's no fire. Sort of a low mass thermal mass. Also, it doesn't always need to be a roaring fire, just feed it bits at a time. Let it go until the coal bed is way smaller, then put in a small piece or two. If your trying to heat the whole house with it though, you're bound to get a warm room. You just need to try to get those btus spread out around the house as fast as you can get them.

 

[Pdog]

Thanks. I don't need to heat the whole house, so I will try keeping a smaller fire going. Just love seeing the flames, so when it heats up I am caught between the love of seeing the flame or passing out for a good nap due to the heat.

 

[Nick Mystic]

I find putting at least two splits in a stove seems to work much better than trying to burn a single log or split. When you have two pieces of wood in the stove, fairly close together, the coals down below will channel concentrated heat up between the two splits and they sort of feed off each other to keep a good burn going.

 

[UncleJoe]

I see from the pics that you have some black locust in there. That stuff burns HOT. Have you considered using a different type of wood for the early and latter part of the heating season when it isn't so cold outside? I know you can't tell in my avatar but the front 3'-4' of the 2 rows on the left are cooler burning wood; silver maple, birch, poplar, etc. They are burned when the temps only get down into the 30's. Behind that is the hotter woods; oak, locust, hickory. I have that set up for burning when we have high's in the 30's in Dec. and Jan. Just a thought.

 

[Pdog]

I will try the 2 splits.

Now you are really going to make me do some research to be able to tell the difference in woods.
The guy who provided the wood said it was all hardwoods, mostly oak. I need to get smarter with this stuff to be able to tell what I am actually burning. I do know there is no pine, and everything has been seasoned 1-2 years now. Which picture shows the black locust, pic #2?

 

[Ashful]

As Nick already said, a single piece of wood won't burn... it likes company.

On heat and split size, it is correct to say you can get two or three large splits to burn slower and less hot than six or nine smaller splits, their mass being equal. On burning clean, if your wood is properly dry (<20%MC), the secondary system will function. That secondary burn system is there to provide a clean burn, even when slowly smoldering a load in the firebox.

All good in theory... but then there's reality. You bought a big stove, and it must achieve a certain minimum temperature for the secondary burn system to activate. For this reason, there is a limit to how far you can close that primary air control. That big stove is probably designed to run with a stovetop temp close to 600F in the early part of a burn, and given the surface area and materials, is going to throw a certain amount of BTUs. If you want a slower, less hot burn, you need to buy a catalytic stove. The best you can do with your non-cat is to just burn smaller loads, and live with a little bit of temperature cycling.

 

[Pdog]

Understood.

How about the use of the blower? I generally do not use it to prevent even more heat in the family room, but last week it helped with the blower on and a small fan blowing cold air towards the stove room.

 

[UncleJoe]

I will try the 2 splits.

Now you are really going to make me do some research to be able to tell the difference in woods.

Sorry. Being in the tree care business for 30+ years, I don't always think about the fact that not everyone can glance at a piece of wood and know what it is.

Which picture shows the black locust, pic #2?

It looks like most of the wood in both pics is locust.

 

[Pdog]

Oh boy. She is fired up and chugging along. Should have a good bed shortly. Fan is going in the other room with all heat shutoff in the house so I can see what is happening.
I will do a little research on wood ID shortly so I am better educated at what I am burning.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

These guys have given you some great advice, your two issues seem to be the type of wood your burning, ( you need wood like poplar and others with lower btu ratings) the other is stove size, how many square feet is the room your heating? Mine is 550sqft, and I am using a medium size insert, it heats the room just fine, no overheating issues. Pushing the heat from the stove room through doorways, twists and turns, to try and heat other parts of the house is a difficult task at that while even maintaining a decent stove room temp, lots of trial and error. Remember, Less wood equals less heat. I know that if I don't keep my stove running, my room cools down, but I have poor insulation and many windows....but keep experimenting and burning.......

 

[Maple man]

My englander will take splits 5 times the size of the splits you have shown their the bigger the splits the longer the burn time with thoes little splits you have shown my stove would glow red and fly away haha

 

[madison]

Oh boy. She is fired up and chugging along. Should have a good bed shortly. Fan is going in the other room with all heat shutoff in the house so I can see what is happening.
I will do a little research on wood ID shortly so I am better educated at what I am burning.

It must be > 65 degrees in NJ - and you are burning wood ? No wonder you are complaining about being too warm.....

 

[Excavator]

48 here in central jersey and we are burning the old encore! We are burning after several small burn ins as we installed new upper / lower fireback kit and new cat plus some gaskets. Yes too warm in here too

 

[Pdog]

Thanks guys. Fan is helping move heat. Have a little over a cord left, so I have to deal with it. Seems to be nice now, family room is about 75, rest of the house is around 70-71. Still have the blower off, not sure if I want to mess with that or get this figured first, one step at a time.

It is 42 here in NJ right now. Same issue even when it drops in the teens.

 

[ddddddden]

I'm not sure exactly how well it will work in your 550, but many of us burn a mix: smaller splits in the front of the firebox to get things going, larger splits in the back to slow it down when the burn gets to the back.

Also, in many stoves, loading splits north-south gives a faster, hotter burn than an east-west orientation does. Packing the splits tighter slows the burn too. It's all about air flow and how much of the wood's surface area is exposed to oxygen. 20 lbs of wood split into lots of smaller pieces has more surface area and will burn more quickly than two big ten-pounders, which will burn even more slowly if you jam them together tightly, with the two adjacent sides of the splits not getting much air. Dunno if you'll achieve exactly what you want with this particular stove (might have to get a BK), but you can do a lot with burn technique.

 

[Pdog]

Thanks. I always go E-W with the splits. Got 2 larger (or larger for me anyway ) going now, air control as low as can go and they are burning. No huge flames or anything, just burning nicely. The rest of the house is still 70 so that is good. Will try this for awhile and see if I can keep consistent results.

 

[dafattkidd]

Thanks. I always go E-W with the splits. Got 2 larger (or larger for me anyway ) going now, air control as low as can go and they are burning. No huge flames or anything, just burning nicely. The rest of the house is still 70 so that is good. Will try this for awhile and see if I can keep consistent results.

Hey Pdog, sounds like you're having a lot of fun burning in your new Jotul. That's a beautiful unit. Good luck with it.

Burning two splits is ok, but make sure you have no smoke coming out of your chimney. It usually takes three small-medium splits minimally for me to have a good clean burn. Two splits, on a small coal bed, air choked all the way back, would most likely result in a smokey chimney for me. Everyone's set up is different, so I realize my experience is not the rule. But the point that I'm making is burning small loads is fine, just do your best to keep it a clean burn to keep creosote development in your chimney to a minimum.