Starting a Firewood Company

[BCB]

Hi all, I am up in northern Quebec (Cote Nord). I have been thinking abou starting a firewood company for a few years now, but had not been able to find a reliable source of wood until now. Also with my two oldes sons becoming teenagrs and waning to work and arn some mony i figured this would be a good way to go as w are too far out of town for them to go in and work there until they have cars.

Up here we are only allowed to cut leaf trees and in certain areas, Birch is the only good leaf tree for firewood, we ar too far north for having much maple. After spending a few years out in the bush cutting our wood I realized geting more than 4-5 cords was exremely time consuming as the allowed areas have been so well picked over.

Any of you that sell firewood? If so what challenges have you faced?

For me the biggst challenge right now is where and how to store the wood. I have a load coming which is equivalent to 40 cords to buck and split, problem is where and how to store it. Birch is prone to mould and rot, so it needs to be a somewhat sunny spot, and off the ground which eliminates windrows.

 

[Montanalocal]

Check out Ohio Wood Burner.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgoX4dhlG9ZYXPyjvYkXUVA

 

[Pinesmoke]

A tangent to consider if you move forward BCB.

A close friend owns a tree service and has done firewood off season for a long time. In the last 5 years the market has been saturated with wood people. The market is covered with wet wood and people noticed it.

My friend has always sold wood ready to burn. Bucked and stacked the season before and split as time allows spring of the season he sells it (depending on species). He doesn't sell "seasoned" but actually meter tested and ready to go. He has been pulling a lot of people in as word of mouth passes around he has good firewood.

He makes money on quality not sales volume.

I'm sure your market is certainly different than his so I don't know if that would work up there or not, but is something to consider.

Good luck with your venture.

 

[qwee]

You have some bases covered - sons for extra labor, and a source for wood. Is there a market for firewood in your area? If you live out in the country, I wouldn't bother stacking it. But it depends where you live. I would go with the on-pallets-and-piled-up-method. A tractor would be nice. I wouldn't stack it when loading either - there is a cordage formula for loose stacked wood. These are time savers. Just make sure it is dry before selling it. One year drying for Birch?

Don't take advantage of people - you will soon learn how unintelligent wood buyers are. Sell only dry wood and cut it a little shorter to cover more wood burning bases. Always be over on the cordage delivered. Like said, develop a good rep so people will call you back. Most buyers have been burned enough to know when someone is doing things the right way.

 

[bholler]

You have some bases covered - sons for extra labor, and a source for wood. Is there a market for firewood in your area? If you live out in the country, I wouldn't bother stacking it. But it depends where you live. I would go with the on-pallets-and-piled-up-method. A tractor would be nice. I wouldn't stack it when loading either - there is a cordage formula for loose stacked wood. These are time savers. Just make sure it is dry before selling it. One year drying for Birch?

Don't take advantage of people - you will soon learn how unintelligent wood buyers are. Sell only dry wood and cut it a little shorter to cover more wood burning bases. Always be over on the cordage delivered. Like said, develop a good rep so people will call you back. Most buyers have been burned enough to know when someone is doing things the right way.

Not one year if it's just in a big pile no way.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

A solar kiln might enable you to move more dry wood faster.

 

[ABMax24]

To be honest I think it's going to be a lot of work for a limited reward.

You live in the middle of a giant forest, so your prices have to be competitive, otherwise people will just go and cut themselves.

Depending on where you live in Cote Nord, the market is pretty small, possibly limiting customer base.

Quebec hydro has very cheap power prices, pushes low income earners to use that as a heating source.

I wish you the best, and I hope it works out. But I wouldn't invest a ton of money into the business until you can be sure you will sell the wood consistently, and determine what the prices will be.

 

[Ashful]

A few random thoughts, assuming you want this business to support a family, and not just a way to burn spare time:

1. I think you'll find the dollar/hour rate impossibly low, with anything but full-on wood processor scale operations, with wood delivered by the semi load. Just think about the hours (days) required to harvest, haul, and process 10 cords. Now add to that the time and cost of accounting, marketing, etc.
2. I would be talking with tree services, to see how much wood they can reliably deliver to a steady customer, and what those costs would be.
3. Decide what your market advantage will be, whether just a "me too" but cheaper (though on costs), or selling actually properly-seasoned wood (tough on both costs and customer education / marketing), etc. It's tough to enter an existing market as a "me too", without some unique advantage.
4. Make an honest accounting of all up front costs, yearly costs, and determine how much you need to make per cord x how many cords must be produced to cover all costs plus your income.
5. Don't forget health insurance, if sole proprietor, and all other burdens (SS, workman's comp, etc.) if you'll have employees. If your spouse has insurance through their employer, this is always the slam dunk for any entrepreneur. Otherwise, check out discount rates through professional groups.
6. Find your local equivalent of Small Business Administration. I would expect Quebec has a good program, probably organized at universities across the region, where they'll assign you a coach to work one-on-one, getting you through the start-up process for a new business. Things like registering your business with the province, getting your state/province sales and usage tax ID, federal entity ID number, business insurance, etc.

That last one, step 6, should be your first move. Here we have the Small Business Development Center, with a local office at Lehigh University in Bethlehem PA. The coaches there will guide local residents through those first five steps, if you contact them first. Usually, all you need to start is an idea, they'll coach/push/pull you through the rest. I'm sure Quebec has something similar.

 

[Ashful]

Depending on where you live in Cote Nord, the market is pretty small, possibly limiting customer base.

More and more US states are requiring kiln processing to move firewood across county lines, and I would assume the same must be happening in Canada. Another cost to consider, but with possible advantage of being able to sell in larger regional markets, if others are not doing it.

 

[bholler]

A few random thoughts, assuming you want this business to support a family, and not just a way to burn spare time:

1. I think you'll find the dollar/hour rate impossibly low, with anything but full-on wood processor scale operations, with wood delivered by the semi load. Just think about the hours (days) required to harvest, haul, and process 10 cords. Now add to that the time and cost of accounting, marketing, etc.
2. I would be talking with tree services, to see how much wood they can reliably deliver to a steady customer, and what those costs would be.
3. Decide what your market advantage will be, whether just a "me too" but cheaper (though on costs), or selling actually properly-seasoned wood (tough on both costs and customer education / marketing), etc. It's tough to enter an existing market as a "me too", without some unique advantage.
4. Make an honest accounting of all up front costs, yearly costs, and determine how much you need to make per cord x how many cords must be produced to cover all costs plus your income.
5. Don't forget health insurance, if sole proprietor, and all other burdens (SS, workman's comp, etc.) if you'll have employees. If your spouse has insurance through their employer, this is always the slam dunk for any entrepreneur. Otherwise, check out discount rates through professional groups.
6. Find your local equivalent of Small Business Administration. I would expect Quebec has a good program, probably organized at universities across the region, where they'll assign you a coach to work one-on-one, getting you through the start-up process for a new business. Things like registering your business with the province, getting your state/province sales and usage tax ID, federal entity ID number, business insurance, etc.

That last one, step 6, should be your first move. Here we have the Small Business Development Center, with a local office at Lehigh University in Bethlehem PA. The coaches there will guide local residents through those first five steps, if you contact them first. Usually, all you need to start is an idea, they'll coach/push/pull you through the rest. I'm sure Quebec has something similar.

All fantastic points other than the health insurance. They are in Canada so.not the issue it is here

 

[Ashful]

I'm thinking the OP went into this thinking "cords", or even "tens of cords". But firewood seems to be an economy of scale business, where you're not making a living until you're looking at hundreds to thousands of cords per year. Just spit-balling, if you make$50 profit per cord, you need 2000 cords per year just to clear $100k pre-taxable revenue. Oof!

Maybe my guess of $50 per cord is way off. Let's say it's 3x that, $150/cord... we're still talking 700 cords per year to just pull in $100k, before costs. Take out your equipment costs, fuel costs, marketing costs, employee costs... what's left for you? Not an easy business to do on a small scale.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

I tend to agree with most folks looking at it as an economy of scale situation. Generally speaking, I like wood as a side hustle/barter/help a neighbor out situation. I typically have folks in my area who want a few trees taken down, help haul the brush and branches, let me keep the wood and pay me something for my time. I find that a more enjoyable "wood experience" and focus on my day job and farm for the income.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

If your purchasing the wood its awful hard to make money. Its super difficult to process hundreds of cords and season it properly and make good money. Firewood is a low dollar generating income. I sell.. but only to a small group of people.. all my wood is free and I'm kiln drying.. really seasoned.. like 12%mc.. the people buying are purchasing at a really high number..

 

[hearthon]

Start it as a side hustle and if it blows up quit your job, don't just jump into it and hope it takes off, especially considering you have 2 teenagers. If you never try you'll never know.

 

[Highbeam]

Not everybody that sells firewood has a firewood “business”. It’s a lot of fun for some chainsaw money. I sold about 5 cords of extra wood last year and made good money. Mostly because I sold 1/3 of a cord at a time.

 

[BCB]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I think selling good dry wood and making sure cords are full are important.

I put up a test add two weeks ago on a few local FB groups and I had to take them down in under 24 hours due to the amount of interest, way more than I could handle.

I have sold 10 cords and so far everybody very happy and saying they will be back next year and some have said they will tell their friends.

The load of Birch I had delivered I have been spot testing for moisture after splitting and I have yet to find a piece over 20%, most is around 12-16% which for me is perfect.

While there are sellers in the area I think there is room for somebody bringing quality and honesty, I am straightup with people, always.

Here are some things which I have been working on which I think are helping or will help:

1.) I stack the cords in rows, the poles are marked at 4 ft so people can see the stack is full.
2.) I send people a picture of their wood stacked so they can see what they are getting as well as an average moisture content of their wood.
3.) I have created a website (WIP) and am in the process of taking top spot for firewood searches in the area.
4.) Created a newsletter which people can signup to and be notified when I have wood in stock as well as hear about upcoming contests.
5.) Contests where a cord gets you an entry, the first one is for a hand forged hunting knife.
6.) Have started developing which I hope are useful related tools which I can point customers to. The first one I have built is a firewood calculator, if you guys want to check it out, it is here (WIP): https://boisafeudunord.com/tools/cord-calc.html

I am working into it slowly, so far from the first load I have the little yard works splitter paid and a chunk of the original delivery, than start putting away some for the much needed splitter upgrade which is about $3k.

Everytime you have to touch the wood, you lose money, this matches what people have said in different ways. Right now I can process maybe 1/4 cord (face) per hour by myself from log to stacked. Not great but it will improve slowly and so will the customer base I believe.

With the new splitter I am pretty sure I can do over 1/2 cord per hour without killking myself, and we'll see from there, who knows maybe down the road I'll endup with one of those beastly processing units.

Another thing is I believe is I can carve out a pretty good spot of the camping firewood sales in the area, which is much better $$ than the cords selling, we shall see!

Either way, I enjoy the work, always have, and the kids do most of the time