Stove Location Question

[burningfire]

Hi,

I've been lurking on these forms for the last few weeks just reading and soaking up information. Lots of great info here!

I'm working on designing a house for my family that we will be building in the spring. My wife grew up with only wood heat and for this house we are planning a combination of a wood stove and electric baseboard heat.

Given that the back right of these house plans is open to the upstairs and the entire back half of the the house will have a vaulted ceiling do you think a properly sized stove will be able to heat both floors if it's located in the basement?

The plans are a work in progress (no windows yet, etc) so if something doesn't make sense let me know.

Thanks!

 

[firefighterjake]

Well as you may know if you've been lurking here for very long . . . there are some folks here who heat their home successfully with a stove in the basement . . . most of whom will advise you to make sure it is insulated. However, many of these same folks will tell you that you don't get as much heat upstairs and you miss out on the opportunity to watch the fire -- honestly -- for me personally I can not tell you how often I turn off the TV and sometimes just watch the flames.

I would also be remiss in not mentioning that while you can heat a home with open and vaulted ceilings (and there are "tricks" involving ceiling fans and many, many folks do heat with wood in these types of homes), my experience has been that these types of wide open spaces may not be the ideal construction for someone who was looking for maximum efficiency when heating with wood.

 

[Grisu]

Sorry if I don't quite get your map. Is the living area located in the basement and that is where the stove will be or is the stove underneath the living area? If it is the latter, I would consider a wood furnace/boiler to put into the basement but not a stove. Even next to the stairwell there will be no guarantee that the warm air will rise and be enough to heat your home. One more thing to consider: Does the basement have another entrance? Carrying down several cords of wood every winter will get old quickly.

Another option, especially attractive for a new construction, would be an EPA-approved zero clearance fireplace. You will get a solid heater with the look of a fireplace. See here for an example: http://www.mainestoves.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/5fa21cd9e0d2531a2f1dfdffbab46f70.jpg
It will cost more than a stove, however.

 

[jeff_t]

The thing about heating from the basement is moving air. Heat doesn't rise, warm air does. For that to happen, you have to get cold air to take its place.

I think there must be more to the floor plans? Is there a basement and one floor? Two floors? Are we looking at the second floor in that image?

 

[burningfire]

Thanks for the replies.

The plans are still a work in progress. The image I attached is the main floor and the whole area that says open to below is on the basement level and where the living room would be. The ceilings in that area would be close to 20ft tall. You could stand up by the kitchen/nook and see down into the living room below.

The rest of the basement will be finished but I haven't got those drawings complete yet.

Does that make more sense?

 

[begreen]

As you have guessed there are multiple factors reducing the effectiveness of locating the stove in the basement. Cathedral ceilings allow the heat to stratify. A narrow staircase can allow the insulated basement to overheat in order to have reasonable temps upstairs. This is compounded if the only return air is via the same narrow staircase. To improve the situation a convective return loop needs to be established so that cooler main floor air descends toward the stove room. Will the basement floorplan be open or closed off areas? In the plan are you showing the basement stairs or the mainfloor stairs? Where is the main entrance to the home?

 

[DougA]

I've got a wood stove plus electric baseboard and we had to add some ductwork so that we could have central air later on. Now, you can have split systems that eliminate the need for central air but I would make sure you allow some space for ductwork just in case.
Another thought if you have a plentiful supply of free/cheap wood is an exterior wood furnace. You will pay a bit more but eliminate the need for baseboards and a wood furnace is requires less loading because it is so much larger than a stove.

 

[Grisu]

Thanks for the replies.

The plans are still a work in progress. The image I attached is the main floor and the whole area that says open to below is on the basement level and where the living room would be. The ceilings in that area would be close to 20ft tall. You could stand up by the kitchen/nook and see down into the living room below.

The rest of the basement will be finished but I haven't got those drawings complete yet.

Does that make more sense?

Yep, that is better. Essentially, the kitchen/bedroom floor is like a loft above the basement. In principle it makes sense then to install the stove in the location you pointed out. One major caveat is that the stove will have a hard time heating the rest of the basement as the warm air will naturally rise to the floor above. I would suggest to look for a more radiant stove (e. g. soapstone) so when you sit in the living room you benefit from the radiant heat the stove puts out.

 

[begreen]

?? I thought the question was with the stove located in the basement, not the living room. Still waiting for basement floor plan.

 

[burningfire]

Sorry for the late reply. I've been busy at work.

Grisu has it right. The plan shown is the top floor and has a walk out basement on the bottom. I don't have the basement plan yet (wanted to make sure my idea of stove location will work first.)

I've attached another image of the plan to make it more clear. All of the area that is now green is on the basement level but completely open to the top level that is shown. When you're sitting in the green area (the living room) you'll be able to see the open stairs and up into the kitchen/nook.

Begreen does that make more sense?

 

[begreen]

Yes, that helps a lot. Thanks. It also changes the convection dynamics quite a bit. To answer your original question, yes a single stove may be up to the task with some fan assistance as long as the basement and house are well insulated. A ceiling fan or two will be needed to help distribute the heat. Basement heating will depend on how it is partitioned. Having the stove face to the covered (not green) section of the basement so that the fan blows into that area would also help, but may not be desirable from an aesthetic or fire view perspective. The nature of the hot air is going want to be going up, not sideways.

How many sq ft per floor here?
What will be the basement and first floor ceiling heights (outside of the green area)?
What will the insulation be?

 

[burningfire]

Thanks. Sorry for any confusion.

The top level of the house is 1015sqft. The basement will be about 1400sqft because it also has the green area included. That gives the entire house a size of about 2400sqft.

The insulation will be a combination of fibreglass batts and blown in insulation. The walls will have R20 batts, the vaulted ceilings will have R40 batts and the flat ceilings will have R40 blown in.

All ceiling heights will be 9ft except for the vaulted area above the living room. That ceiling will likely be close to 22ft depending on the final slope of the vault.

I've added yet another picture. This time there are two purple lines behind the stove forming an L. The thought here is to build a thermal mass using cinder blocks and then covering those with rock work. The thermal mass would go up to the main floor level only giving it a total height of about 9ft. My hope is that heating that up will help radiate heat back into the other parts of the basement.

If not all of the rooms can be completely heated by the stove they'll have baseboard heaters to help out.

Begreen what is your opinion on needing an air exchange system in a setup like this?

Thanks!

 

[Grisu]

Since it is a new construction I would look into an EPA-approved zero clearance fireplace. Many can be installed with additional ducts which would dump warm air in other places of the house. You could run one to the back end of the basement to get some heat there. Plus, you get the look and feel of a fireplace. Here is just one of many options: (broken link removed to http://pacificenergy.net/products/wood/fireplaces/fp30-arch/)

 

[burningfire]

Since it is a new construction I would look into an EPA-approved zero clearance fireplace. Many can be installed with additional ducts which would dump warm air in other places of the house. You could run one to the back end of the basement to get some heat there. Plus, you get the look and feel of a fireplace. Here is just one of many options: (broken link removed to http://pacificenergy.net/products/wood/fireplaces/fp30-arch/)

I'll check it out Grisu. My only concern with those is if you spend a bunch of money installing nice rock work around it how the heck do you get it out if something goes wrong or it needs to be replaced?

 

[Grisu]

I'll check it out Grisu. My only concern with those is if you spend a bunch of money installing nice rock work around it how the heck do you get it out if something goes wrong or it needs to be replaced?

Get a quality unit that is unlikely to need any serious repair for many years, and make it an interior fireplace with drywall at the back. Plus, ask that question the (hopefully) experienced installer.

 

[begreen]

Considering this is new work you can put an access door on the back of the ZC enclosure. Some ZCs are now coming out that are built on existing, tested fireboxes. That together with a lifetime warranty should be enough to put your mind at ease. Pacific Energy's FP30 is right sized, reasonably priced and should help with heat distribution. It has a nice square firebox which makes it possible to load N/S. Or go fancy and put in a Tulikivi if the desire is a slow release masonry structure.