Stove selection and location

[illini81]

So this is the first of probably many many posts in my stove selection journey. I am totally new to wood burning. From what I have read so far, every situation is different (home layout and age, stove location, chimney set up, climate, type and moisture content of wood, homeowner’s goals for the stove, etc…), and it is not hard to end up with the wrong stove. I really don’t want to end up there. The combination of expertise and surprising willingness to help that I have found on these forums gives me hope that I won’t.

I am hoping for input on both stove selection and stove location.

First, the facts:

• Geographical location: Southeastern CT (East Lyme)
• Home type: Colonial
• Home size: 1400 sqft main level (where stove will be located), 1000 sqft upper level (4 bedrooms), 1000 sqft finished basement that I will not try to heat with the stove.
• Home details: See the attached schematic. Downstairs layout is not super open… but we are planning on knocking down the two walls indicated on the schematic in the next year or two, which should open things up. Eight foot ceilings throughout.
• Wood: Maple and oak.

Stove Location Options:

1. In front of existing fireplace (in which a gas insert is currently installed, see pic).

a. Run flue out back of stove and up existing chimney. I have no idea what sort of draft my chimney will have, so my preference would be to have an inside chimney
b. Run flue straight up through the ceiling, through the closet above, through the attic, and out the roof. I would prefer this option since it would result in an inside chimney and would allow me to have a flue damper. However, I’m not sure I would like the looks of this option, without modifying our mantel.
​

2. In the family room, near one of the interior walls that will be knocked down, run flue up through a closet and out the roof.

Originally I liked this option, because it would result in the most centrally located stove. However, the stove would be oriented such that it’s side/back would be facing most of the main level, whereas a stove in either of the other two locations I’m considering would be oriented with its front visible from nearly any point in the main level.
​

3. In between the kitchen and living room (see pic). Run flue up through a closet and out the roof.

I like this location visually. I’m not quite sure I can fit the stove here though, without the space feeling a little cramped. Also, I think it would look good with the stove and the fireplace in the same room, but I’m not positive. Does anyone else have a situation like this? If you do, would you care to share pictures?​

Home Layout:

• See attached house schematic with stove locations highlighted, and pics.

What I want out of a stove

• Whole house heat (minus the basement). I am not opposed to using baseboard heat in upstairs bedrooms, if occasionally necessary. If I have to do this regularly though, I’ll be disappointed. I do understand that until I knock out the family room walls, I almost certainly won’t be able to heat the whole house.
• Long burn times. I would like to be able to load the stove up before I go to bed (9pm), and have enough coals to just throw on some more wood when I get up (5am).
• Good view of the fire. I love fire. I’ve never had a wood stove, but I grew up doing a lot of camping (best part was always the fire), and I’ve always enjoyed a good backyard bonfire. Maybe I’m just a simple person, but I can watch a fire for literally hours. For this reason, I’m not interested in pellet stove, and I also may not be interested in catalytic stoves (my understanding is that you don’t get the same fire view with a catalytic stove?).

Stoves I am currently considering:

• Hearthstone Mansfield
  • Love the looks
  • Seems like it would heat our house no problem
  • Love the long burn times
  • Although many people love their Hearthstones, I have also come across less than satisfied customers. If I could summarize the negative things I have read, it sounds like they take a long time to heat up, a few people have trouble getting significant heat out of them at all, and some people aren’t able to achieve the advertised burn times

• Jotul F600
  • Interested in this stove because a friend of a friend has the F500. I was over at their house once, and was really impressed with it.
  • Beautiful stove.
  • Seems like it would put out enough heat.
  • Sounds like it may consume a lot of wood, and may not provide the advertised burn times.

• Woodstock Progress Hybrid
  • Seems like no one has a single negative thing to say about Woodstock stoves.
  • Crazy long burn times.
  • Uses less wood.
  • The only thing I don’t like about this stove is the fact that you don’t seem to get the same roaring fire as you would with a non-cat stove.

• Pacific Energy T6
  • This stove just recently came across my radar. Beautiful stove, size seems to be right, gets good reviews. Overall I know the least about this stove though.

My Primary Questions:

• In my situation, where would you put the stove?
• Which stove would you choose?
• What other thoughts/advice do you have for me?

Thank you so much for the input!

 

[begreen]

I like location 3 based on the diagram, but looking at the pictures I am concerned about the hearth intruding on traffic flow and it looks like there is a return air vent in that location. The stove should be at least 10ft away from the nearest return intake. I have the T6 and it is a sweet stove. Other stoves to consider would be the Quadrafire Explorer III, the Jotul F55 and the catalytic Blaze King Ashford 30.1.

Be careful knocking down the LR walls, the one between it and the FR looks to be load bearing.

 

[illini81]

begreen, thank you for your input. I first read about the T6 in one of your forum posts, so thanks for that too!

Traffic flow is my big concern with Option 3. I cut out a piece of cardboard that would be the size of the hearth to see how it would fit. It definitely would be cramped. We would probably replace our couch with a smaller couch, and rotate our kitchen table or replace it with a smaller bistro table. Even so, I'm not convinced the stove would fit well there.

The floor register that you see is actually one of several that a prior homeowner added - he had a wood stove installed in the basement. I originally was considering putting a stove in the same location he had one, but from the research I have done, it looks like it can be hard to get a basement stove to draft well. So at this point, the vent is not doing anything.

The wall is a load bearing wall. Don't worry - I'll have a professional do the work I'm comfortable tackling a fair number of handyman jobs myself, but knocking down load bearing walls isn't one of them.

I'll look into the additional stoves you mentioned.

 

[Poindexter]

Couple thoughts. I lived in Schenectady for about ten years before I moved even further north.

1. You are going to end up recognizing the compromises you have to make and end up satisfied with your install, so kudos to you for planning ahead.

2. I would probably go with a 6" nominal diameter chimney. It is the most common size. You might could justify dropping an 8" chimney and going with a BK King, but I think the extra money would be better spent on upgrading insulation and taking care of air leaks. You can get a pretty fine stove under a 6" chimney, and getting heat up the stairs without setting the couch on fire downstairs is going to be a problem for you.

3. All of your location choices are pretty good options. I agree with begreen that the wall between living room and family room is likely load bearing. You can probably put in a truss that reaches from the left outside wall all the way across the opening for the stair well, but it would probably a lot less money (and more available headroom) to put in (leave in ) a vertical in that corner where the two walls meet near location #2.

4. Wanting to both heat primarily with wood and have a fire to watch in the box are mutually exclusive, or in constant mortal combat, wanting to have your cake and eat it too. I run about 8 cords per year up here, clips about 1000 gallons off my oil bill for the furnace. I run a catalytic stove on a 6" chimney like it is a rented mule. I can tell you I spend enough time watching the fire every morning and every night on my twice daily reloads that I get more than my fix of looking at the fire. The rest of the time, I'll take the efficient heat output and thank you. See #6 below, I am a supplemental burner. My oil furnace thermostats are all set for the low 60s, I keep the main part of the house around +80 to +85F.

5. How much do you really use that fireplace? I am kinda leaning towards yanking that thing out and putting in a catalytic given your goal of wanting to heat with wood. Later, when you get those walls out to open up the ground floor you'll get a little more heat up the stairs, but not enough to rush into the contract.

How much trouble would it really be to take out all that cabinetry and the propane fireplace, and then put in class A chimney and put your woodstove as a corner install there between the family room and sunroom? How well insulated is that sunroom?

6. The word you want to use with your homeowner's agent is supplemental. You still have electric baseboard heat, set at what, 60, maybe 65dF? So if you are late getting home from work and the stove goes out, your insurance isn't looking at frozen pipes, flooded basement, cracked foundation, that kind of stuff. You can supplement the dog out of your electric, and they will charge you a few bucks for the fire risk, but for heaven's sake don't tell them you are going to heat only with wood. You may not even be able to get a policy for that back East any more.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[moresnow]

I keep the main part of the house around +80 to +85F

...... Wowsers. Haaaaa. That there is warm! And I thought I kept my place at involuntary weight loss temps around the mid 70's.

Anywho illini81. You are doing the correct thing by requesting opinions and reviewing all your options. Very, very likely that your insurance agent (in his/her infinite wisdom) will want/need to hear that your wood heat is a supplemental heat supply. Just the way insurance seems to be heading.
I can tell you from experience that opening walls will greatly enhance your heat distribution. I removed a wall between my living room (stove room) and kitchen this winter. Sweet relief!
I think heavy consideration of location 3 would be my first thought. It will provide your best heat distribution. With that said I chose a corner install in the S.E. corner of the house/living room. As a result the N.W. corner of the main floor is definitely cooler. My upstairs is fed by a floor register (old school) and up the stairs. Works fine.
Sunrooms are notorious for being poorly insulated afterthoughts. Heat suckers.
Research your stove choice very carefully. Consider your true needs, as well as wants. Happy dancing flames are nifty and most cat stove's can be burned for ambiance that way. However. I know that in my cat stove happy dancing flames indicate a load being prematurely nuked. I'm sitting here with 14 hours worth of heat production on my last load. I watched purty flames for the first 20 minutes. Nothing more than a bit of a orange glow since then. I have not touched the stove controls for 13hrs 40minutes. Food for thought.

Carry on. Enjoy this part. These guys will give you some nice guidance.

 

[Poindexter]

As @moresnow pointed out, dancing flames in a catalytic stove are btus wasted up the chimney.

It took a couple seasons, but i kinda have a rhythm where i can turn mine down before i leave for work so the oil doesnt kick on but i have a gravious plenty coals to use for a hot reload when i get home , dancing flames and a warm house when the wife gets home...it all depends on the weather and the insulation envelope.

Also, if you are going for it this summer bring in 4-6 cords of pine NOW, get it split and stacked NOW so you'll have something dry to burn winter 17/18.

Then bring in another 4-6 cords of maple and have that split and stacked before June first 17. That'll give you maple to burn winter 18/19.

As you burn the pine, replace with maple.

Have you got room for 8 to 12 cords I hope?

We can all buy "dry seasoned" firewood from dozens of vendors. The problem is getting "dry seasoned" firewood actually delivered.

Go ahead and cancel your gym membership. Buy several bags of cookies, several cases of beer and a Fiskars X27. You are four weeks away from becoming a studly hunk or an orthopaedic patient.

 

[illini81]

Thanks all for the responses. Poindexter:

2. Thanks for the input on the chimney. I hadn't given it any thought, so that is good to know. Furniture arrangement in the room with the stove will definitely change, so don't worry about the couch

3. I was thinking the exact same thing (locate a column where the two walls meet).

4. That makes sense to me. I don't want a picture perfect fire all of the time, but for the times when my wife and I want to just sit in front of the fire, can I build a watchable fire in a catalytic stove that would last for 1 hr? 2 hrs?

5. We actually like the fireplace. I believe it’s a Jotul. I think it would be nice to use on days when we don’t want to build a fire, but we want a heat source to take the edge of the cold/dampness. Also I believe the prior owner (We’ve only been in this house for a few weeks) just put it in, so it feels a little wasteful to tear it out. All that being said, if it is the best spot for the wood stove, that’s where we’ll put it.

I kind of like the built-ins, but if they have to go, they have to go. I didn’t think about a corner install there. I’ll have to give that a thought. Other than having more windows, the sunroom seems to be just as well insulated as the rest of the house.

What if I removed the mantel and the wood between the bookshelves, and installed a stone veneer, and then put the stove in front of that? Kind of like the picture I attached to this post, except it would be a wood stove not a fireplace… and I wouldn’t have a mantel. I will take dimensions of the hearth area sometime in the next few days and post them, in case that would be helpful.

6. I hadn’t thought about the effect of adding a wood stove on insurance. Thanks for mentioning this.

Moresnow thanks for the thoughts. I definitely understand that flames are not efficient. But… they’re so fun to watch! I think I read that on the Woodstock Progress Hybrid, you can bypass the cat. I realize that this is not efficient, but if you do this for a few hours, will you get sustained flames? Would this damage the stove?

I have about 2.5 cords of Maple split and stacked for 18/19. I think I am going to buy 3 cords of supposedly seasoned oak wood in a few weeks (I will test with a moisture meter when they drop off) that I will use for 17/18. I also have 5-6 more cords of oak and maple lined up for future years that I haven’t split. I do have room for the wood. I’ve only been scrounging for maybe 1.5 months, but it seems like the supply of free oak and maple around here is essentially endless.

Hahaha I love the comment about the gym membership. I have split the maple over the past few weekends, and have been amazed at the workout.

 

[illini81]

Oops, I forgot to attach the pic.

 

[Poindexter]

The flame time in a cat stove is going to depend on your insulation and weather.

Starting about -20dF with my insulation Ioad the stove full when i get home and run it wide open throttle 2-4 hours to warm the house back up, and then can throttle back for an overnight burn on low.

Down around -30dF ill load when i get home, run wide open for 4-6 hours and then top off the fuel load for an overnight burn on medium.

No offense, i have really really good insulation up here. You might also look at @Ashful 's burn times, his house is probably not as well insulated as yours, but he has the same model stoves as i do.

One thing i monitor is ny flue gas temperature. At wide open throttle the exhaust in my chimney about 30 inches above the stove runs about 500dF. On medium low throttle i can get the exhaust gas down to 200 dF or so, wasting a lot less heat up the stack.

You might consider an electric splitter. About $400 but fast enough for a one man crew. I would be tempted to split all thise rounds tou got once, just break them in half and leave then in a pile until tou can get back to them. They will start drying, but i does mean handling them an extra time.

 

[moresnow]

Moresnow thanks for the thoughts. I definitely understand that flames are not efficient. But… they’re so fun to watch! I think I read that on the Woodstock Progress Hybrid, you can bypass the cat. I realize that this is not efficient, but if you do this for a few hours, will you get sustained flames? Would this damage the stove?

Keeping sustained flame is no problem on my BK. No need to bypass the cat. Give the stove just enough air and you have flame. Fun to play with occasionally. Assuming a Woodstock is the same.

 

[BKVP]

Depending upon how much wood you have to split and your checking account balance, for several years I rented a splitter from the local rental yard. A one day rental was around $125 and I had my son help me. We were able to split 3 cords in a day. Stacking took me more time. Spending $125 once year made sense until I was tempted and bought my own splitter...because the son has a busy schedule was the logic.

 

[RobbieB]

Any excuse to buy a new tool is a good excuse.

Man Law

 

[BKVP]

I once needed to bend a piece of flat bar....so now I own a 50 ton pressbrake. I know man law...

 

[illini81]

Thanks all for the input. I am holding off on a splitter for now... I have about 5 cords of maple/oak at this point. About half is split and stacked. Splitting by hand is slow going, but I’m having fun with it so far.

At this point we are leaning towards putting the stove either:

1. In front of the current fireplace, and running a chimney up through the ceiling, through the closet above, and out the roof.​

2. In the living room against one of the outside walls. With this option, we would have to run the chimney out the wall and up against the outside of the house. I know a cold chimney is not ideal… but it’s looking like this may be the best location in terms of overall floor layout. If we do this, we may have to wait another year, since we’ll have to get the walls knocked down first ☹​

How much should I expect to pay for chimney installation for both of these options? I’m assuming running a chimney up through the house would be much more expensive?

 

[illini81]

I am considering taking my stove location selection journey in an entirely new direction. Up until now, I have been trying to come up with a good location for the stove on our first floor. I had ruled out locating the stove in our basement for two good reasons that I have read on hearth.com:

1. A wood stove is a radiant heater. Radiant heaters work best when they are located in the space they are intended to heat.​

2. Stoves located in the basement can have issues with draft that I am still working to understand.​

However, I am currently reconsidering the basement for the following reasons:

1. I am having trouble coming up with a good location for the stove on our first floor.

2. A prior owner heated the house from a wood stove in the basement (not the owner I bought it from, but the one before that). Unfortunately I believe he has passed away, so I can’t get any information from him on how it worked out for him.​

Some information about our basement:

• You can see from the pic (sorry for the poor quality, I am on vacation, and this is the only pic I had saved on my computer. I can get better pics when I am home next week) that there is a large bricked area that is intended for the stove. This would certainly be nice for containing the mess. We do not use the ventless propane heater shown in the pic.

• There are four vents in the basement ceiling to allow heat to rise to the first floor. They each have a fan as well.

• The basement is finished.

• There is a bulkhead door that would allow for easy access to the wood pile.

• We only recently moved (2 months ago). We do not currently use the basement. For quite some time it will probably only be used for storage and as a work out area.

• I know nothing about chimneys/flues/whatever the terminology is (I know it’s not crazy complicated, but for some reason all of the different chimney related words still confuse me). There is currently an empty flue in this location (see pic) that I believe is intended for a propane appliance. The home inspector said that it looked like it had never been used. The propane flue runs into a masonry chimney. The chimney has a second flue for the propane appliance on the first floor.

House details for anyone who hasn’t read this thread from the beginning:

• Geographical location: Southeastern CT (East Lyme)

• Home type: Colonial

• Home size: 1400 sqft first floor, 1000 sqft second floor (4 bedrooms), 1000 sqft finished basement

My thought is that I would install a large stove in the basement that would be our whole house heater. I would then (a year or three down the road) install a much smaller stove or likely a wood burning insert in our fireplace in the living room that we would use for ambience.


Questions:

• I have read about several people with basement stoves being unable to get enough heat up to their living spaces. Our basement is finished, I have the vents in the basement ceiling, and we do not see some of the really cold temperatures I’ve seen some of you post on here (rarely drops below the teens at night, usually in the twenties). Because of these differences that (I think) work in my favor, do you think my situation is workable? My goal would be to have the first floor at 70-75 and the second floor at 60-65.

• Should I rule out catalytic stoves? I have read that some people have issues with creosote buildup when using a really tall chimney. Because of this, I would lean towards getting a non-catalytic stove (PE Summit?), since they have cooler flue gases. Also, my understanding is that catalytic stoves burn low and slow. Which might mean that I can’t get enough heat up to the living spaces?

• Would it make any sense to do a pressure test of the current propane appliance flue? Would that provide meaningful data?

Thanks for the help.

 

[bholler]

We heat from the basement and it works fine for us. We also have many customers that do as well. I can tell you i would not want the stove on the first floor. In my experience that leads to the room with the stove being way to hot and not comfortable to be in

 

[begreen]

Not all wood stoves are strictly or strongly radiant heaters. Some are more convective in design. We heat with a single stove on the first floor and it couldn't work better for eveness of heat and comfort throughout the house. The reason it works in our house is the stove is central, the floorplan is open, there is a good flow of heat to the second floor via a large open staircase, and the stove is convective in design and has a massive cast iron jacket that greatly reduces temperature swing.

Basement heating can be a mixed bag, depending on the house design and layout, stove location, insulation and method for heat to convect to the next floor. In some houses it works well, some it does not, particularly if the basement is a commonly used space. Some basement installation require the basement to be heated to 80-90º in order for it to be 70+º on the first floor.

 

[begreen]

I am considering taking my stove location selection journey in an entirely new direction. Up until now, I have been trying to come up with a good location for the stove on our first floor. I had ruled out locating the stove in our basement for two good reasons that I have read on hearth.com:

1. A wood stove is a radiant heater. Radiant heaters work best when they are located in the space they are intended to heat.
Not all are strongly radiant, but yes, a stove is generally considered an area heater. That is what it does best. When the house layout permits the stove may be able to heat the whole house if this is not a huge home.​

2. Stoves located in the basement can have issues with draft that I am still working to understand.​

However, I am currently reconsidering the basement for the following reasons:

1. I am having trouble coming up with a good location for the stove on our first floor.
Can you post a sketch of the floorplan that includes the propane vent location? Is there a first floor fireplace?

2. A prior owner heated the house from a wood stove in the basement (not the owner I bought it from, but the one before that). Unfortunately I believe he has passed away, so I can’t get any information from him on how it worked out for him.​

Some information about our basement:

• You can see from the pic (sorry for the poor quality, I am on vacation, and this is the only pic I had saved on my computer. I can get better pics when I am home next week) that there is a large bricked area that is intended for the stove. This would certainly be nice for containing the mess. We do not use the ventless propane heater shown in the pic.

• There are four vents in the basement ceiling to allow heat to rise to the first floor. They each have a fan as well.

Not sure if this is code acceptable. Do these vents have fusible link dampers? Are the vents on perimeter walls? What is the return air flow path?

• The basement is finished.

This could be an issue if the basement ceiling is insulated.

• There is a bulkhead door that would allow for easy access to the wood pile.

• We only recently moved (2 months ago). We do not currently use the basement. For quite some time it will probably only be used for storage and as a work out area.

• I know nothing about chimneys/flues/whatever the terminology is (I know it’s not crazy complicated, but for some reason all of the different chimney related words still confuse me). There is currently an empty flue in this location (see pic) that I believe is intended for a propane appliance. The home inspector said that it looked like it had never been used. The propane flue runs into a masonry chimney. The chimney has a second flue for the propane appliance on the first floor.

House details for anyone who hasn’t read this thread from the beginning:

• Geographical location: Southeastern CT (East Lyme)

• Home type: Colonial

• Home size: 1400 sqft first floor, 1000 sqft second floor (4 bedrooms), 1000 sqft finished basement

My thought is that I would install a large stove in the basement that would be our whole house heater. I would then (a year or three down the road) install a much smaller stove or likely a wood burning insert in our fireplace in the living room that we would use for ambience.
Heating 3400 sq ft with a single stove is going to take a lot of factors to work well. Is the house very well insulated? Is there an excess of windows? Are there very high ceilings?

Questions:

• I have read about several people with basement stoves being unable to get enough heat up to their living spaces. Our basement is finished, I have the vents in the basement ceiling, and we do not see some of the really cold temperatures I’ve seen some of you post on here (rarely drops below the teens at night, usually in the twenties). Because of these differences that (I think) work in my favor, do you think my situation is workable? My goal would be to have the first floor at 70-75 and the second floor at 60-65.

See separate response.

• Should I rule out catalytic stoves? I have read that some people have issues with creosote buildup when using a really tall chimney. Because of this, I would lean towards getting a non-catalytic stove (PE Summit?), since they have cooler flue gases. Also, my understanding is that catalytic stoves burn low and slow. Which might mean that I can’t get enough heat up to the living spaces?

No, not entirely. They can be fussier about draft and their exhaust is cooler though.

• Would it make any sense to do a pressure test of the current propane appliance flue? Would that provide meaningful data?

Basements can be a negative pressure zone which can make for fussy draft. Here is a link that helps explain the issue:
http://woodheat.org/all-about-chimneys.html

Responses in context above. Click to expand.

 

[illini81]

Bholler, thanks for responding. Can you tell me a little more about your setup (stove make/model, chimney height, basement finished/unfinished, home layout, etc), for comparison purposes?

Begreen, I’ve attached the floorplan for the first floor, with the stove locations I was originally considering. See the first few posts of this thread for more information.

My answers to your questions:

1. Can you post a sketch of the floorplan that includes the propane vent location? Is there a first floor fireplace?

I attached a floor plan for the first floor. Our chimney has two flues – one for the basement, and one for an upstairs propane fireplace. I’ve attached a picture of the fireplace as well. Initially I thought we would use the upstairs flue for the stove, but I am having trouble figuring out how to arrange furniture in the room with the fireplace. It is a smallish room, and won’t have any walls to put a couch against once we knock down the walls we are planning on knocking down.

2. Not sure if this is code acceptable. Do these vents have fusible link dampers? Are the vents on perimeter walls? What is the return air flow path?

I am on vacation until 6/26. I will check whether the vents have fusible link dampers when I get home, and report back. Sorry for my ignorance – I don’t understand what you mean when you ask whether the vents are on perimeter walls. They are in the basement ceiling. Are you asking whether they are near perimeter walls? If that is your question, I believe one of them is and three of them are not. When I get home I will make a schematic showing where the vents are and will post it.

I would assume that the return air path would be the basement stairs. Although I do understand the concept that the air is simply going to want to flow in a certain path, and I’m probably not going to be able to over come that path. So maybe the hot air rises up the basement stairs, and the cold air falls through a few of the vents and I just leave the fans off. I would have to experiment with it. But I would assume that the more openings I have between the basement and the first floor, the better?

3. This could be an issue if the basement ceiling is insulated.


That’s a really good point that I didn’t think about. I’m not sure if it is insulated. I assumed it wasn’t, since the basement is finished. I will check when I get home from vacation. I also need to double check that the basement walls are insulated. I assumed they were… but I should make sure.

4. Heating 3400 sq ft with a single stove is going to take a lot of factors to work well. Is the house very well insulated? Is there an excess of windows? Are there very high ceilings?

The house was built in 1989. I think it is fairly well insulated. Eight foot ceilings. Average number of windows.

Thanks for the link to woodheat.org. I visited the site early in my stove selection journey, but it was a good refresher to read again.

 

[begreen]

As soon as I saw the floor plan I knew I should have gone back to the first posting. Thought this was a different thread. Most questions have been answered. As for the vents, yes perimeter = outside perimeter walls. For gravity feed the outside wall vents return cool air to the basement as cold air descends off the outside walls. Heated air will rise centrally from the basement stairwell assuming it is wide open. But I would still probably locate the stove at location 3 if the chimney height is adequate or location #2 if the wall was opened up.

 

[yooper08]

Perhaps to try to help understand the potential draft problem of basement installs...
What can happen with basement installs is that with the rising heat to the floors above, it's conceivable to create negative pressure in the basement (more air is moving out of the basement than is coming in), and air from wherever it can come will want to fill the void to equalize the pressure. If air from upstairs or from leaks in the basement can't make up this void, air can begin to travel down the flue, aka down draft. It can happen, so having a good supply of air helps. It may not be a problem since you have the return ducts and just keep the stairs open if there's a door. I personally haven't had this problem but my stairwell is open on the main floor and the basement is a walkout, so there's probably enough leakage around the windows and doors. The only times I've had a down draft was the first time I lit the insert after install and the first fire after a week of no burning in spring when temps dropped again. Otherwise, the top down method of starting never failed me each morning last winter.

As for flue vs. chimney and other terms, think about it like this. The chimney is the structure itself, the flue is the open section inside the chimney that carries out the exhaust. Flue liners are the walls of the flue, whether they be clay/metal.

I have an insert in the basement of my ranch house, which essentially makes it as if it were on the first floor so unfortunately I can't speak to 2-story houses, but I'll share my experience and thoughts. My priority was heating the basement and having a backup source of heat should the power go out, but I can keep the main living area upstairs around 72 when burning. That said, I really haven't tried to heat the entire house yet - I mostly just burn during the day, which doesn't give it time to start heating the entire house. The hottest the basement got last winter was 85.

Since I have an insert, it's essentially all convective heat, which is what you want in order to get heat upstairs. Radiant heat just heats what's in line of sight of the stove. My insert has a direct view to the stairwell. With a small 7" Vornado fan at the bottom of the stairs pointed towards the insert and the insert fan blowing out hot air to go up, there's a good convective current that sets up rather quickly.

 

[illini81]

Ok so… I’m changing course once again. While I was on vacation this last week, I spent more time on hearth.com than I probably should have… I did a lot of research on basement stove installations (personally contacted multiple people who had mentioned on hearth.com that they have basement installations), and re-convinced myself that they are not a good idea in most cases. It seems like it is essentially impossible to know if it would be workable without trying it, and even if it were workable, it would likely take a lot of tweaking and headaches.

After much thought about our layout, I’ve landed on the idea that an insert in our masonry fireplace is the way to go. It may or may not heat the whole house, but all of the heat that it would provide would go towards heating our living space, unlike a basement stove. Also, I think if we get the right insert, I can be pretty confident that it will at least heat our first floor (with the exception of the office) once we remove the walls we are planning on removing. I would love to have a free standing stove upstairs, but I think it just doesn’t make sense with the way our house is laid out.

I was pretty close to purchasing a Jotul Rockland 550 that I found on Craigslist for $1800, but I was swayed by several people’s negative experiences posted on hearth.com to pass (although some people do seem happy with the stove).

I’ve attached some graphics with dimensions of our fireplace and hearth. If I added a foot or so of tile (and whatever else I would need to make it comply as a non-combustible) around the perimeter of my current stone hearth, would my current set up be acceptable for a pacific energy summit? If I read the manual correctly, I think I am fairly close on some of the required clearances, but I think I’m ok?

The summit seems to be well reviewed. I don’t like it’s looks as well as I like some of the other inserts (the Rockland, the PE T5 insert), but it seems to be the insert with the largest firebox and would certainly get me overnight burns. Also, the ability to load N/S seems to be a good feature.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[begreen]

Just to verify, is the propane fireplace an insert in a full masonry structure?

Looks like the Summit might fit ok. Double-check clearances. Another insert to look at would be the Enviro Boston or Venice 1700. Looks like the hearth might need an extension too.

 

[illini81]

The propane fireplace is an insert in a full masonry structure. At least I think it is a full masonry structure – the firebox is brick on the inside, and there is a brick chimney on the outside. There is also an ash cleanout in the basement. So I’m pretty sure it’s a legitimate fireplace.

I will double check the clearances. When you say the hearth might need an extension, is that because of the requirement that there be 8” from the side of the fireplace opening to the side of the hearth and 16” from the front of the stove to the front of the hearth? I was hoping I could just use tile and cement board around the edges of the existing stone slab (which is just about flush to the floor), to extend the hearth. Based on the paragraph at the top of page 5 of the manual, “A non-combustible hearth that extends a minimum 20.5” in front of the fireplace opening may be flush to an adjacent floor”, I think I would be ok?

I found a 7 yr old used Summit insert for sale for $500. Seems like a deal that would be hard to pass up.

 

[begreen]

16” from the front of the stove to the front of the hearth

Yes.

I was hoping I could just use tile and cement board around the edges of the existing stone slab (which is just about flush to the floor), to extend the hearth

That should work, but note that is the hearth depth without the insert installed. The hearth needs to extend 16" in front of the stove door.

I found a 7 yr old used Summit insert for sale for $500. Seems like a deal that would be hard to pass up.

Great deal if it has not been abused. That would be an earlier Summit A or B model. The hearth requirement is the same. Some earlier Summit inserts had cracks appear around the door. Read old threads on this topic that have pics so you know what to look out for. They can be welded if present. See hogwildz posts on his Summit.