Stove selection and location
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NoGoodAtScreenNames
Feeling the Heat
I like many others was stove shopped into agreeing to an install without it only to install it myself a few weeks later. I did a two piece around the liner with as many layers of roxul as I could get on top. It's not perfect but it gets the job done. And by gets the job done I mean it hasn't fallen down after three seasons. Hardest part of the install was getting the shroud back on - it's not a 1 person job.
If I keep the fan on low / off I feel the heat pouring out the gap between the cover and the brick. The brick can get quite hot right above the stove which I think evens out the temperature swings we feel in that room and radiates back when the stove is running on the cooler side. At least that's what I tell myself to justify running the fan low to save electricity and to keep the room from being unbearable. Maybe one day when I'm home alone I'll try running the fan high, turn off the oil and see if it really could heat the whole house in a pinch.
So here’s the current plan:
We have not ruled out the PE Summit Insert, but we are leaning towards the Enviro Boston 1700 Insert. I was quoted a price of $1995 for a Boston floor model (I would pick it up and install it myself), which seems like a pretty good deal to me.
The main issue we are going to have (with either stove) is the wood facing on the sides and above our fireplace opening (see attached pic). My wife and I have decided that we want to replace the wood facing with stone veneer, because we like the look better and it solves any clearance to combustibles issues. I’m excited for the challenge of the project, but I don’t think I am going to be able to fit it in before this winter (wife is 8 months pregnant, I am in the middle of painting the exterior of our house).
I was really bummed about not having a stove this year, but then I started to think through whether it would be possible to just do the minimum necessary to make our fireplace compliant with all of the clearance requirements this year, and save the stone veneer project for next summer. We would have to tear down some of the wood facing, and so it wouldn’t look pretty for a year or so, but we wouldn’t mind it. Here are the clearance issues we would run into (with the Boston), and how I would like to deal with them. Please let me know what you think!
Depth of hearth – Need 16” from front of door. I have 18” from the wall. The Boston protrudes about 7.75” from the wall, so I would only have 10.25” from the front door. I would buy or build a cheap hearth extender, just for this year. It would be replaced when we update the hearth with stone veneer.
Depth of Firebox – This is might be a tough one. Needs to be 19”. I have 20” of depth at the floor, and about 18” at the top of the Boston (~20” high). However, since I am adding stone veneer, which will probably be ~2” thick, that additional standoff will increase the depth of the firebox to 20” at the top of the Boston, which would meet the requirement. In the interim, I was thinking of framing the opening of my fireplace with some non-combustible material (see pic), that would function like the stone veneer will, to increase the depth of the firebox. Does this make sense? Is there a non-combustible material that you would recommend for this purpose?
Facing on the sides and top – Since our facing protrudes more than ¾”, I assume it is treated in the manual as an unshielded side wall (sides) and as a mantel (top), instead of as facing. I will probably just cut out all of the facing on either side of the fireplace opening, and above the opening up to the mantel.
I believe these are the only requirements I don’t meet right now.
Please let me know what you think!
We have not ruled out the PE Summit Insert, but we are leaning towards the Enviro Boston 1700 Insert. I was quoted a price of $1995 for a Boston floor model (I would pick it up and install it myself), which seems like a pretty good deal to me.
The main issue we are going to have (with either stove) is the wood facing on the sides and above our fireplace opening (see attached pic). My wife and I have decided that we want to replace the wood facing with stone veneer, because we like the look better and it solves any clearance to combustibles issues. I’m excited for the challenge of the project, but I don’t think I am going to be able to fit it in before this winter (wife is 8 months pregnant, I am in the middle of painting the exterior of our house).
I was really bummed about not having a stove this year, but then I started to think through whether it would be possible to just do the minimum necessary to make our fireplace compliant with all of the clearance requirements this year, and save the stone veneer project for next summer. We would have to tear down some of the wood facing, and so it wouldn’t look pretty for a year or so, but we wouldn’t mind it. Here are the clearance issues we would run into (with the Boston), and how I would like to deal with them. Please let me know what you think!
Depth of hearth – Need 16” from front of door. I have 18” from the wall. The Boston protrudes about 7.75” from the wall, so I would only have 10.25” from the front door. I would buy or build a cheap hearth extender, just for this year. It would be replaced when we update the hearth with stone veneer.
Depth of Firebox – This is might be a tough one. Needs to be 19”. I have 20” of depth at the floor, and about 18” at the top of the Boston (~20” high). However, since I am adding stone veneer, which will probably be ~2” thick, that additional standoff will increase the depth of the firebox to 20” at the top of the Boston, which would meet the requirement. In the interim, I was thinking of framing the opening of my fireplace with some non-combustible material (see pic), that would function like the stone veneer will, to increase the depth of the firebox. Does this make sense? Is there a non-combustible material that you would recommend for this purpose?
Facing on the sides and top – Since our facing protrudes more than ¾”, I assume it is treated in the manual as an unshielded side wall (sides) and as a mantel (top), instead of as facing. I will probably just cut out all of the facing on either side of the fireplace opening, and above the opening up to the mantel.
I believe these are the only requirements I don’t meet right now.
Please let me know what you think!
Attachments
NoGoodAtScreenNames
Feeling the Heat
I think the depth of the firebox is not an issue. That measurement is what you need to make the facing line up tight against the existing brick. Without it, you will just extend one inch further into the room. I don't think anyone will notice. I have a little gap and it looks fine and increases the circulation of air which is a good thing.
However that does put more pressure on the front. You really need to make sure that you adhere to the 16 inches. I have 8 inches from the door and then use a cheap $100 extender. The top gets hot but the floor under stays cool. My hearth is raised a little so it's probably even more important for you with your floor level hearth.
However that does put more pressure on the front. You really need to make sure that you adhere to the 16 inches. I have 8 inches from the door and then use a cheap $100 extender. The top gets hot but the floor under stays cool. My hearth is raised a little so it's probably even more important for you with your floor level hearth.
NGASN, thank you for sharing your experience, and a pic. Letting the insert stick out a little bit would definitely be the simplest solution. I wasn’t sure if that would be considered a violation of the requirements or something like that.
So I think we're going ahead with the Boston! I called around for prices, and the $1995 price for a floor model seems really hard to beat. I've gotten two quotes for $3200 for a non-floor model.
Is there any reason why buying a floor model could be a bad idea? I would assume that floor models don't get much use, and certainly no abuse?
Is there any reason why buying a floor model could be a bad idea? I would assume that floor models don't get much use, and certainly no abuse?
That's a great price. As long as it is complete and in good shape it should be fine. Our T6 was a floor model. No problems to report many years later.
Put a downpayment on the Boston yesterday! Feels good to finally finally "have" a stove (won't pick it up for a few weeks).
Turns out the stove actually is brand new - hasn't ever been burned in. The price was so good because the guy who owns the stove store is retiring and is selling all his inventory. By "floor model" he just mean that the stove was sitting on his selling floor, and not in his warehouse.
Turns out the stove actually is brand new - hasn't ever been burned in. The price was so good because the guy who owns the stove store is retiring and is selling all his inventory. By "floor model" he just mean that the stove was sitting on his selling floor, and not in his warehouse.
If anyone else in CT or nearby is interested in a stove, check out Green Mountain Stove Company. My guess is that all their stoves are similarly priced to sell.
I love my Enviro woodstove. I also have the 1700 but I don't recall which model off the top of my head. We burn 24/7 through the Connecticut winter. It provides nearly all our heat. We go through 5 cords a winter. Best of luck.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks saewoody. That's helpful to know, especially since you're in the same area of the country. Do you mind sharing your house layout and square footage?
So now that I’ve secured a stove with a deposit, I’m assessing my wood supply…
I purchased 2 cords of mostly maple and a little oak that had been “seasoned” for 2 years. I didn’t realize this at the time of purchase, but the splits were definitely too large to season well (some rounds as big as 10 inches, most splits in the 5-8” range). Also, the guy I bought the wood from had had it completely covered by tarps, so sun and wind couldn’t help with seasoning. I spent the last few days splitting the wood much smaller.
I can fit about ¾ of a cord in my garage. Will wood season better in there, or would it be better to leave it outside as long as possible, stacked really loosely and top covered?
I also have 3 cords of maple that I split myself about 9 months ago, but I definitely split some of it too large, and probably didn’t stack it loosely enough to allow for adequate drying. So I’m probably going to be picking through my stacks all winter. Oh well. Year one.
I purchased 2 cords of mostly maple and a little oak that had been “seasoned” for 2 years. I didn’t realize this at the time of purchase, but the splits were definitely too large to season well (some rounds as big as 10 inches, most splits in the 5-8” range). Also, the guy I bought the wood from had had it completely covered by tarps, so sun and wind couldn’t help with seasoning. I spent the last few days splitting the wood much smaller.
I can fit about ¾ of a cord in my garage. Will wood season better in there, or would it be better to leave it outside as long as possible, stacked really loosely and top covered?
I also have 3 cords of maple that I split myself about 9 months ago, but I definitely split some of it too large, and probably didn’t stack it loosely enough to allow for adequate drying. So I’m probably going to be picking through my stacks all winter. Oh well. Year one.
Dry air blowing through the stacks will help dry the wood. Stack it in top covered, single rows that are oriented so that the prevailing winds can blow through the stacks. Move some into the garage if the fall turns very wet and before the first big snow. If you can put a fan blowing on the stacks in the garage that may help drying.
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NGASN (or anyone else) - any tips on moving the stove? I'm picking it up next Saturday. The dealer is going to forklift it onto the truck I'm borrowing. I'll have to figure out how to get it off of the truck, and in the door.
Remove the door and top if possible to lighten the weight. Will the stove still be on a pallet? In that case I've just used a pair of 2x8s stopped at the bottom and slid the stove down the boards (with a person on each side) down to the stops. Once on the ground I have used an appliance dolly under the pallet and then rachet strapped the stove to the appliance dolly. That puts wheel on it and makes it pretty easy to move around. Or have 4 strong guys handy and just lift it off the truck.
NoGoodAtScreenNames
Feeling the Heat
Well if you do what I did you just stand around “supervising” while the guys you’re paying to install it struggle to get it up the steps and into the living room. They didn’t have anything special, just 2 guys and a hand truck and some straps. It’s a heavy beast, so make sure you have a friend or two to help out.
I will say though that you should do anything you want to do in the existing fireplace like a block off plate before putting the surround on. It’s kind of a pain to take on and off. I did it once to install my block off plate and may do it again this year to insulate behind the stove. Getting it off isn’t so bad but getting it back on is a total PIA, especially if you’re doing it alone like I did. So do all your prep work beforehand so you only have to install it once.
Thanks for the replies guys. Looks like I've got a few options for moving the stove.
So now I’m trying to figure out what liner to get. I’m 95% sure the exterior dimensions of my clay flue are 8”X8”. I need to get up there and measure. My chimney is about 22 feet tall from the top of the flue to the bottom of the fireplace opening (this is based on estimating. Haven’t gotten a good measurement yet). My understanding is that an insulated, double-wall pipe is the way to go, but from what I’ve read on this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-install-in-progress.163448/#post-2195088, I won’t be able to fit an insulated, 6” chimney liner down an 8x8 flue. Does that mean I’m stuck with a non-insulated 6” liner? I’ve attached some pictures of my masonry chimney.
So now I’m trying to figure out what liner to get. I’m 95% sure the exterior dimensions of my clay flue are 8”X8”. I need to get up there and measure. My chimney is about 22 feet tall from the top of the flue to the bottom of the fireplace opening (this is based on estimating. Haven’t gotten a good measurement yet). My understanding is that an insulated, double-wall pipe is the way to go, but from what I’ve read on this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-install-in-progress.163448/#post-2195088, I won’t be able to fit an insulated, 6” chimney liner down an 8x8 flue. Does that mean I’m stuck with a non-insulated 6” liner? I’ve attached some pictures of my masonry chimney.
Attachments
https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/pre-insulated-flexible-stainless-steel-chimney-liner-kit.php
A pre insulated liner like this may work. Outer diameter is 7.25". It would be tight but may go down if you have a pretty straight shot.
A pre insulated liner like this may work. Outer diameter is 7.25". It would be tight but may go down if you have a pretty straight shot.
Thanks! I'm not sure if that would fit though. With my ladder fully extended I could just barely kinda sorta reach up and measure the flue dimensions, so I'm not sure this is right, but I measured 8 inches as the exterior dimensions of the square flue. If that is the case, the inside is probably something like 7"x7", or even smaller.
I just found this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/can-i-used-bagged-vermiculite-as-chimney-insulation.13678/
Pouring perlite down the chimney seems like a possible solution. Is this something you guys would recommend?
Also, it sounds like from this thread, an insulated liner is a requirement, which is news to me: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/insert-advise-build-along.163193/#post-2195235
I just found this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/can-i-used-bagged-vermiculite-as-chimney-insulation.13678/
Pouring perlite down the chimney seems like a possible solution. Is this something you guys would recommend?
Also, it sounds like from this thread, an insulated liner is a requirement, which is news to me: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/insert-advise-build-along.163193/#post-2195235
I'm an idiot, but a happy idiot. When I kinda sorta measured the flue dimensions from the ladder, I was only able to measure the basement flue. They both looked to be the same size to me (8x8). Apparently my estimating skills are poor. I finally was able to get up on the roof, and measured the flue I will be using for the insert. The outside dimensions are 12x12. So I should be able to fit a standard 6" liner with blanket insulation no problem.
I'm planning on going with a flexible, smooth wall liner, unless there's any reason I should consider a rigid liner? Everything I've been reading in past threads seems to say that rigid is better if you have borderline draft. However, since I have a 22 ft chimney, there doesn't seem to be any advantage to a rigid liner?
I'm planning on going with a flexible, smooth wall liner, unless there's any reason I should consider a rigid liner? Everything I've been reading in past threads seems to say that rigid is better if you have borderline draft. However, since I have a 22 ft chimney, there doesn't seem to be any advantage to a rigid liner?
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Rigid double wall is pre-insulated between the inner & outer shells. Will go down that old flue very easily, and is easy to clean. It will be a little more expensive. The liner itself is a bit hardier than flex. Either way will work just fine.
I went with the insulated double wall rigid, with 5' of flex at the bottom to the insert, and like it a lot.
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