Stove temp is funky...input needed!!!

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Dave, did you get a chance to closely inspect the cap and top pipe of the flue? Also, did you check the liner connection to the stove? Is it solidly anchored to the insert with no air leaks? If both the above conditions are good to go, I'd get some new wood from a friend or the grocery/hardware store and try a couple bundles. I know you think the wood is fine, but this is a way of testing that variable and asserting for sure that the wood is not the issue.
 
BeGreen said:
Dave, did you get a chance to closely inspect the cap and top pipe of the flue? Also, did you check the liner connection to the stove? Is it solidly anchored to the insert with no air leaks? If both the above conditions are good to go, I'd get some new wood from a friend or the grocery/hardware store and try a couple bundles. I know you think the wood is fine, but this is a way of testing that variable and asserting for sure that the wood is not the issue.

I will let the fire die down so I can inspect again. Could you please tell me what I should be looking for if there is a problem with the cap and liner. I did not check the connection from the liner to the stove. I just assumed all was fine. I suppose i will have to remove the surround so I can inspect this as well. I will go to the grocery store to grab some bundled. I read on some thread about proper storage of firewood. I have a tarp tat covers the wood pile but only extends down a foot on each side. some say this is okay and others objected. what is the best way. I thought about elevating the tarp above the pile so the tarp is not touching the pile. what are your thoughts on this. I think i might have to grab a chimney sweeper too at the depot. Thanks all for chiming in. i had to turn the oil burner on last night and was not happy. thanks again
dave
 
I checked just the cap and notice creosote "crystals" or wart like sized things on the underside and grate of the cap. is this an indicator that the liner has this as well and maybe the draft is lower? sorry for the dumb questions
 
after some messing around last night I woke up this morning and got some wood from my father in law, built the fire up, now im cruising at 550. I'd try getting some dried wood from the market and see if it works
 
davenorthshorema said:
BeGreen said:
Dave, did you get a chance to closely inspect the cap and top pipe of the flue? Also, did you check the liner connection to the stove? Is it solidly anchored to the insert with no air leaks? If both the above conditions are good to go, I'd get some new wood from a friend or the grocery/hardware store and try a couple bundles. I know you think the wood is fine, but this is a way of testing that variable and asserting for sure that the wood is not the issue.

I will let the fire die down so I can inspect again. Could you please tell me what I should be looking for if there is a problem with the cap and liner. I did not check the connection from the liner to the stove. I just assumed all was fine. I suppose i will have to remove the surround so I can inspect this as well. I will go to the grocery store to grab some bundled. I read on some thread about proper storage of firewood. I have a tarp tat covers the wood pile but only extends down a foot on each side. some say this is okay and others objected. what is the best way. I thought about elevating the tarp above the pile so the tarp is not touching the pile. what are your thoughts on this. I think i might have to grab a chimney sweeper too at the depot. Thanks all for chiming in. i had to turn the oil burner on last night and was not happy. thanks again
dave

To tarp or not to tarp? This amounts to a religious argument here, or like Mac versus PC.

Personally, I think in our NE climate, tarping is unnecessary. Folks in rainier climates have problems with outdoor wood storage we simply don't have here. The occasional rain doesn't penetrate very far into the wood, and it dries out very quickly. Even pieces that seem to be sodden (as I had a bunch of last year from sitting around in a loose pile on the ground for weeks caked with snow and ice) will dry out in a day or two in the house, or a couple of hours if you place them around the hearth just outside the combustible range. With a top-only tarp, the ends of your pieces are still going to get wet, so you're not really protecting much except that top layer of your stacks. How much water is really going to dribble down between your pieces in the stack, and how far down? Not much, really. And making your top row bark side up helps a lot to keep even those pieces from getting very wet.

Halfway through what turned out to be a full month of daily soaking rain we had here in July this year, I got panicky and top-tarped a bunch of my stacks, and by the time the weather dried out, I found after a couple of weeks that that top row under the tarp was actually wetter than in the stacks I hadn't gotten covered, I assume from condensation under the tarp.

I'm sure that's not the source of your problem unless you've only been using your top rows in the stove so far, but just thought I'd chime in on the tarping issue-- once again. I'm sure I'll be accused of heresy by somebody, but that's my experience. It's a big hassle, it doesn't gain you much of anything, and it may make things slightly worse.
 
Just bought store bundle firewood, all paper birch and the stove will only top off at 400 wide open for the last 4 hours. This is really concerning. Is it possible the air intake is clogged a bit or could it be something else. I also noticed that the secondary air tubes are not gushing out flames thru the holes like it used to. Any idea's????
 
That is peculiar. Does the stove have an outside air kit? How did the cap and the interior of the liner look? What you are looking for at the cap is whether the screen on the cap is partially blocked with dark blobs of soot and creosote. If not, but you pull the cap and find the interior of the liner lined with inches of accumulation, that would be a red flag. If there is no screen and you find a bird's nest in there, remove it.
 
BeGreen said:
That is peculiar. Does the stove have an outside air kit? How did the cap and the interior of the liner look? What you are looking for at the cap is whether the screen on the cap is partially blocked with dark blobs of soot and creosote. If not, but you pull the cap and find the interior of the liner lined with inches of accumulation, that would be a red flag. If there is no screen and you find a bird's nest in there, remove it.

Indeed, no outside air kit. the fire roars when i place fresh splits in. temp just barely hovers around 400. the cap had minimal blobs on the underside of the cap and on the screen. I didn't get a good glance inside the liner and hope it's not inches of accumulation. Could this even happen with a stove that has been installed around a month ago...all new parts?
 
I've been thinkin' about this all damn day...IF...if your flue is clean and your cap is clear....IF you have no leaks (like an open cleanout door which you don't have) and IF your wood is really seasoned......IT'S GOTTA GO.

It sure acts like a restricted flue or bad wood.
 
Could this even happen with a stove that has been installed around a month ago...all new parts?

Not if your wood is as good as you say it is....even burning on the cool side.
 
Were it me...i'd make damn sure the flue isn't choked before proceeding. It really sounds like you are trying to push the draft and that don't work.
 
woodconvert said:
I've been thinkin' about this all damn day...IF...if your flue is clean and your cap is clear....IF you have no leaks (like an open cleanout door which you don't have) and IF your wood is really seasoned......IT'S GOTTA GO.

It sure acts like a restricted flue or bad wood.

Here is my plan. With your advise and others I will let the stove die down tonight...and use the oil..argh. First thing in the morning I will drop in at the home depot and buy a sweep...any recommendations on one for a flex liner?...and completely sweep her out and give it another go. I also hope that the birch I purchased at the depot in bags is plenty dry which it seems because it torches up really quickly. I really hope this will solve it. Thanks again all for your attention
 
davenorthshorema said:
woodconvert said:
I've been thinkin' about this all damn day...IF...if your flue is clean and your cap is clear....IF you have no leaks (like an open cleanout door which you don't have) and IF your wood is really seasoned......IT'S GOTTA GO.

It sure acts like a restricted flue or bad wood.

Here is my plan. With your advise and others I will let the stove die down tonight...and use the oil..argh. First thing in the morning I will drop in at the home depot and buy a sweep...any recommendations on one for a flex liner?...and completely sweep her out and give it another go. I also hope that the birch I purchased at the depot in bags is plenty dry which it seems because it torches up really quickly. I really hope this will solve it. Thanks again all for your attention

I'd get up there first and even see if you need to sweep it...if so, go fetch a brush.
I gotta tell ya....this aint rocket science but this is a stumper.
 
A clogged chimey though not impossible seems unlikely after just a few fires......make sure your
baffle is pushed all the way back and is not restricting your draft.
 
bluefrier said:
A clogged chimey though not impossible seems unlikely after just a few fires......make sure your
baffle is pushed all the way back and is not restricting your draft.

Another good point. I used my poker and added pressure to my baffles to see if they are set back and they were. I think we are getting closer and closer to the solution...i can just feel it....
 
This fire look a mess. Please ignore the fogged up glass and the less than desirable burn. I thought a picture would help. I just snapped this and the temp was slightly above 400 Can someone, if this picture is clear enough, can tell whether the secondary is going or not. I'm not an expert but it just doesn't seem this way. Thanks again
 

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Looks like there is some secondary burning happening. Not aggressive, but towards the back it seems to be starting.

bluefrier has a good point. If the ceramic baffle isn't tight to the back of the stove, the gases will take the path of least resistance a will shortcut up the back of the stove.
 
davenorthshorema said:
This fire look a mess. Please ignore the fogged up glass and the less than desirable burn. I thought a picture would help. I just snapped this and the temp was slightly above 400 Can someone, if this picture is clear enough, can tell whether the secondary is going or not. I'm not an expert but it just doesn't seem this way. Thanks again

I'm lookin' at the pic....WHERE'S THE WOOD?????. I see a good coal bed....but there isn't anything sitting on that heap o' coals.

Right now, with that coal bed...if you crack the front door is it really suckin' the air like it wants to pull the door shut???
 
davenorthshorema said:
Just bought store bundle firewood, all paper birch and the stove will only top off at 400 wide open for the last 4 hours. This is really concerning. Is it possible the air intake is clogged a bit or could it be something else. I also noticed that the secondary air tubes are not gushing out flames thru the holes like it used to. Any idea's????
First thing, that's an insert, not a stove, so it runs a lot cooler than a stove; the blower cools it down.

If I run my insert wide open I'd be lucky to get the door top to 400F. The primary air comes in above the door so obviously the high flow with a wide open damper keeps that area cool.

To make fire you need draft. The high airflow helps establish draft at low temperatures but at higher temperature it lowers the draft. This is because the high airflow cools the flue.

Another thing, it doesn't take four hours and tens of pounds of wood to get a stove up to temp. Try making a fire with at least 10 pounds of wood and no pieces greater than 1" x 1". Light it, burn for ten minutes wide open and close to half or less. This should easily get your insert up to operating temperature within 20 minutes. After that you should be able to load it up with about 25 pounds of pieces of various sizes, give it some air for 10-20 mins, closing down in steps. With the fresh load it should stay over 400F for at least 4 hours.
 
woodconvert said:
davenorthshorema said:
This fire look a mess. Please ignore the fogged up glass and the less than desirable burn. I thought a picture would help. I just snapped this and the temp was slightly above 400 Can someone, if this picture is clear enough, can tell whether the secondary is going or not. I'm not an expert but it just doesn't seem this way. Thanks again

I'm lookin' at the pic....WHERE'S THE WOOD?????. I see a good coal bed....but there isn't anything sitting on that heap o' coals.

Right now, with that coal bed...if you crack the front door is it really suckin' the air like it wants to pull the door shut???

Yes...there is a vortex of air that gets sucked into the stove.
 
bokehman said:
davenorthshorema said:
Just bought store bundle firewood, all paper birch and the stove will only top off at 400 wide open for the last 4 hours. This is really concerning. Is it possible the air intake is clogged a bit or could it be something else. I also noticed that the secondary air tubes are not gushing out flames thru the holes like it used to. Any idea's????
First thing, that's an insert, not a stove, so it runs a lot cooler than a stove; the blower cools it down.

If I run my insert wide open I'd be lucky to get the door top to 400F. The primary air comes in above the door so obviously the high flow with a wide open damper keeps that area cool.

To make fire you need draft. The high airflow helps establish draft at low temperatures but at higher temperature it lowers the draft. This is because the high airflow cools the flue.

Another thing, it doesn't take four hours and tens of pounds of wood to get a stove up to temp. Try making a fire with at least 10 pounds of wood and no pieces greater than 1" x 1". Light it, burn for ten minutes wide open and close to half or less. This should easily get your insert up to operating temperature within 20 minutes. After that you should be able to load it up with about 25 pounds of pieces of various sizes, give it some air for 10-20 mins, closing down in steps. With the fresh load it should stay over 400F for at least 4 hours.

HMM. I thought I was clear on my first post that this is a Regency Insert...which still happens to be a wood burning stove. I also have a switch that shuts the fan off which i did and still had difficulty getting the stove up to 400. Now correct me if I am wrong but I am assuming all stoves should be able to reach the 400 degree mark at ease. Not to mention stay at the level for at least an hour before cooling down to 250 degrees. Sorry if my frustration lashes out on you but like I stated on a previous statement...while my inlaws were in town a month ago with outside temps around the 20's such as know...i had the stove at 450 with the fan on full. Something seems to have changed from then until know with the cooler weather...thanks again for the additional help all.
 
I took the cap off and checked the liner and it has maybe an 1/8" of soot creosote on the flex liner. Is this enough to change the draft? Should I sweep?..
 
davenorthshorema said:
I took the cap off and checked the liner and it has maybe an 1/8" of soot creosote on the flex liner. Is this enough to change the draft? Should I sweep?..

I'm wondering if the creosote buildup can be more closer to the stove rather than the top of the liner...
 
davenorthshorema said:
davenorthshorema said:
I took the cap off and checked the liner and it has maybe an 1/8" of soot creosote on the flex liner. Is this enough to change the draft? Should I sweep?..

I'm wondering if the creosote buildup can be more closer to the stove rather than the top of the liner...

Typically that's not where you'd get buildup....the farther you get from the stove (last few feet of the flue, cap) is where it's usually the worst. BUT...that's not to say a chunk didn't break off and fall down there.

An 1/8" shouldn't change your draft...though, being a month old and you say your wood is good...i'm kinda suprised you have any buildup.

Here is what i'd do. Clean the chimney so you know exactly where you are at. Make sure it's clean top to bottom. Inspect any flue joints to make sure you don't have any leakers that would inhibit draft. Once that is done, get a fire going as hot as you can, get a good coal bed going and maintain it (keep adding wood as necessary). Take 4 or 5 splits of your 2 year seasoned wood and put it right in front of the stove (standing on end) for a few hours (make sure you are home while doing this...don't leave the house!!!). You can put the wood on your hearth about a foot from the stove. After that wood has cooked for a few hours, load em into the stove and see if you get better results.

If there is no blockage when you are cleaning then it really sounds like your wood isn't up to snuff...but we'll find out.

Can you post a pic or two of your 2 year seasoned stuff???. Close-up would be helpful.
 
Hi folks,

Well.....at the risk of sounding like this is a central Mass conspiracy thing, I'm having the same issue. If I may offer my thoughts and suggestions....(wood burning gurus, please correct me if I am wrong in my thinking, I'm still in learning mode).


I have an Englander nc-13 insert, Lowes brand Summer Heat to be exact.


This issue started when the temps dropped into the 20's and lower, at least for me.

I did not notice you saying how your flex pipe is installed, (insulated, all or some, the length, interior/exterior chimney, etc).

I think in my case, part of the issue is the piece of solid, uninsulated pipe I have running out the top of the chimney.
I have a full flex liner, insulated near the damper area up about 2 feet, also insulated at the top of the chimney, under the cap, down the flue about 2 feet. I do not have insulation between those 2 points so my pipe contacts the flue here and there. (Could not fit an 6 inch, insulated pipe in there and there was no way I was going to put a smaller, 5.5 inch, insulated pipe in there with my short chimney length. If anything, I'll fill the flue with perlite or whatever it is, if I think the cold is a huge issue). Exterior chimney. Since I wanted to meet the minimum length of 15', as some here suggested, I added 3 feet of solid pipe to the top of the cap. (I'm thinking that this is remaining quite cold during initial start and that keeps the draft from working at peak efficiency, but, my draft seems to be fine.....

Without going into my complete layout, let me offer this. After reading the suggestions on this post, I changed my starting procedure.
Basically, get that thing up to 500 at the pipe.


Remove the plates around the insert, if you installed them, and stick one of those Rutland temp guages on the pipe. As a backup, (and plus it reacts faster to temp changes), I placed a 400 degree, dial style, meat therm against the pipe. I have it sitting on the lip of the extension where the pipe collar goes into the stove. I do not have it sitting on the stove top at all. (It's an insert, the top plate of the thing is insulated by an air gap. This is where the blower pushes out the hot air, thus cooling the top plate a bit....for those that are unfamiliar with insert design).
Anyway,

1- Put a few small splits in, softwood if you have it, (PINE RULES!!), top with kindling, top with tightly rolled newspaper. The idea here is to get that insert and pipe heated up fast and hot.

2- This is where we may differ in setting since I only have one damper lever. ( I think that some have 2?). I use the door as my primary air control to get things going......
After torching the newspaper, I close the door to an inch, (the door latch resting against the outside of the insert case). I can hear and see the draft work fine. Much like taking a propane torch to the paper and wood.

3- Once the kindling is burning, I close the door to 3/4 inch. (the door latch now resting on the inside of the insert case.

4- Now here is where you need to sit with the stove and figure out what it likes. Once my the primary wood is burning, I close the door to about 1/2 to 1/4 inch, ( turning the door lever about 1/2 the way onto the insert latch). I now watch the temp guages and the flame to see what it wants to do. Sometimes, this extra closing drops the heat and the flame dies a bit. In that case, I open the door a tad, ( by lifting the door lever a bit). If the heat goes up, I leave it this way and see if the heat at the pipe will hit 500. If yes, I will leave it here for a bit then close the door all the way and use my damper to control the air.
If not, I close the door just a bit more, (a slight tap on the door lever). This sounds counter intuitive, but one poster on this thread gave the reason why this works.......I think it was in this thread, and watch the guage and the flame. Sometimes this does the trick.............sometimes not.
If I have to add wood to get the temp up, I do, and will have to play with the door opening a bit to get it firing. Oh, and don't make these adjustments one after the other in quick succession. It takes a minute or two or three for the flame to make adjustments to the airflow adjustment.

5- To keep the temps up, I add wood, hardwood if I've been using pine for the startup, when the coals are about 2 - 3 inches in size, or whenever I can get a couple of good size pieces in there. I do not let the coals go to ash in colder weather. ( Some folks here let their stoves go down to ash or close to it. I can't do that in cold weather because one, the house cools off, and two, it takes too long and too much fiddling to get the stove up to temp again). I watch the temp guage to make sure I am not letting it get to cold at the pipe, 250 or below, while wood is getting to the coal stage.

In the end, try to get the heat up as close to 500 at the pipe, for as long as you can, however you can. It seems to me that once you can warm the room and house up to a comfortable temp, it's easier to maintain the warmth at lower stove temps.

My insert can be a finicky bastard. One day it will get to 500 degrees no problem, another day, same outside temp and conditions, same wood, not so easily. I may have to run the insert with the door open a tad to keep the temp up, sometimes I can close the door and the draft lever down low and keep the temp up. Yeah, you can burn through wood quickly getting the thing at peak performance. That's why I use pine to get things going.

Sorry for the long post and the step by step. I did that for the other newbies like myself that may be reading this. I hope this can help you.

Take care,
Mr_Pither
 
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