Stoves under 1.0 g emissions

[trucha]

Does anyone know of any stoves that are under this amount? I would like to go as clean as possible and be under any new EPA proposed rules.

 

[Stump shot]

Try this.
(broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf)

 

[branchburner]

Go with a cat, like BK or one of the new Woodstock hybrids. The EPA is talking about 2.5, then 1.3. Most of those cats/hybrids will get you to the 1.3.

I would not worry about going below 1.0. The current crop of cats will get you close enough.

 

[begreen]

About the closest you are going to see that target hit will be with the Woodstock Ideal Steel.

 

[mellow]

Travis Cape Cod or Hybrid Fyre would put where you want to be on paper. Personally I wouldn't bother with the paper and burn it in my stove that heats my house the best right now.

 

[Heatsource]

BK sirroco 30
.97

 

[trucha]

Thanks for the answers. I did some research and it looks like in the next 5 years the standards will go down on emissions and only a handful of stoves meet that criteria now. My area restrict old non epa ,certified stoves on certain days. So I will be in the clear for now but I am worried if I buy a stove that doesn't meet the future requirements then I won't be able to use them as much in the future. I think the new standards will bottom out at 1.3 in the next 8-10 years.

 

[trucha]

I should have titled my thread "stoves under 1.3" since that is the magic number.

 

[draughtdude]

So, essentially the new epa rules will kill off non-cat stoves?

 

[Poindexter]

So, essentially the new epa rules will kill off non-cat stoves?

Essentially. However, previously unregulated stoves with A:F ratio >50:1 probably can meet the new regs fairly easily. For most users in most climates a cat equipped stove will probably be the way to go. However, if building from scratch a properly sized masonry heater can function efficiently at >50:1 when designed with secondary combustion in mind. Very difficult to retrofit of course...

 

[begreen]

We'll see. There are some expensive European stoves like Wittus Twin-Fire that can burn this clean without a cat. And the recent testing in Brookhaven shows some promising new approaches for cleaner burning that I hope will show up on stoves. If you all recall the Mulciber crew from U of Maryland, they were there again and have been perfecting the stove. They got the highest score and even tested well burning damp wood. There was an intriguing New Zealand design (VcV) that essentially put barometric dampers on both the primary and secondary air that performed well in a retrofit, so we'll see.

http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2014/11/rookie-wood-stove-makers-get-highest.html?utm_source=December 2014 Newsletter&utm_campaign=Dec Newsletter&utm_medium=email

 

[BKVP]

We'll see. There are some expensive European stoves like Wittus Twin-Fire that can burn this clean without a cat. And the recent testing in Brookhaven shows some promising new approaches for cleaner burning that I hope will show up on stoves. If you all recall the Mulciber crew from U of Maryland, they were there again and have been perfecting the stove. They got the highest score and even tested well burning damp wood. There was an intriguing New Zealand design (VcV) that essentially put barometric dampers on both the primary and secondary air that performed well in a retrofit, so we'll see.

http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2014/11/rookie-wood-stove-makers-get-highest.html?utm_source=December 2014 Newsletter&utm_campaign=Dec Newsletter&utm_medium=email

BeGreen,

The new Twinfire has dual cats. I saw it in action at Brookhaven.

Also, all of you that have not read the 354 pages, you must look closer. Currently all standards are predicated upon a weighted average of 4 burns, each defined by kg/hr burn rates.

The 2015-2020 proposed 4.5 gr/hr is still based upon 4.5 gr/hr using crib fuel and method 28.

The 2020 and on is quite different. The 1.3 IS NOT ACHIEVABLE by many stoves, if any at all, because it is 1.3 gr/hr on the worst burn. IT IS NOT WEIGHTED AVERAGE!

For example, a catalytic stove that has a weighted Average of 1.3 gr/hr may score as follows:

Low: .66 gr/hr, Medium Low: .89 gr/hr, Medium High 1.09 and High 2.01

The stove above FAILS THE PROPOSED "No burn to exceed 1.3 gr/hr" and cannot be sold.

 

[begreen]

Thanks Chris, I missed the cats on the Wittus. Also, the testing was not done according to EPA protocol IIRC.

 

[Poindexter]

Also, all of you that have not read the 354 pages, you must look closer. Currently all standards are predicated upon a weighted average of 4 burns, each defined by kg/hr burn rates.

The 2015-2020 proposed 4.5 gr/hr is still based upon 4.5 gr/hr using crib fuel and method 28.

The 2020 and on is quite different. The 1.3 IS NOT ACHIEVABLE by many stoves, if any at all, because it is 1.3 gr/hr on the worst burn. IT IS NOT WEIGHTED AVERAGE!

I'll have to read that durn thing again. Thanks for the head's up. I have been playing with rocket stoves in the backyard, those finicky little SOBs are either stalled or running like a tornado. I don't see one ever functioning at four significantly different burn rates.

 

[BKVP]

And if all this is not enough of a challenge, EPA could require cord wood testing in 2020. Change the standard, change the interpretation of the results and change the methodology.

Hope you boys get NG someday.

 

[Poindexter]

And if all this is not enough of a challenge, EPA could require cord wood testing in 2020. Change the standard, change the interpretation of the results and change the methodology.

Hope you boys get NG someday.

If we "get" NG it is not going to be cheap. I am starting to think if they sell the 2 hundred million cf of NG they are re-injecting on the North Slope every day they will end up having to import 2 hundred million cf of Texas mud to keep the pressure up at the well head. The person paying for shipping the actual mud will be the person with the new NG appliances.

Any guesses on how big or small a piece qualifies as "cordwood"? I almost got next winter's wood split, which means soon I can get my firebricks back out and play with blocks some more.

In 2020 the combustor in my Blaze King will still have four years left on the warranty.

 

[BKVP]

The sizes used and total weight will vary based upon size of firebox.... preliminary discussions continue.

 

[trucha]

OK, now I am confused. does anyone know what the proposed EPA standards will be? I have found conflicting info on the web and on EPA's own website. The reason I ask is that there is a law in my area that states your stove must be epa certified to run and if it is not than you may not run it on certain days which turns out to be most winter days here. So for now I would OK but when the new EPA regs went into place I would be restricted on my burn days.

 

[begreen]

So far as I know your regs (and WA Puget Sound region) are for existing EPA phase 1 and phase 2 certification. There are no burn bans based on a future and still unknown regulation. If you get a modern clean burner you should be fine.

 

[Highbeam]

One risk is that you will not be able to buy the stove you want all of the sudden because the regs have made it unavailable and/or uninstallable.

The other risk is that the clean air folks will decide that they can reward adopters of some new technology by allowing only the use of that technology under the guise of saving the children.

Two seperate scenarios that are both ugly. The first scenario is far more likely. Just look at what happened back when they began to certify stoves. Lots of manufacturers went bankrupt. We were better off in the end I think since the surviving manufacturers complied and offered the cleaner product.
I have lost a lot of respect for the clean air agencies when they require 20% opacity within 6 minutes of startup. They are obviously out of touch with reality and just tightening the screws a little at a time to eventually accomplish their agenda of outlawing all wood burning.

 

[Highbeam]

If you get a modern clean burner you should be fine.

For the time being. Maybe in a few years that modern clean burner will be outlawed or only allowed to be burned on certain days.

 

[Huntindog1]

Check out the Alliance For Green Heat website.

http://www.forgreenheat.org/

http://www.forgreenheat.org/policy/epa_policy.html

 

[trucha]

Yes, my area requires stoves to be "epa certified" in order to burn them on "no burn days" (which are about 50% of days in winter including all of the previous week). So if I buy a new stove now I will be able to use it until 2020 when the regulations change and it will be no longer "epa certified" hence I will not be able to burn it on "no burn days" I am wondering if that means I should just comply with the future regs now. ( I guess that means buying the ideal steel stove).
Or just buying one that is now epa certified and in 5-8 years figure out what to do.

 

[trucha]

On the bright side, my parents live near the Woodstock factory and I am going to check it out over Christmas.

 

[sportbikerider78]

One risk is that you will not be able to buy the stove you want all of the sudden because the regs have made it unavailable and/or uninstallable.

The other risk is that the clean air folks will decide that they can reward adopters of some new technology by allowing only the use of that technology under the guise of saving the children.

Two seperate scenarios that are both ugly. The first scenario is far more likely. Just look at what happened back when they began to certify stoves. Lots of manufacturers went bankrupt. We were better off in the end I think since the surviving manufacturers complied and offered the cleaner product.
I have lost a lot of respect for the clean air agencies when they require 20% opacity within 6 minutes of startup. They are obviously out of touch with reality and just tightening the screws a little at a time to eventually accomplish their agenda of outlawing all wood burning.

...and the company with the new technology will be a huge contributor to the next backwards congressman or presidential campaign.

If anyone thinks the any govt organization exists to help the environment or help the taxpayer,,,i have a bridge for sale.