Suggestions on an OWB

[Eagle Rock]

Hi all - Just trying to get an opinion on OWB (like a CB 1450). My house is 2500 square feet and I've been using oil almost exclusively for heat and hot water. I do have a VC Defiant but haven't used it much as the wife gets nervous about it. My house is 10 years old, pretty well insulated, etc. Last year I used about 800 gallons of oil at around $3.70 a gallon. About the same amount the year before as well. Just doing some quick math I've spent about $6000 over the last 2 years on oil. I was looking for any opinions from current or previous owners. Good and bad. I don't mind cutting wood so that isn't an issue. I do work 12 hr shifts though and am gone from the house for 13hrs minimum when working with travel time, etc. so I'm looking for a pretty good burn time on one. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[flyingcow]

have you priced out outdoor wood boilers in your area?

 

[Coal Reaper]

800gals/yr upstate aint bad at all for 2500sqft. 1000 gallons of storage would probably do you right for 13 hours. my 2500sqft 2x6 construction with 1000gals storage required 3 loads/day only when it got below 10*, or 15* with a stiff breeze. we used 1000gals oil for 2012/13 and 6 cords last year plus another cord in summer for DHW.

 

[Eagle Rock]

OK....here's my update. Brand new CB 1450 is $11000 minus $600 rebate. I pick up 1.5 hrs away. $10400 plus whatever neighbor charges to go with his truck and trailer. Same neighbor has a 2008 CB 2300 phase 2. I think it has 400+ gallon water tank in it. He wants $5000 for it. Good deal? Anyone run this particular model that can chime in? Price good for this 6 year old model? Just as a comparison the new CB 1400 is about $11500 from the dealership. Thanks for any advice.

 

[flyingcow]

The reason I ask the price is I bought a middle to high end gassification wood boiler, plus storage tank for the same price i could but an E-Classic. The set up I have burns significantly less wood than the E-classic. If you burn seasoned wood, which you need to anyways in an E-Classic, these gassification wood boilers will not smoke. Basically figure 1 cord of wood =150/175 gals of oil with a gasser. The figures given to me by the E-Classic salesman was 1 cord of wood = 100 gals of oil. Just my thoughts.

Another thought, have you looked at pellet boilers? There are some nice Euro brands that are doing a really good job. The price of pellets is very close to the price of wood. And it's a lot less hassle. You're going to need at least 8 cord of wood per year, if you go the OWB route. Figure you need wood to season at least 1 yr, you'll need room 16 cord of wood stacked.

Another thought. I put in an air sourced heat pump last year. performed pretty good up here in northern Maine last winter. They have their limitations,but if you can heat your 2500 sq/ft house on 800 gals of oil, you got a pretty tight house. Maybe an HP would work well.

If you're going to burn wood, it needs to be cut/split/stacked for at least one yr.

Welcome to Hearth. Good people here, with some good input and experience.

 

[hobbyheater]

OK....here's my update. Brand new CB 1450 is $11000 minus $600 rebate. I pick up 1.5 hrs away. $10400 plus whatever neighbor charges to go with his truck and trailer. Same neighbor has a 2008 CB 2300 phase 2. I think it has 400+ gallon water tank in it. He wants $5000 for it. Good deal? Anyone run this particular model that can chime in? Price good for this 6 year old model? Just as a comparison the new CB 1400 is about $11500 from the dealership. Thanks for any advice.

IMO the CB 2300 is going to be too big. With a max output of nearly 250,000 BTUs per hour is going to be too big for your small demand and will idle most of the time and will just gum up with tar like creosote.

I hope some others on this forum will chime in, but I hope you will take a second look at a small gasser with storage in a small out building.

(broken link removed to http://www.newhorizonstore.com/Products/88-eko-gasification-boiler.aspx).

Myself I've heated with gasification with storage for 30 years and before that with conventional boiler without and with storage and creosote in the boiler and chimney is a major headache and hazard!

 

[hobbyheater]

Our first boiler and a long time ago, much like a OWB without the cute little house around it. Burned and belched 22 cords per year.


Our second, a triple pass downdrafting cast iron, burned 16 cords per year and that dropped to around 10 cords per year when 1,000 gallons of storage was added but could really creosote the chimney to the point where the only way to clean the chimney was to burn it clean twice a week, scary.

Our third boiler, a Jetstream with 1,000 gallons of storage and the same load, has burned around 4 1/2 cords per year for the last 30 years and the chimney almost never needs to be cleaned .
Our heating load is much like yours. In the winter we go an average of 40 hours between firings.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Eaglerock: Welcome to the Hearth!

If you are not sold on an OWB, You are in the right spot. Read through and enjoy! The contributors here are committed to clean efficient burning.

there is high, middle and low price ranges on the indoor gassifiers. On this forum you will see all brands and they all work well. Some take more and some take less user input to get up to a satisfactory performance level.

Currently we know very little about your home you are trying to heat. known: 2500s.f.

1.most efficient: boiler and thermal storage in home
2.boiler in outbuilding divorced thermal storage in home
3.boiler and thermal storage in out building

Consideration should be given to ease of use because With your extended day most likely others will need to operate your boiler. with that in mind I would consider high end units.

Disclosure: I am not a dealer or installer. I am in market for a boiler and initially was leaning toward OWB-gasser, but $ scared me into further education. Been burning solely wood for years. Last year burned oil solely just to have a good baseline for actual heat load and ease.

Suggestion: obtain wood now if you have no dry wood ready. Cut and split and stack. I would cut 16" in case you can get by with smaller boiler.

Fire away with more details on home and enjoy the education and helpful characters you will meet.

 

[Eagle Rock]

IIuote="NE WOOD BURNER, post: 1738870, member: 25754"]Eaglerock: Welcome to the Hearth!

If you are not sold on an OWB, You are in the right spot. Read through and enjoy! The contributors here are committed to clean efficient burning.

there is high, middle and low price ranges on the indoor gassifiers. On this forum you will see all brands and they all work well. Some take more and some take less user input to get up to a satisfactory performance level.

Currently we know very little about your home you are trying to heat. known: 2500s.f.

1.most efficient: boiler and thermal storage in home
2.boiler in outbuilding divorced thermal storage in home
3.boiler and thermal storage in out building

Consideration should be given to ease of use because With your extended day most likely others will need to operate your boiler. with that in mind I would consider high end units.

Disclosure: I am not a dealer or installer. I am in market for a boiler and initially was leaning toward OWB-gasser, but $ scared me into further education. Been burning solely wood for years. Last year burned oil solely just to have a good baseline for actual heat load and ease.

Suggestion: obtain wood now if you have no dry wood ready. Cut and split and stack. I would cut 16" in case you can get by with smaller boiler.

Fire away with more details on home and enjoy the education and helpful characters you will meet.[/quote]
I

 

[flyingcow]

[quote="Eagle Rock, post: 1738872, member: 17737"]Fire away with more details on home and enjoy the education and helpful characters you will meet.[/quote]

I [/quote]


Don't pick on Fred61......

 

[Eagle Rock]

I do have 8 cord cut and split already. Rarely used the wood stove last year as my wife gets nervous about the fire in the house. Only time it was used was when I was home. I thought the 2300 might be too big as well which is why I was asking opinions on that.

My house was built in 2003. Insulated foundation so the basement is pretty warm in the winter with no heat source. I have 2 car garage under the front if the house which we rarely use. Living level is 70 feet long with 2 bedrooms on 1 end and master on the other. Large open living room with 20 foot cathedral ceiling. House is pretty air tight. I have a system 2000 furnace with in demand oil fired hot water. Wife and 2 kids of which one likes long hit showers. Guess which one.

I have no current storage but do have room. I guess I'm asking if I should just try out the 2300 since the price is right or will I have issues.
Thanks

 

[Eagle Rock]

Sorry for the typos in my last post as I'm using my phone for this.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

IMHO-pass on the 2300 and the 1400.the 1450 from what I'm reading is working ok for what it is.
Sounds like your house is perfect for Boiler and storage in garageunder!

 

[BoilerMan]

Just to try out the 2300 is going to be a bit of work in itself. If I'm reading this correctly, your wife does not want fire inthe house....

I assume your house has "standard baseboard" like sunray or slant fin. These need 150+ degree water to produce any appreciable heat. That is a factor as well.

TS

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

and you save 14.50 a foot for underground waterlines.

 

[Fred61]

Stay away from that large boiler. IMO an oversized boiler will cause you more heartache an discontent than a boiler that is too small. If you make he mistake of installing boiler that is too small you can just shake your head and grumble a bit. If you install one that is too big you will be living with smoke, plugged flue, an oozing creosote forever.

Considering your oil consumption I would recommend a 40KW boiler with 1000 gallons of storage. Lots of good ones out there.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Considering your oil consumption I would recommend a 40KW boiler with 1000 gallons of storage. Lots of good ones out there.

That seems to be the setup that works well from what I'm reading. I believe that was the solution to the last thread on this question also.

 

[hobbyheater]

I have no current storage but do have room. I guess I'm asking if I should just try out the 2300 since the price is right or will I have issues.
Thanks

Some questions?
Do bylaws in your local allow OWB's?
How close is your nearest neighbor ?

 

[flyingcow]

Eagle rock, are you any kind of a DIY'r? Buy a good gasser and build your own storage. Put the gasser in 8x12 insualted building, run underground to storage that is located in the house. I have my boiler next door in an unattached garage. Storage is in basement.

When you get a minute look at you tube and search for gassification boilers.

Do a google search for Tarm, Vigas, Econoburn, GARN, Eko, and others here will chime for their favorite brand of gasser.

I think even a 30k unit will work good. System 2000? Nice oil set up. How many btu's is the oil boiler you have now?

Good to hear you have 8 cord dried. Now go do 8 more cord for 2 winters from now.

Pay attention to what Hobby heater posted for his experience. He's been there done that.

 

[flyingcow]

BTW, an OWB having 400 gallons of water jacket is not the same as what we're calling "storage".

 

[flyingcow]

http://www.ahona.com/index.html This is a dealer in central ny. Good guy to talk to. No presure.

 

[Eagle Rock]

Some questions?
Do bylaws in your local allow OWB's?
How close is your nearest neighbor ?

My zoning officer told me I have nothing to worry about as I'm on about 10 acres....setbacks, etc will be ok. My nearest neighbor is a good distance - probably 2500+ feet away. Plus he already has one (actually 2). He is the one that had an older CB 5036, took it out and installed this CB 2400 but now says he wants to go back to his old one. He said it isn't heating his barn the way the old one did. Which is why I became skeptical when he just threw it out there that he would sell it for $5000. I thought (from what I've read) that the 2400 would be too much for me and cause the problems that everyone has already mentioned. I guess my comparison would be burning the wood stove too cool, building up the creosote in my chimney. Of course he said no way but I know he wants to unload the unit pretty badly. He forgets I was in sales for 15+ years. I've seen the "No problem" response before. The dealer I contacted told me the 1450 is all I'd need. They haven't sold the 1400 in 3 years. So I guess I'd be looking at the 1450.

Also, from what I'm told, any "new" boilers in NY have to have that EPA hangtag of "Phase 2" which for the OWB discussion leaves me with limited selection if I go that route.

 

[Eagle Rock]

Eagle rock, are you any kind of a DIY'r? Buy a good gasser and build your own storage. Put the gasser in 8x12 insualted building, run underground to storage that is located in the house. I have my boiler next door in an unattached garage. Storage is in basement.

When you get a minute look at you tube and search for gassification boilers.

Do a google search for Tarm, Vigas, Econoburn, GARN, Eko, and others here will chime for their favorite brand of gasser.

I think even a 30k unit will work good. System 2000? Nice oil set up. How many btu's is the oil boiler you have now?

Good to hear you have 8 cord dried. Now go do 8 more cord for 2 winters from now.

Pay attention to what Hobby heater posted for his experience. He's been there done that.

I'm a bit of a DIY'er but have limited time to get things done. Wife doesn't want involvement in it - she basically says do what you need to do but we better be warm in winter. Forgive my ignorance but I don't know the BTU's of the furnace. I know it has 4 zones of which we don't even use 1 of them (loft). Really dumb question but what is meant by "storage" in the basement? The reason I was gonna research the OWB is because of the simplicity of the set up. My run from house to boiler could be as short as I want it as I feel I could put it anyplace and still have it not be an eyesore. I figured the OWB would be the easiest route. No?

In my original post I said 13 hr days which was kind of misleading. I do have the ability to get home most work days even a few times a day as long as it isn't crazy so I could refill most work days.

Also, the dealer I spoke with stated "from his experience I should use about 4 cords per season". He said that's from previous customers that have bought the 1450. I know everyone is different but it's a starting point I guess.

Before I forget - we don't use the garage because it's already crammed with 4 wheelers, etc. Believe me, I'd love to get into a car with no snow in the dead of winter!!

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

He said it isn't heating his barn the way the old one did

Which tells Chapters!

There are only 3 OWB that I considered CB,Portage and Main and Econoburn. For me they did not make economic sense. The Econo burn OWB is not yet approved in NH. so that left 2. Further reading on the e-classics changed my mind on that one. Portage and Main looks appealing and has a good rep in NE.

Simplicity I would look at the Garn Jr.

High end Gasser I like the Froling

Take your oil usage and convert to BTU's. Then convert btu's to cords of wood.
I burn 6-8 in my wood stove and my oil usage comes out to 8 from last year.
So converting to boiler I don't want to increase my wood consumption to standby heat loss to OWB.

 

[Eagle Rock]

Which tells Chapters!

There are only 3 OWB that I considered CB,Portage and Main and Econoburn. For me they did not make economic sense. The Econo burn OWB is not yet approved in NH. so that left 2. Further reading on the e-classics changed my mind on that one. Portage and Main looks appealing and has a good rep in NE.

What turned you off to the CB vs. the Portage?