Suggestions to replace DW 2461?

[Mryank9]

Hey everyone

Currently have a Dutchwest 2461, I'd say about 6-10 years old (came with the house I bought about 18 months ago). My first wood stove experience and generally loved it. This past winter was a bit more of a pain (replacing parts, couldn't keep fire controlled, etc) and have read that these stoves are often a pain to maintain due to all the parts and pieces. My home is just over 1,200 sq ft, one floor ranch. Currently the stove is sticking out of the fireplace with a 6" SS tube going up through the brick chimney. I'd love to try and replace the stove this summer before the coming winter. Does anyone have any suggestions? New stove would most likely need to have rear exhaust rather than top, and I'd like to stay with a catalytic stove, unless someone reason to go non-cat. I've attached a couple pictures to give you an idea of what I'm working with. Still fairly new to this game so open to any suggestions! Thanks

 

[Grisu]

A cat-stove with rear-exhaust would limit you pretty much to a Woodstock stove. The Fireview probably for the area you want to heat and if the DW was adequate. Should you consider a non-cat you will have a larger selection: Jotul F500 or F50, Quadrafire Explorer 2, Hearthstone Shelburne or Heritage, Morso 3610

Your fireplace looks like it has a pretty good size. How high is it? Maybe you could even fit a top-vented stove in there. Another option would be a fireplace insert. If that is an interior fireplace you won't lose heat with an insert. Instead you will be using the bricks as added thermal mass; essentially creating the effect of a masonry heater. The Blazeking Princess insert would then be an option if you prefer a cat stove. You will lose the ability to cook on the stove/insert, though. Warming up the room from a cold stove may also take a bit longer with an insert that sits in that fireplace.

 

[begreen]

Woodstock Keystone.

 

[Mryank9]

Thanks! I'll have to measure it and get back to you. Is there a major difference between a cat and non cat? In terms of burn time, efficiency, etc?

 

[begreen]

The Woodstock Keystone is a cat stove. It will have a longer burn time at a low fire. At a high fire the burn time will probably be the same as a non-cat stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

Toward the end of last season I put the 2460 back in to try it out after I sealed the vertical seams inside the firebox with stove sealer/gasket cement, and replaced all the gaskets. That thing is running great now, and I have total control of the air going into the stove. I actually have to leave the air open some so as not to snuff the cat. I'll fix an air leak in the Keystone and have it ready to go, but I'll run the Dutchwest to start the season. Who knows, it may stay in there for a while. Heating 1000' here. Yeah, the VC parts are a bit pricy compared to Woodstock parts, but as long as your stove hasn't been over-fired, resulting in warped parts, you should be good to go with minimum expense. I'd run that stove next season to give you time to do your research....there are a lot of stoves out there. Gasket set was about $60 from woodmanspartsplus.com. I'll get the link and post it. I bought the Woodstock because I liked the Dutchwest grated ash system and cat combustor. Keystone has a bigger window. I'm hanging on to both stoves and waiting to learn more about the Woodstock 211, due to be beta-tested this winter. I'm looking for the features I like, plus a box with welded seams that will never leak.

major difference between a cat and non cat? In terms of burn time, efficiency, etc?

Cats use the least wood, burn longer and can be run at really low output in spring and fall. The 211 is a hybrid, tubes and cat, and should do it all (good reports so far on the Woodstock IS, the 211's big brother.)

 

[Mryank9]

A cat-stove with rear-exhaust would limit you pretty much to a Woodstock stove. The Fireview probably for the area you want to heat and if the DW was adequate. Should you consider a non-cat you will have a larger selection: Jotul F500 or F50, Quadrafire Explorer 2, Hearthstone Shelburne or Heritage, Morso 3610

Your fireplace looks like it has a pretty good size. How high is it? Maybe you could even fit a top-vented stove in there. Another option would be a fireplace insert. If that is an interior fireplace you won't lose heat with an insert. Instead you will be using the bricks as added thermal mass; essentially creating the effect of a masonry heater. The Blazeking Princess insert would then be an option if you prefer a cat stove. You will lose the ability to cook on the stove/insert, though. Warming up the room from a cold stove may also take a bit longer with an insert that sits in that fireplace.

Just measured..the fireplace opening is 29.5" high and 20" deep

 

[Woody Stover]

Got dry wood for this winter? Looks like your glass isn't too gunked up, so I'm guessing you do...

 

[Woody Stover]

OK, I re-read some of your other threads. Sounds like you've done a lot of work and you're still getting too much air. Did you seal the vertical corner seams inside the box? Did you burn a stick of incense to see exactly where it's sucking air from? I used "Stove Sealer and Gasket Cement" which is a little thinner than regular furnace cement and gets into the seams better. As far as the web, looked like the gaps at the angled sides had small pieces of interam gasket in them, so I cut a couple pieces and folded them double, the long way. If you're ready to cut your losses (I might be inclined to get a little more mileage out of the parts if I had invested in them,) the Keystone is a great stove, or a small Blaze King might be good (although I prefer having the stove out on the hearth.) Not sure if the BK has a grated ash system...that's a must-have feature for me. If you can keep running the Dutchwest, the 211 should be the least expensive of those three and more flexible, being a hybrid. If you've got warped parts and have a hard time getting the gaskets to seal, you can try building up the underside of the gasket with cement to get a tighter fit. Looks like the front door may be leaking on the latch side, as the window is dirtier there...
I'm going to go through my SIL's 2460 soon. I'd like to get her stove tightened up so I don't have to cut as much wood for her. Mine wasn't too bad as far as warpage; Hopefully hers will be in decent shape as well (she bought hers new about 15 years ago.)

 

[Grisu]

Is there a major difference between a cat and non cat? In terms of burn time, efficiency, etc?

A cat stove will give you a more even heat output, longer burn times (especially when run on low or medium), cleaner burn, and slightly higher efficiency. Drawbacks are:
- The need for occasional cat replacements (about every 5 to 8 years seems to be the consensus here although BK has tested cats and found many were still working after 10 years).
- To not harm the cat burn only untreated firewood (no paint, pressure-treated lumber etc.) and approved firestarters (or b/w paper).
- Check the door gaskets frequently (leaky door gaskets are the major cause of cat failure according to BK) and Woodstock cats should be taken out and brushed off a few times per season.
- A more limited selection than secondary burn stoves (especially for inserts) and usually a higher price tag (or better: I don't know of any "budget" cat stove maybe with the exception of the Woodstock Ideal Steel at its current introductory pricing although is still more than 2x expensive than an Englander NC30).

Just measured..the fireplace opening is 29.5" high and 20" deep

The fireplace looked taller in the picture; a top-vented stove is probably out of the question then. I guess the previous owner cut down the legs from the DW. Is there only slab or a basement underneath the stove?

If you want to go for a rear-vented stove you will need to check for the height of the flue exit. The Jotuls could be too tall for example. Woodstock stoves should be ok. How well was the DW heating your home? It's possible that the slightly smaller Keystone is enough although for a cat stove I see no drawback in going a bit larger with the Fireview and enjoying longer burn times.

If you consider a catalytic insert, the BK Princess should fit. For a non-cat insert take a look at the Pacific Energy Super. It gets some of the longest burn times for a medium-sized secondary burn stove. The masonry from the fireplace will even out the temp swings. I have the same insert/setup and could not be happier.

 

[aansorge]

Here is a used woodstock...just make sure it is a Cat model...(broken link removed to https://hartford.craigslist.org/for/4553359923.html) and maybe talk them down to 900.

 

[Todd]

I heated my 1200 sq ft ranch with my Keystone in the worst Wisconsin Winter ever. 3 loads per day during the coldest below zero days and two loads during average temp days.

 

[Mryank9]

What exactly does the soapstone do in a keystone?

 

[Todd]

What exactly does the soapstone do in a keystone?

It helps even out the heat and gives a softer feel

 

[HotCoals]

Makes it look pretty!

 

[Mryank9]

Really is a nice looking stove.. Does it have an ash pan for cleaning it out?

 

[Todd]

Really is a nice looking stove.. Does it have an ash pan for cleaning it out?

Yes, very good ash pan system

 

[Mryank9]

Sorry for all the questions..are they generally rated better than any of the VC stoves like the one I currently have?

 

[Todd]

Sorry for all the questions..are they generally rated better than any of the VC stoves like the one I currently have?

Go to the stove ratings section on this site and judge for yourself. Woodstock makes a great product and has great service.

 

[Grisu]

Sorry for all the questions..are they generally rated better than any of the VC stoves like the one I currently have?

One place where Woodstock really shines compared with VC is its customer service. Woodstock only sells factory-direct. That means every time you have a question/problem you immediately talk to the people who design and build the stoves. Quite a few users here have taken a trip to the factory to pick out their stove and got a tour and a chat with the Woodstock guys on top of it. Woodstock is also the only stove company I know that offers an unconditional 6-month "like it or return it for a full refund"-guarantee. Give them a call with your questions and I think you'll see pretty quickly what I am talking about.

 

[Woody Stover]

Does it have an ash pan for cleaning it out?

Yes, similar grated ash-handling system to the 2461; Just swirl a poker through the ashes and they fall through the grate into the pan, leaving the coals in the stove. No muss, no fuss.

are they generally rated better than any of the VC stoves like the one I currently have?

An unhappy Keystone owner will be hard to find. They look good, are easy to run, and are solidly built. Mine had a leaking seam which has gotten worse and will necessitate taking the stove apart to some extent to remedy. I figured it wouldn't be too hard to fix, so I didn't return the stove at the beginning. Todd told me that indeed, the job isn't too involved. Sure, I could slap some stove sealer in there and call it a day, but I'll just go ahead and do it right. When you have no dealer to go to, it helps if you are comfortable working on your stove, which it sounds like you are. Dealers are a crap shoot anyway...

I guess the previous owner cut down the legs from the DW....Jotuls could be too tall for example. Woodstock stoves should be ok. How well was the DW heating your home? It's possible that the slightly smaller Keystone is enough

He's got the short-leg kit on that stove, and I think Jotul may offer them as well. I have 28.75" lintel height, and the Keystone rear-vents with room to spare. Same as the 2460 so switching stoves is easy for me. The Keystone is rated at higher output than the Dw in the EPA tests, but I haven't yet run the Dw in the dead of winter with truly dry wood. Looking forward to that this winter. The 2460 box does hold slightly more wood but I get plenty long burns in the Ks at medium or low output. Always plenty of coals left for a re-load even at 12 hrs or more on low...probably way longer than the OP's leaky Dw.

 

[Mryank9]

A cat stove will give you a more even heat output, longer burn times (especially when run on low or medium), cleaner burn, and slightly higher efficiency. Drawbacks are:
- The need for occasional cat replacements (about every 5 to 8 years seems to be the consensus here although BK has tested cats and found many were still working after 10 years).
- To not harm the cat burn only untreated firewood (no paint, pressure-treated lumber etc.) and approved firestarters (or b/w paper).
- Check the door gaskets frequently (leaky door gaskets are the major cause of cat failure according to BK) and Woodstock cats should be taken out and brushed off a few times per season.
- A more limited selection than secondary burn stoves (especially for inserts) and usually a higher price tag (or better: I don't know of any "budget" cat stove maybe with the exception of the Woodstock Ideal Steel at its current introductory pricing although is still more than 2x expensive than an Englander NC30).


The fireplace looked taller in the picture; a top-vented stove is probably out of the question then. I guess the previous owner cut down the legs from the DW. Is there only slab or a basement underneath the stove?

If you want to go for a rear-vented stove you will need to check for the height of the flue exit. The Jotuls could be too tall for example. Woodstock stoves should be ok. How well was the DW heating your home? It's possible that the slightly smaller Keystone is enough although for a cat stove I see no drawback in going a bit larger with the Fireview and enjoying longer burn times.

If you consider a catalytic insert, the BK Princess should fit. For a non-cat insert take a look at the Pacific Energy Super. It gets some of the longest burn times for a medium-sized secondary burn stove. The masonry from the fireplace will even out the temp swings. I have the same insert/setup and could not be happier.

The DW I have did a great job, house was consistently 75+ (have oil heat as well if needed). Is the Keystone rated roughly the same as the 2461? Or would the Fireview be the better choice in that regard

 

[Woody Stover]

The DW I have did a great job, house was consistently 75+ (have oil heat as well if needed). Is the Keystone rated roughly the same as the 2461? Or would the Fireview be the better choice in that regard

The Fireview is a sweet-looking stove, but the window is smaller and no ash pan. You can see the cat in the Ks from the couch. Fv puts out a bit more heat but I don't think you will need it if the Dw was doing the job.

 

[begreen]

Both will work. FWIW, Todd was/is heating 2000 sq ft with his Keystone. 1200 sq ft should be fine if the house is reasonably sealed. But give Woodstock a call and ask what they think.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/woodstock-keystone-vs-hearthstone-heritage.67869/

 

[midfielder]

Both will work. FWIW, Todd was/is heating 2000 sq ft with his Keystone. 1200 sq ft should be fine if the house is reasonably sealed. But give Woodstock a call and ask what they think.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/woodstock-keystone-vs-hearthstone-heritage.67869/

We live about 10 minutes from the Woodstock facility - just swapping the pellet stove into a studio space and went with a Keystone for the main house; wife needs quiet(!) In winter we have about 1300 ft to heat - house is old but ok for insulation and tightness. The good people at Woodstock told us that the the Keystone, Palladian, or Fireview would all be fine for our needs and that the Progress and Ideal Steel would be so far overkill that we'd hardly be able to get any benefit from the secondary. We went with the Keystone on that and the basis of looks: