Support box question

[NHWS]

First post here. Been reading for several months. I've looked for the answer to this question, but haven't come across it.

I am looking to replace a 1970's wood stove that has not been used for years. At this point, my first choice is the BK King KE40, although I am also considering the Princess PE32 to keep the cost down.

The old stove has an 8" single wall flue, straight up through the cathedral ceiling. The chimney is probably galvalume. Total length is about 15 feet. I expect to replace at least the indoor flue, and probably the outdoor chimney. I'm not the original owner of the house, and there are no records about the installation details.

I can do inside work myself, but not the outside work (acrophobia).

After contacting every BK dealer within 200 miles of Seattle, I haven't been able to get consistent info about the flue and chimney. The problem is the support box.

One BK dealer said that the flue and chimney replacement will be very simple; they say that there are adapters that can securely attach new inside and outside 6" or 8" parts to the existing box.

Another dealer says that an 8" 1970's era support box has to be completely replaced, which probably requires $5 to $10K of roof work.

Another said they don't know, and aren't interested.

Various other answers from other dealers.

There are two chimneys in the outdoor picture. The one in question is to the left.

I'd appreciate any information: can new 6" or 8" pipe be attached? Pointers to resources that might help, other than general searches for "support box" on this site? Pointers to BK dealers or others (chimney sweeps?) in the Seattle area that return messages, provide consistent information, and would do the work?

$5K to $10K of roof work plus a stove and new pipes is not in the budget. If it really takes that, then I won't be replacing the old stove.

 

[bholler]

First post here. Been reading for several months. I've looked for the answer to this question, but haven't come across it.

I am looking to replace a 1970's wood stove that has not been used for years. At this point, my first choice is the BK King KE40, although I am also considering the Princess PE32 to keep the cost down.

The old stove has an 8" single wall flue, straight up through the cathedral ceiling. The chimney is probably galvalume. Total length is about 15 feet. I expect to replace at least the indoor flue, and probably the outdoor chimney. I'm not the original owner of the house, and there are no records about the installation details.

I can do inside work myself, but not the outside work (acrophobia).

After contacting every BK dealer within 200 miles of Seattle, I haven't been able to get consistent info about the flue and chimney. The problem is the support box.

One BK dealer said that the flue and chimney replacement will be very simple; they say that there are adapters that can securely attach new inside and outside 6" or 8" parts to the existing box.

Another dealer says that an 8" 1970's era support box has to be completely replaced, which probably requires $5 to $10K of roof work.

Another said they don't know, and aren't interested.

Various other answers from other dealers.

There are two chimneys in the outdoor picture. The one in question is to the left.

I'd appreciate any information: can new 6" or 8" pipe be attached? Pointers to resources that might help, other than general searches for "support box" on this site? Pointers to BK dealers or others (chimney sweeps?) in the Seattle area that return messages, provide consistent information, and would do the work?

$5K to $10K of roof work plus a stove and new pipes is not in the budget. If it really takes that, then I won't be replacing the old stove.

View attachment 303539 View attachment 303540

If you are replacing the chimney you replace every part of the system including the support box and flashing

 

[rwhite]

I would replace it all. I really can't fathom there being $5-10k of roof work to replace the flashing. I'd buy everything and get some quotes from a reputable roofer to install the flashing.

 

[Highbeam]

First post here. Been reading for several months. I've looked for the answer to this question, but haven't come across it.

I am looking to replace a 1970's wood stove that has not been used for years. At this point, my first choice is the BK King KE40, although I am also considering the Princess PE32 to keep the cost down.

The old stove has an 8" single wall flue, straight up through the cathedral ceiling. The chimney is probably galvalume. Total length is about 15 feet. I expect to replace at least the indoor flue, and probably the outdoor chimney. I'm not the original owner of the house, and there are no records about the installation details.

I can do inside work myself, but not the outside work (acrophobia).

After contacting every BK dealer within 200 miles of Seattle, I haven't been able to get consistent info about the flue and chimney. The problem is the support box.

One BK dealer said that the flue and chimney replacement will be very simple; they say that there are adapters that can securely attach new inside and outside 6" or 8" parts to the existing box.

Another dealer says that an 8" 1970's era support box has to be completely replaced, which probably requires $5 to $10K of roof work.

Another said they don't know, and aren't interested.

Various other answers from other dealers.

There are two chimneys in the outdoor picture. The one in question is to the left.

I'd appreciate any information: can new 6" or 8" pipe be attached? Pointers to resources that might help, other than general searches for "support box" on this site? Pointers to BK dealers or others (chimney sweeps?) in the Seattle area that return messages, provide consistent information, and would do the work?

$5K to $10K of roof work plus a stove and new pipes is not in the budget. If it really takes that, then I won't be replacing the old stove.

View attachment 303539 View attachment 303540

I bought my BK in Bremerton from kitsap lumber. They’ve been selling bk for decades. They can recommend installers but Seattle is a decent commute. I have been happy with them though I only purchased my stove there.

Your low pitch comp roof is super easy to repair around the new flashing. It’s just like any other roof jack including that newer looking gas flue in the photo.

You’ll love a BK for our climate. Plenty of heat on low to keep most homes warm and get those long burn times.

Separate vendors for stove, install, and roofing if the installer isn’t confident or reasonable.

 

[NHWS]

I bought my BK in Bremerton from kitsap lumber. They’ve been selling bk for decades. They can recommend installers but Seattle is a decent commute. I have been happy with them though I only purchased my stove there.

Your low pitch comp roof is super easy to repair around the new flashing. It’s just like any other roof jack including that newer looking gas flue in the photo.

You’ll love a BK for our climate. Plenty of heat on low to keep most homes warm and get those long burn times.

Separate vendors for stove, install, and roofing if the installer isn’t confident or reasonable.

Thanks for the reference. I left a couple of messages with them last week; didn't hear back. Was there anyone in particular there you would recommend? Bremerton is a fair distance (I'm in eastern King County), but I can pick up the stove and parts from there if the details of the installation can be arranged. If I can get in touch with them, I'll ask about installers.

The other large chimney (rightmost) is for another 1970's wood stove on a different floor of the house. I've never used it. Both flues and caps are original with the house.

I'm OK with replacing the flue, box, and chimney. If the box and chimney also need to be replaced, then I'll stick with the less expensive Princess. but that means a 6" pipe with an existing 8" hole in the roof. This is supplemental heat, so scaling back a bit would not be a problem. I'd consider other brands of stove, but the box would still be the sticking point.

Going through one vendor avoids some problems, but I've tried that. No joy. Separate vendors are OK if necessary. I'm not sure who besides stove dealers is familiar with support box and chimney installation.

There is an additional complication: there is someone in the house with a compromised immune system. I can have people working outside, but I have to do the inside work myself. I've got enough remodeling experience that it shouldn't be a problem, except that I don't know anything about support box installation. I'm inclined to be cautious with hot things going through a wood ceiling.

 

[NHWS]

I would replace it all. I really can't fathom there being $5-10k of roof work to replace the flashing. I'd buy everything and get some quotes from a reputable roofer to install the flashing.

Agree that $5K - $10K doesn't seem right. That was one answer; another dealer said I would be able to use the existing box and chimney and just replace the indoor flue. Also didn't sound right. I'm getting contradictory info from BK dealers, so I figured I'd ask here.

I can find a reputable roofer. Are roofers likely to know enough about installing support boxes safely? I don't see many comments from roofers on this site.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks for the reference. I left a couple of messages with them; didn't hear back. Was there anyone in particular you would recommend? Bremerton is quite a distance (I'm just outside Duvall), but I'm able to travel there to pick up the stove and parts if the installation works out.

In theory I'm OK with replacing the support box. A BK King might be affordable if the other costs aren't too high, and it would be a better fit for the house. Is it plausible to connect a new inside flue pipe to that box? Not sure what the condition of the outside chimney is, but if the connection is possible, then I could have the chimney inspected. If I can't attach the KE40's 8" flue to the existing box, or if the chimney is not in good enough shape, then I'll go with the Princess. Less expensive stove parts, but that would be a 6" support box in an 8" hole.

Haven't used one yet, but all of the info I have makes the BK's my first choice. I'd consider other brands, but the support box would likely still be the sticking point.

I'd prefer to deal with one vendor, but I've tried that. No joy. Separate vendors are OK, but I'm not sure who besides stove dealers is familiar with support box and chimney installation.

There is an additional complication: there is someone in the house with a compromised immune system. I can have people working outside, but I have to do the inside work myself. I've got enough remodeling experience that it shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know anything about support box installation, and I'm inclined to be cautious with hot things going through a wood ceiling.

So the head guy at kitsap is named Shane. Or was the last time I was there.

Stove dealers, especially common for BK, sell stoves. They usually refer you to an installation contractor who would normally be able to do the full installation including roofing. Those installers can pick up the stove at the stove dealer or you can pickup.

Obviously some stove dealers do it all either with their own staff or with a behind the scenes second company.

Look for chimney sweeps or get references from the stove dealer.

The ceiling support box is easy to install. I’ve done them too. The directions are clear. Getting the roof penetration and flashing right takes more skill. Especially with your cathedral ceiling.

Most people in your shoes would just replace the stove and the cheap interior pipe up to the ceiling box but leave a chunk of the old black pipe if it is solid. The existing single wall pipe is fairly universal unlike double wall which is very different between manufacturers so it will probably hook right up.

All you need to do is get the stove in place and connect it to the old chimney if the old chimney is still safe and acceptable. Can you have that verified? An approved inspection of that existing chimney would make your insurance company happy as well as the approved installation permit for the new stove. The chimney sweep that inspects your old chimney would be a great candidate for any installation work you need.

You’re going to have a city inspector on your house for this. A permit is required.

 

[NHWS]

So the head guy at kitsap is named Shane. Or was the last time I was there.

Stove dealers, especially common for BK, sell stoves. They usually refer you to an installation contractor who would normally be able to do the full installation including roofing. Those installers can pick up the stove at the stove dealer or you can pickup.

Obviously some stove dealers do it all either with their own staff or with a behind the scenes second company.

Look for chimney sweeps or get references from the stove dealer.

The ceiling support box is easy to install. I’ve done them too. The directions are clear. Getting the roof penetration and flashing right takes more skill. Especially with your cathedral ceiling.

Most people in your shoes would just replace the stove and the cheap interior pipe up to the ceiling box but leave a chunk of the old black pipe if it is solid. The existing single wall pipe is fairly universal unlike double wall which is very different between manufacturers so it will probably hook right up.

All you need to do is get the stove in place and connect it to the old chimney if the old chimney is still safe and acceptable. Can you have that verified? An approved inspection of that existing chimney would make your insurance company happy as well as the approved installation permit for the new stove. The chimney sweep that inspects your old chimney would be a great candidate for any installation work you need.

You’re going to have a city inspector on your house for this. A permit is required.

The inspection rules are different out here in unincorporated King County. Not sure what they are at the moment, but that's findable. That may be a blocker; I can't have anyone who does not already live here in the house.

Already looking for a chimney sweep to do an inspection.

I haven't yet measured indoor flue clearance against the BK specs, but I suspect that it would sufficient. I'll check it, though.

I understood that main reason for using double wall pipe was to keep the exhaust hot to improve draw. If I could find some evidence that single wall pipe would work with a 15' stack; that new single wall pipe would fit the existing box; and if an inspection reported that the box and chimney were safe, I'd be very happy.

I'll try Kipsap again and ask about installers.

 

[begreen]

Do you have a truck or van to transport the stove? Have you also looked at the big Regency cat stoves?

 

[NHWS]

I've got a Subaru Outback (1000 lbs towing) plus a trailer with enough capacity, and I can move things around well enough. Not my first choice, but possible.

The Regency F3500 would likely work well. My wife prefers the more set-it-and-forget-it aspect of the Princess' thermostat, but otherwise the F3500 and the Princess appear to be comparable overall. The Woodstock 210a might also work.

I was not able to find a Regency dealer who would install in my area, either.

The problem is the installation. I can probably buy a stove from Kitsap Hardware or elsewhere in the PNW.

BKVP points out that buying from a non-local dealer means warranty parts but no warranty service. How likely are BK or Regency stoves to need warranty service?

It's possible that we're past the peak sales season, so if I can find an installer, I'll try going back to the local dealers to buy a stove without installation. Not impressed with any of the dealers, BK or Regency, so not convinced that their promised warranty service is worth much.

 

[NHWS]

My existing stove has an 8" single wall flue below the support box, and I've now been told that the chimney is 8" double wall Class A. Can anyone educate me about the possibilities of just changing the flue to 8" double wall? If that can be done, perhaps I don't need an installer at all - I just need a stove with an 8" flue, like the BK King or Regency F5200.

 

[kennyp2339]

My existing stove has an 8" single wall flue below the support box, and I've now been told that the chimney is 8" double wall Class A. Can anyone educate me about the possibilities of just changing the flue to 8" double wall? If that can be done, perhaps I don't need an installer at all - I just need a stove with an 8" flue, like the BK King or Regency F5200.

The inside issue for going with 8” or even 6” dvl pipe is at the support box and getting the right piece that will correctly marry the class a pipe to the dvl, since your current setup is older, finding the right dvl connector maybe tough if the ceiling support box / class a pipe company is no longer in business, first thing is to figure out the existing brand, then do a brand search online for a dvl adapter. The dvl pipe hangs from the adapter, then goes down to the stove collar for connection which is usually another type of stove collar adapter.