swiveling and re-sweating fittings in place?

[pybyr]

quick question- I've sweated plenty of copper over the years, but mostly for domestic supply, not hydronic, so I am most familair with smaller diameter stuff

on my primary loop, it turns out that I need to swivel a couple of 1.25 fittings to different angles, so that the tees exit in different directions than I'd originally built it with.

with the smaller pipes I've worked with in the past, I'd probably pull them entirely apart, heat them, wipe them, re-flux, and then re-solder from scratch- to make sure that I don't end up with pinhole leaks through voids or cold joints

with these diameters, that's a lot more intensive to do

am I likely to be OK heating, swivelling, and then applying extra solder, or am I best off doing the usual take-apart and re-fit?

thanks!

 

[chuck172]

Take them apart. If you try to spin them in place you probably will egg the fitting(make out of round). You need plenty of heat to do this and bigger tips. Good chance of cooking the flux.
Take them apart, clean, paste and do it right.

 

[mysticfalcon]

Its difficult to do well and pretty looking but once the fitting gets hot you can usually dump some flux on the joint and since its hot and runny it will flow around some. Then add some more solder. Not pretty and it doesn't always work well but it can be easier than disassembling everything.

 

[Eric Johnson]

You might get away with swiveling them, but you're probably ahead in the long run to take them apart and do it right. I might swivel a fresh joint, but never one that's been sitting for very long. The big trick with larger diameters is getting everything hot enough to get it apart, especially if it's at all wet. If you can heat it enough to swivel it, do yourself a favor and take it apart and re-do it right.

The risk you run by trying to cut corners is that you might get it all pressurized up and full of water, only to have a leak. Then it's infinitely more difficult to get everything apart, and you might find yourself wielding a SawZall.

 

[pybyr]

Thanks all-- I'll grab some new fittings and take it apart and re-do it.

I was originally thinking that I needed to probably do that, but then realized that I sometimes have a tendency towards overkill, so figured I should ask whether this was overkill or not. Now I know, and, with appreciation for all your input, I'll take the time to do it right.

As Eric says, any time I save now would be more than made up for in cursing myself if it leaks later.

 

[Eric Johnson]

You probably don't need new fittings, unless you plan to cut the old ones out. I always re-use fittings whenever possible, especially when you consider the cost of the larger diameters. You can clean the old solder off with steel wool after reheating the fitting, or by getting the fitting hot and then tapping it against something, preferably wood. The old solder flies right off and you've got yourself a pre-tinned fitting.

 

[Medman]

I made the mistake of using an inferior quality flux paste for the first few fittings. I was able to do what Eric said, and clean them for re-use. At $6.00 for a 1" copper Tee, I'm going to save whenever I can. The hours of time I lost with that cheap flux - chalk that up to experience gained, I guess. My plumber friend says he makes the same mistake sometimes - cutting corners just means you have a mess of corners to clean up at the end.

 

[mtnmizer]

I recently moved my shop air lines which are 3/4 L copper.
I reused most of the fittings. Heated to dissassemble. I cleaned out the
hot fittings with fine steel wool. Sanded, fluxed and resoldered no problem I also
have a reamer that cleans out a 3/4 fitting nicely cold . I did realign
a couple times too. Reheat and twist..... 125 psi no leaks...On a boiler
line I'd air test before filling with water.

Welding gloves and vice grips helped with the hot fittings.
My plumbing buddy claims they never reuse a fitting--yea right.
Saved a good bit of cash. MM

 

[Eric Johnson]

My plumbing buddy claims they never reuse a fitting--yea right.
Saved a good bit of cash. MM

As long as the customer is paying retail for new fittings (plus 15%), why bother?

Seriously, I know the pros look down on re-use, but I've been doing it for decades, and never had a problem that I could trace back to a reused fitting. Seems to me it's the responsible thing to do.

 

[Willman]

With pro labor rates its much cheaper to use new in my opinion. Spend 15 minutes @ ($??)
cleaning old fittings or use a new $? fitting. Also less call back issues.
Will

 

[pybyr]

With pro labor rates its much cheaper to use new in my opinion. Spend 15 minutes @ ($??)
cleaning old fittings or use a new $? fitting. Also less call back issues.
Will

I answered my own question tonight, and I'll pass along the answer in hopes it helps others

with 1/2 or even 3/4 copper, I agree that, especially if time is more abundant than $$$, it is possible to take pipe and fittings apart and re-use

but, at 1.25 inch size, at least with my skill level (more than beginner) and with a pro torch running on MAPP gas, the combination of heat and twisting and fiddling and friction to get existing fittings off renders the fittings too marginal to sensibly re-use

the tube (thickwall) was fine

 

[Eric Johnson]

I'm sure I'd have a completely different perspective if I was doing it for a living, instead of just fooling around in my spare time. BTW, I'll take all the used fittings anyone wants to give me. Considering the cost of gas and time spent running across town to Home Depot for a lousy fitting, I'm way ahead to recycle.

 

[mtnmizer]

One thing I noticed about the pro plumbers is that they all
use an air/acytelene torch set up. Lots of heat there, I think
lots more that even mapp. As I understand it, with the lead free
solder and doing jobs with maybe some moisture the extra heat
make it much easier.

I have an older house that everything is copper, 2 and 3 in copper
drains, the 4 is cast iron. Takes lots of heat to sweat a 3" 4way
judging by the scorching on the studs.. MM

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

One thing I noticed about the pro plumbers is that they all
use an air/acytelene torch set up. Lots of heat there, I think
lots more that even mapp. As I understand it, with the lead free
solder and doing jobs with maybe some moisture the extra heat
make it much easier.

Yup. 1/4" air/acetylene tip for normal work. 1/2" air-acetylene tip for big fittings, or where there's a drip of water, or anything else that needs to be fought-with...

Also good for starting the first fire in the boiler!

Joe