Thankful For The Hearth.com Community...

[BigCountryNY]

For the reassurance that I'm not alone in my firewood addiction. Despite having a log load delivered a couple of weeks ago, I spotted a tree service working on a tree for the power company today as I was leaving to head to Tractor Supply. So when I got home I jumped on the tractor, hitched up the trailer, and off I went to scrounge that red oak. Made two trips and left some on the side of the road for the next scrounger - however if it's still there tomorrow...

Today just reaffirms my sentiment that firewood is like money... there is no such thing as too much.

 

[PA. Woodsman]

Not being smart, but how do you know that it was alright for you to take it? Is any wood that tree services cut and leave lay free for the taking up your way? Just asking....

 

[BrotherBart]

Won't tell the whole story for the 20th time about the only time I was read my rights for picking up stuff to burn off the side of the road.

 

[BigCountryNY]

There is a 25 ft easement from the center of the road in my county and the tree services leave it there as the utility companies don't want to pay more for it to be hauled away. Now, if this was in someone's front yard in front of their house, I wouldn't just take it without giving them right of first refusal. However in this case it was an empty piece of land. Also, if you drive around our town you'll often find lots of woodpiles from trees that the utility companies cut with pieces that are just too big to load into a vehicle. The tree companies will even stack it nice and neat, although they usually only buck the pieces to 32"-36". I stopped by again tonight and picked up another load, as no one had disturbed the pile.

 

[PA. Woodsman]

That there sounds like a great source of wood!

 

[Oldman47]

There is a 25 ft easement from the center of the road in my county and the tree services leave it there as the utility companies don't want to pay more for it to be hauled away. Now, if this was in someone's front yard in front of their house, I wouldn't just take it without giving them right of first refusal. However in this case it was an empty piece of land. Also, if you drive around our town you'll often find lots of woodpiles from trees that the utility companies cut with pieces that are just too big to load into a vehicle. The tree companies will even stack it nice and neat, although they usually only buck the pieces to 32"-36". I stopped by again tonight and picked up another load, as no one had disturbed the pile.

There is no such thing as road frontage that doesn't belong to someone. If I had caught the SOB that removed all the wood from the road right of way when the utility took out several of my shingle oaks contrary to my wishes, I would have been pressing charges for sure. I may not have a house on that woodlot but that doesn't mean I don't own the wood on it. Always get permission. The county seat has a record of every land owner and failing to get permission is sheer laziness or maybe an intent to steal. I'll see you or your ilk in court. Theft is always theft.

 

[BigCountryNY]

There is no such thing as road frontage that doesn't belong to someone. If I had caught the SOB that removed all the wood from the road right of way when the utility took out several of my shingle oaks contrary to my wishes, I would have been pressing charges for sure. I may not have a house on that woodlot but that doesn't mean I don't own the wood on it. Always get permission. The county seat has a record of every land owner and failing to get permission is sheer laziness or maybe an intent to steal. I'll see you or your ilk in court. Theft is always theft.

Since you don't live in New York, I'll assume that you are speaking about how things are in Illinois. In NY there most certainly is a utility easement or right of way, and in some cases it is up to 100 ft. If a utility company cuts down a tree, bush, or otherwise to protect the interests of the electric grid they don't even have to leave it there if they don't want to. However most don't want to pay to remove it. The way NYSEG's easement is written, the Grantor (land owner) retains the right to cultivate the land in between poles and towers along the right of way. However, such activities cannot interfere with the equipment and the Grantee retains the right to perform any maintenance required to protect their assets. That said, the utility company could cut down whatever trees they deemed necessary and keep them for themselves with no recourse from the landowner.

 

[Oldman47]

My right of way reads almost the same as you are citing, which still gives the utility no rights of ownership for the wood crop I am growing on that land. The crop is mine, not theirs. If the tree is a threat, they are allowed to trim or cut it off at the ground but they have no right to remove that crop. They do not need to remove that crop to protect their lines from damage. There has never been any damage to overhead lines caused by tree trunks laying on the ground. Maybe they play fast and loose with it in NY but they had better not try to justify that removal to me. They will be brought up on theft charges if they do.

 

[BigCountryNY]

The problem in our area is that there are far more people who don't take care of their trees and therefore they die and rot or branches and leaders fall and take down power lines. It's likely why the easement is so aggressive. Knowing that going into it, I really can't get that upset if it were my property that they were cutting trees on. In your case however, I agree with you completely as the easement only allows for trimming and cutting, not removal. My preference is just to employ practical land management and then I get to call the shots and not leave it up to the utility companies.

 

[markam]

There is no such thing as road frontage that doesn't belong to someone. If I had caught the SOB that removed all the wood from the road right of way when the utility took out several of my shingle oaks contrary to my wishes, I would have been pressing charges for sure. I may not have a house on that woodlot but that doesn't mean I don't own the wood on it. Always get permission. The county seat has a record of every land owner and failing to get permission is sheer laziness or maybe an intent to steal. I'll see you or your ilk in court. Theft is always theft.

that is definitely a location issue. In my town, the city owns all property (and trees) along all roads. If wood is stacked in that strip, it belongs to no property. the city leaves wood all the time in that strip for people to take.

 

[therdlesstravld]

My right of way reads almost the same as you are citing, which still gives the utility no rights of ownership for the wood crop I am growing on that land. The crop is mine, not theirs. If the tree is a threat, they are allowed to trim or cut it off at the ground but they have no right to remove that crop. They do not need to remove that crop to protect their lines from damage. There has never been any damage to overhead lines caused by tree trunks laying on the ground. Maybe they play fast and loose with it in NY but they had better not try to justify that removal to me. They will be brought up on theft charges if they do.

If you said that to me I would laugh in your face. It never pays to act like a hardass and you could use some practice being human.

 

[jackatc1]

In my part of NY I own to the center of the road.
If the town / county clean the ditch's That dirt is mine if I want it.
The same for the tree's, whether by the town or county or NYSEG.
I own 2 miles of road frontage. Don't touch any of my wood.
State highways are different.

 

[Whitepine2]

In my part of NY I own to the center of the road.
If the town / county clean the ditch's That dirt is mine if I want it.
The same for the tree's, whether by the town or county or NYSEG.
I own 2 miles of road frontage. Don't touch any of my wood.
State highways are different.

Same here,before anything is cut I am required to sign an easement to power and or tel.Co
before anything is cut and I consider all cut wood is mine to do with as I please and yes I share
if anyone asks if no request take what you got and get OUT

 

[bags]

The right of way and ownership varies by state, county, and city or whatever municipality governs. All can differ by a lot. It all boils down to where easements and property lines truly lie. Many assume that their property extends into a right of way or state / county owned parcel. They are fooling themselves. Let's use a new home subdivision for example. Everyone in that hood thinks they own all the way to the curb on the street. WRONG! They even plant flowers and mow the grass between the sidewalks in 'their' front yards when in fact their true property line in their front yard starts say 25 feet back from the street curb.

People think they own everything thing they see out front to the street when in fact they would crap their pants if they really knew what they owed. Get a survey done. That already little front yard is much smaller in all reality. A survey with correct property lines and the court of law will dictate what is really yours. Again, this all varies by local laws and true property lines. Sure you can use it and mow it for the local government free of charge and they are happy you do but that does not mean you actually own that fancy grass you seeded out there. Sure they do not really care if you snag some downed wood. It's less they have to deal with and pay out for. Many homeowners are happy to give away that down tree in their yard for the same reason. So they do not have to deal with it or pay to get it gone. I will state this. IF the state or whoever truly owns that parcel of land wanted to sue you or press charges for taking their wood they would hand you your ass because it is theirs. Not yours.

Years back I did land survey so I am familiar with how it works in KY although those laws or rules have possibly changed. Not likely but things and parcels of land do get split up and things change. Not so much when it is state or county owned. For example where I live my true property line along the road starts at 50 feet from the center of the road. The 50 feet from center on both sides of the road belongs to the state of KY since I live on a state route. If it was a county road that could differ.

The 50 ft. from center is a state right of way owned by the state. Dirt, trees, grass, and all. Period. Your property is strictly within your property lines and does not conveniently extend onto any easement or neighboring tract. Neither does the wood, weeds, or anything on it.

 

[bags]

I want to reiterate that true property lines and easements can and do vary by state or where the property lies so some with differing opinions could be right about what is theirs or not. Some could be way wrong too. Don't assume a damn thing. Know your boundaries people.

For example I live out in the country and if I decided I wanted to fence across the front of my acreage then I had better have it on my property or the correct set back and not on their right of way. Otherwise the state could force me to remove it at my expense. No problems nor questions asked. I am not allowed to put a fence on their property and that holds true anywhere. And yes I mow that area for them so my stuff looks nice. Or their property out in front of mine.

I also collect whatever wood they take down and or leave but so could anyone driving down that state owned road if they beat me to it. There are no laws here against that. It is an unwritten rule and they encourage scroungers to snag it safely. Why else would they just leave it there for the picking.

Since the wood cut there is not within my property lines I could not sue them or press charges if they snagged the wood because technically it is not mine but the states. People do have some class and usually ask the homeowner who lives right there but they could be jerks and just take it and nothing could be done unless the rightful parcel owner wanted to pursue it. The government isn't going to waste any time chasing people down on snagging wood. it is a nuisance to them and the power co's.

I wouldn't get pissed either if someone came along and cut my grass because they felt like doing a good deed or wanted the clippings for compost. Rake my leaves and grab those too while you are at it. I promise I won't chase you down for cleaning up and maintaining my yard for free and Thank You by the way.

I can understand that utility co's might need permission in some areas. This is because they do not own the land where they need to trim back trees and such. Here since it is state owned they do not have those issues. They do along one area out in front of me because I own that field where they like to pull in bucket trucks. Otherwise getting to it is a major PITA or they would have to reach it from the road and shut down a lane of traffic. I could also deny them access because it is my land and force them to do it the hard way.

My main point is that many people assume they own others property just because it looks like it belongs with their property. Secondly, if the state, county, or city owns it there is nothing you can do about people scrounging the wood that came from that property even if it is conveniently laying right there in "your" front yard. Better be sure it is truly "yours."

Results may vary.

 

[bags]

Each easement can also vary and there are some for utilities that do in fact cross right over others personal tracts of land. Many of them everywhere you go in the U.S. With that said there are contracts and rights of both parties bound in the document. It all varies and simply depends on how they are written but there are specific instructions and restrictions for everyone involved. So although on paper you may own it, but in a sense, you do not because much of it you have zero control over or restrictions for the use of your land located within the easement.

Just another example of big business winning. They have access and get to utilize what technically belongs to you for free. They don't pay property taxes on anything in that easement but you do since it is on your deed. All of that legal crap aside there is a benefit usually for the person who's name is on the deed. That would be that the easement land is lower in value due to the restrictions bringing the overall taxes down in costs.

Nobody likes restrictions and easements therefore it decreases said properties value and resale hence lowering the taxes. And no one can really complain because we all like and need electricity and utilities. Paying a fair price for those services is another discussion. Nobody likes getting their electric bill but damn sure do enjoy sucking from the grid to power the laptops to piss and moan about it.

Let's look at natural gas for another example. Some places pump it into caves or underground natural pockets for mass storage. Could be beneath your property too depending on where you live. That is not yours although it is beneath your land. The utility co. owns it. Drill down and tap into that and see what happens. It is controversial but big business will win no matter. Nowhere on your property deed does it state that you only own 50 feet down from your grass line. Again the utility co's beat you with another "easement" of sorts. Do they pay you rent for your underground storage? Nope.

Sorry to swerved a bit off track but it all ties in. Property lines and the rights of the owners do not wiggle around and change. Just know where yours are and what they are. This is usually best done before you sign the purchase contract.

Another thing for Oldman47, I agree with you on many levels (theft being one of them). I'm not familiar with what sorts of easements etc; you play by and I do not know about how your property lines read there but going after someone for snagging wood is a losing proposition IMO. Even if it is yours think about how much wood you can buy with what you will spend on a damn lawyer. Also I think we can thank lawyers for a lot of messed up deals in the U.S. I call them lawyers because attorney sounds a bit too professional for 90% of those scum bags. I can say this because I have some I am related to and yeah, they're scum bags.

 

[PA. Woodsman]

Holy cats Bags, you REALLY put a lot of effort into all that info! Wow, great job

 

[Hickorynut]

The right of way and ownership varies by state, county, and city or whatever municipality governs. All can differ by a lot. It all boils down to where easements and property lines truly lie. Many assume that their property extends into a right of way or state / county owned parcel. They are fooling themselves. Let's use a new home subdivision for example. Everyone in that hood thinks they own all the way to the curb on the street. WRONG! They even plant flowers and mow the grass between the sidewalks in 'their' front yards when in fact their true property line in their front yard starts say 25 feet back from the street curb.

People think they own everything thing they see out front to the street when in fact they would crap their pants if they really knew what they owed. Get a survey done. That already little front yard is much smaller in all reality. A survey with correct property lines and the court of law will dictate what is really yours. Again, this all varies by local laws and true property lines. Sure you can use it and mow it for the local government free of charge and they are happy you do but that does not mean you actually own that fancy grass you seeded out there. Sure they do not really care if you snag some downed wood. It's less they have to deal with and pay out for. Many homeowners are happy to give away that down tree in their yard for the same reason. So they do not have to deal with it or pay to get it gone. I will state this. IF the state or whoever truly owns that parcel of land wanted to sue you or press charges for taking their wood they would hand you your ass because it is theirs. Not yours.

Years back I did land survey so I am familiar with how it works in KY although those laws or rules have possibly changed. Not likely but things and parcels of land do get split up and things change. Not so much when it is state or county owned. For example where I live my true property line along the road starts at 50 feet from the center of the road. The 50 feet from center on both sides of the road belongs to the state of KY since I live on a state route. If it was a county road that could differ.

The 50 ft. from center is a state right of way owned by the state. Dirt, trees, grass, and all. Period. Your property is strictly within your property lines and does not conveniently extend onto any easement or neighboring tract. Neither does the wood, weeds, or anything on it.

Bags, I live on a state road in rural Kentucky and I thought they had easement from center of the road out to so many ft. out in your yard. If your right, which you seem like you know your stuff, hell I could stop off and pick up cut wood in somebodies front yard. I bet in most cases I would get run off, threatened to be shot, or the sheriff called on. Point being I guess, nobody knows the real truth. You got my curiosity up to where I am going to check. I recently cut an old dead locust in my front yard that had hardly any good wood in it. Damn, I should have called the state to come and cut their damn tree.

 

[Oldman47]

Sorry to swerved a bit off track but it all ties in. Property lines and the rights of the owners do not wiggle around and change. Just know where yours are and what they are. This is usually best done before you sign the purchase contract.

Another thing for Oldman47, I agree with you on many levels (theft being one of them). I'm not familiar with what sorts of easements etc; you play by and I do not know about how your property lines read there but going after someone for snagging wood is a losing proposition IMO. Even if it is yours think about how much wood you can buy with what you will spend on a damn lawyer. Also I think we can thank lawyers for a lot of messed up deals in the U.S. I call them lawyers because attorney sounds a bit too professional for 90% of those scum bags. I can say this because I have some I am related to and yeah, they're scum bags.

I am quite familiar with my property boundaries. The state has a right of way for the road that passes over my property. It extends 40 feet from the road center line. The utility has a right of way that overlaps the last 10 feet of the state right of way and allows them to do necessary maintenance on that 10 foot strip to protect the overhead lines. They do not have a right of way for buried utilities at all. I own from the center of the road, period. I am sure that the center of the road has moved around a bit since the right of way was established so I might not be able to measure the exact center of the present road to find my property line but the property boundary is well within the width of that 2 lane state highway and touches the property boundary for the people across the road. It is easy enough to find the true property line since concrete ROW markers are placed every half a mile or so along the road.
When it comes to theft, the only lawyer I would need ordinarily is called the DA and I pay for him with my outrageous taxes.

 

[bags]

Well then go after the wood thief. Keep us posted and let me know how that works out for ya.

Point being is they will laugh at you and your claim. Here is why. The utility co's are allowed to cut anything they feel they think needs to go to maintain their lines etc. Many times they will clean up the debris. They are granted that right. Period. There is nothing you can do about that even if your property line is indeed in the middle of the double yellow line center of the road. I'd double check that because many states actually deed their right of ways. Some counties as well but as I have stated that can vary from road to road, county to county, and by state. Even if yours is not deeded to the state, county, etc. your "ownership" of that easement is pretty much so worthless. I'll bet you money the DA will tell you exactly what I am saying right here but it's your battle so go fight it out. See how those big taxes you pay work out with your DA jumping thru hoops for ya. You are wasting you time. Let it go.

Even if your true property line is in the center of the road you have no recourse. Besides that did you see the guy who stole your wood? Can you identify him/her? I'm telling you you are wasting your time but good luck anyway. Also most easements do cover underground utilities also.

Go slam a fence up out there next to the road on "your property" about two feet from the roads edge to keep them from stealing your wood and report back what happens on that one too.

 

[markam]

You can see how it is for communities in my area. The black lines are the property lines and the city owns the rest.

 

[bags]

markam,
My point exactly. Although things can and do vary but your photo is the norm regardless and is SOP standard operating procedure almost everywhere in the U.S. It all revolves around what the facts are, what is written into the deeds and easements, etc. what has been grandfathered in, on and on.

I live in a rural setting and my right of way easement looks much like your photo where my true boundary line is set back from the center of the actual road. And yes, those right of way markers are there for a reason. It's because everything inside belongs to and /or is controlled by the state or local gov't. or city normally. This is done for a reason. Multiple reasons but primarily for stealing other peoples wood. Most exceptions are in rural communities or agricultural areas where at one time some old goat path was used as a property divide. Only place I've seen it anyway.

I'll cite another great example. Many times rivers and streams were used in the past. Well the flow and banks definitely change over time but the true property lines do not. KY owns the Ohio River all along OH, IN, and IL. Fact. This can be viewed as a boundary or easement of sorts and has been challenged time and again. Guess what? KY owns it just as they do the "easemnet" or right of way state route in front of my property. I'd bet IL has the same set up. Any takers?

Surveying is done with math and numbers established do not randomly change or morph over time even though a stream might change or a road may slide or slip. The lines stay right where they are no matter unless something is done legally to change or alter them.

If you look at your photo and perfect example your presented those front yards they are actually a lot smaller than most home owners and land owners think. From what I have seen and know it is pretty much the same everywhere. Neighborhoods, county roads, state routes, etc.

Now case in point if you walked that neighborhood or anywhere for that matter most people if asked where their property is will take you out and point at the edge of the road when it is actually back a ways. Most would argue you are wrong because they cut it or whatever other thought they may have as to why it belongs to them. And most would be shocked to learn the facts and what they own or how much smaller their front yards are.

 

[bags]

The best example in your photo is the home on the corner lot with the hip roof and angled driveway. Look at what could be perceived as his yard which he cuts every week and where their true property line is. That nice size corner lot just lost about 25% of its size. Quick guess there but I could put a true percentage on it given the proper info.

Sure they cut and maintain that but that does not correlate to them owning the part they cut for the community for free. And yes they can benefit and use it or let the kids run it but none of this changes where their property line starts and ends. Thanks for firing out that photo by the way because it is an excellent example and many take these things for granted.

Not trying to be a jerk or rattle cages here but facts are facts. Most would argue they own more property than the actually do on their parcel of ground.

 

[prezes13]

I work for a local municipality water dept to be exact. I look at city maps everyday and I have to agree with bags. The particular city I work for owns three feet from the curb, and I am not even talking about right of ways for sewer or water. City cuts trees and leaves them for grabs. First come first serve.

 

[billb3]

When the utility company wants to cut down trees under the power lines here they get permission from the property owner first to remove the whole tree rather than just trim back from the wires. There's a form to check off to 1. do not remove the tree, only trim it back 2.) the tree has to go do you a.) want the trunk b.) trunk and branches c.) want it all to go away

The town will do the same for trees that they have to remove for sidewalk/road repair. Make a contract with the homeowner to leave it or remove it.

You can't take wood from power lines that's been cut down as it is the property of either the landowner or the company hauling it out has compensated the landowner for it. That's how they do it here.

Storm damage that ended up in the street is fair game. The town usually hauls it away pretty quick. They might push it off the easement if you tell them you want it but you're better off removing it from near the edge of the road because people steal it if it is easy.