TMonter
Minister of Fire
You might drop a thermometer 2/3 the way up the pipe to keep an eye on the temperatures. That way you can be sure your pipe is staying hot enough.
Thanks Guys! Quad 5700 Install Pics
- Thread starter 5555555
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
Jim first of all all will agree I toned down my approach here I did nit cite connector lenght code. But questioned it and told you the reason why too much heat looss does a weaken draft and promote creosote build up TM made a great suggestion with a second surface mount Thermometer to monitor temps 2/3 ways up. I was quessing from a picture of your length I guesses an effective length of 20 ' 13 ' plus 5 more for the 2 45 drgree elbows I say that's a pretty good guess. Connector length can only extend up to 75% of the chimney length that would mean you would have 30' additional Class A above that wall thimble to make your connector length code complaint./
Ok there is a quick recall of the code
Here is what you have to do or should do TM suggestion of the second thermometer Now if you are experiencing hard startups back puffing smoke and just can't get that stove up to a good opperating range. Or note creosote dripping out you pipe of a huge temp differenvcce ftpm the thermo 2/3 the way up
You need Double wall pipe after two nights of opperations you will know that upper thermo will be telling you the story. You may not need all double wall pipe may just from elbow to elbow
I can't say for sure. but that area is the palce of your weakest draft and most effected with the elbows.
BTW Very nice looking setup
Ok there is a quick recall of the code
Here is what you have to do or should do TM suggestion of the second thermometer Now if you are experiencing hard startups back puffing smoke and just can't get that stove up to a good opperating range. Or note creosote dripping out you pipe of a huge temp differenvcce ftpm the thermo 2/3 the way up
You need Double wall pipe after two nights of opperations you will know that upper thermo will be telling you the story. You may not need all double wall pipe may just from elbow to elbow
I can't say for sure. but that area is the palce of your weakest draft and most effected with the elbows.
BTW Very nice looking setup
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
there is no good way to go from single wall to double wall and back to singe. You need to keep it consistantl. Go double or single. Double will help with draft problems, but it will not fix all draft problems. Looks like you dont have a draft problem so its a moot point LOL.
Starter
New Member
- Jan 31, 2007
- 79
5555555 said:
Stainless steel? So I guess it appears black because you've been using it for more than I have? Or are they painted with a high temperature resistant paint like the stove? My flue's stainless steel as well but for now the first 6 feet have changed colour - from original silver to gold, to copper, and so far to blue. Maybe with a couple more burns they'd turn black.
I don't have elbows. The first 9 feet of my flue is flexible stainless. The supplier told me that the maximum angle acceptable would be 45 degrees. Whether done with flexible or with solid.
I'm just interested in viewing your setup, I'm sure it's good heck your house is of wood! Stuff is different here. Thanks for the feedback!
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
There are rules of thumb about the length of single wall connector - one which I have seen is that single wall connector cannot run above combustible flooring - in other words, it must be kept over a hearth or tile floor. This usually limits the length right there.
In practice I have always tried to keep single wall pipe to 8 feet or less - maybe 10 feet max.
In this case, a lot of the proof is in the operation. If the stove draft well and creosote or water condensation is not a problem, then the vent is probably venting correctly.
In practice I have always tried to keep single wall pipe to 8 feet or less - maybe 10 feet max.
In this case, a lot of the proof is in the operation. If the stove draft well and creosote or water condensation is not a problem, then the vent is probably venting correctly.
elkimmeg said:
It is 50% of the chimney total length for solid fuel appliances under NFPA 211 Elk.
Edit: That is length of the horizontal run can be no more than 50% of the total.
BB to be honest I do not doubt to what you say about Nfpa 211. Right now our state is in transition between codes the sith edition overlaps 6 months of the adoption of our 7th edition on top of theat there is the internatiopnal codes for Mechanical applications then with stoves NFPA I admitted as to siting from memory but one can see confusion when one uses 4 codes
Corie
Minister of Fire
That is a long long run of single wall, but as Craig said, if it works than the heat loss from the pipe isn't a problem.
Esposita's family has 16 feet of single wall into their chimney and it still drafts like a demon child.
Esposita's family has 16 feet of single wall into their chimney and it still drafts like a demon child.
elkimmeg said:
Yeah it may have been different before Elk I don't know. 2006 says 50% for solid fuel and 75% for all other. I would worry more about support in that nice looking setup of the original posters than anything else. I don't place a lot of faith in the strength of those adjustable elbows. The reason I am replacing mine with a solid 30* after the season is over. I don't know how much of that double wall liner's weight is sitting on top of it.
But that is one nice looking installation he has. And I love that stove. It is a beast.
Guys,
None of the weight of the of the double wall pipe above the top angle is supported by the pipe. In fact, it supports the 6" single wall. There's kind of a box containing the double wall (or triple wall ?) where it passes through the roof. The double wall is somehow held securely within the box. At the bottom of the double wall, a cap with a male stub of single wall is attached to the double wall pipe with a thin steel compression band. I can pull down on this as hard as I can and it doesn't budge. The angle is then pressed over the male stub and held in place securely with screws. It seems to be pretty strong.
Is that ok?
Thanks,
Jim
None of the weight of the of the double wall pipe above the top angle is supported by the pipe. In fact, it supports the 6" single wall. There's kind of a box containing the double wall (or triple wall ?) where it passes through the roof. The double wall is somehow held securely within the box. At the bottom of the double wall, a cap with a male stub of single wall is attached to the double wall pipe with a thin steel compression band. I can pull down on this as hard as I can and it doesn't budge. The angle is then pressed over the male stub and held in place securely with screws. It seems to be pretty strong.
Is that ok?
Thanks,
Jim
Corie
Minister of Fire
Me too.
However, make sure you insulate the hanger from the pipe. If you just attached a metal band to the pipe and then to the ceiling, you're asking for trouble.
However, make sure you insulate the hanger from the pipe. If you just attached a metal band to the pipe and then to the ceiling, you're asking for trouble.
ourhouse
Minister of Fire
Thanks Earth. You're partially responsible!
Unfortunately, it looks like it might have to change. I put a magnetic external thermometer on the outside of the top angle. It reads between 175 and 200 F when I'm operating the stove at the typical temps I run. Based on the scale on the thermometer, that temperature is too cool and is forming creosote. Is that correct?
If so, I guess the only option is to change to double wall? Do they make black double wall pipe and double wall elbows? Any other ideas?
Thanks for the help.
Jim
Unfortunately, it looks like it might have to change. I put a magnetic external thermometer on the outside of the top angle. It reads between 175 and 200 F when I'm operating the stove at the typical temps I run. Based on the scale on the thermometer, that temperature is too cool and is forming creosote. Is that correct?
If so, I guess the only option is to change to double wall? Do they make black double wall pipe and double wall elbows? Any other ideas?
Thanks for the help.
Jim
Corie
Minister of Fire
THey make double wall almost everything.
Pipe, elbows, slip sections, etc. You name it, its probably made in double wall.
Pipe, elbows, slip sections, etc. You name it, its probably made in double wall.
Yes, black Duravent DVL double wall is what we have.
There is another option. This spring, move the stack over the stove and run it straight up. Patch up the old hole. It will look cleaner and the pipe should be cleaner too. And much easier to sweep.
There is another option. This spring, move the stack over the stove and run it straight up. Patch up the old hole. It will look cleaner and the pipe should be cleaner too. And much easier to sweep.
Corie
Minister of Fire
and it'll be free for the most part.
Double wall, especially the amount you're going to need, is NOT at all cheap imo.
Double wall, especially the amount you're going to need, is NOT at all cheap imo.
I'm with ya Corie. This seems like the best plan. It's a great stove in a beautiful home. Might as well make it perfect.
I suspected issues with that long run, adding the friction caused by the two elbows compounded the draft problems. That 175 /200 is definitely
with in the danger zone of creosote development. Again TM great idea with the therometer location.
Another issue not presented is ,
with that long run of single wall pipe and cresote development in it, should you have a chimney fire inside the single wall section. you have little protection
The heat would probably burst the snap seams and have a very hot intense fire within your living space Chunks of glowing flaminmg creosote would be blown many feet
when the seam burst. You also could get flaming dripping creosote.
That is another reason single wall length should be mininal
with in the danger zone of creosote development. Again TM great idea with the therometer location.
Another issue not presented is ,
with that long run of single wall pipe and cresote development in it, should you have a chimney fire inside the single wall section. you have little protection
The heat would probably burst the snap seams and have a very hot intense fire within your living space Chunks of glowing flaminmg creosote would be blown many feet
when the seam burst. You also could get flaming dripping creosote.
That is another reason single wall length should be mininal
Jim In the past I posted a pice of pipe that was pulled after an incident at a home. I look at it this way if I do my inspection job correctly and make sure each install is code compliant and safe I've done my job. That's one type inspection I do. The other one is when an incident occures and I investigate what went wrong. Naturally I prefere to do the installation inspection..
I wish I never have to do Disaster ones. but I learn for them. So far in 11 years of inspections not one of my disaster inspection did I originally pass that installation. It seems all disaster ones have occured with un permitted un inspected stoves. I have seen single wall pipe pass threw a wall into a closet then threw the ceiling and atic then out the roof. That place had an earlier fire caused by clothes in that closet ignited I was not called for the earlier fire. The sccond fire happend early Christmas morning when the Christmass presents were placed in that same closet. The fire dept had warned these people the first time. The second go around was not nearly as pleasent. The people got to live in a trailer while the fought with their insurance company and had what was left torn down for the rebuild. No permits were ever pulled for that installation. Now that is not a pretty picture or situation.
I wish I never have to do Disaster ones. but I learn for them. So far in 11 years of inspections not one of my disaster inspection did I originally pass that installation. It seems all disaster ones have occured with un permitted un inspected stoves. I have seen single wall pipe pass threw a wall into a closet then threw the ceiling and atic then out the roof. That place had an earlier fire caused by clothes in that closet ignited I was not called for the earlier fire. The sccond fire happend early Christmas morning when the Christmass presents were placed in that same closet. The fire dept had warned these people the first time. The second go around was not nearly as pleasent. The people got to live in a trailer while the fought with their insurance company and had what was left torn down for the rebuild. No permits were ever pulled for that installation. Now that is not a pretty picture or situation.
Corie said:
No it wont be free... notice the pitch of the roof, he exits at the peak now so probably has about 4' of triple wall. When he exits near the eve he will need at least 10' more triple wall to make 2' in 10' clearance.
- Status
Similar threads
