The Black Bear or the 2B Classic????? Got your ears on????

[pysh]

In the process of building a 1200' house along the channel in Kodiak, AK, and would like to put in a wood stove for secondary heat source. Open floor plan, 720' down, with 9' ceilings, and 480' up. Stairs located right down the center. Will be heating primarily with a Toyo, but hope to be burning a fair amount of wood as well.

I have been looking at the Jotul 118, or Black Bear, with long box, and 55,000 BTU output; the Morso 2b classic, another box stove, with heat exchanger on top, and ash pan below. Both super cool looking stoves, and supposedly solid little performers. Each has its strong points.

Anyone out there have experience with either contender???

Thanks for sharing,

Chad

 

[wg_bent]

The 2B has about the smallest firebox I have ever seen. Good for one split at a time, It's not a 24/7 heater. I also understand the latest 118, while bigger, is still a smaller firebox. Both those companies make nice 24x7 burners you should look at unless you just like the look.

 

[elkimmeg]

I have to second what Warren said. Neither stove has the firebox capacity to have extended heat capabilities. If you plan to reload every 2-3 hours and work the stove near capacity
It might work.. 55000 BTUs is vastly over rated output ,that will never happen in real world conditions. You would be lucky at 50% of that.
The side load option may allow one decent split ,but small others around it the bafflets get in the way.. Most people after purchasing these stoves wish they got larger firebox capacities.

These stoves are one room occasional heaters

 

[webbie]

You mentioned secondary heat source - so size may or may not matter.

But are you certain you are looking at the 2B - or the 2BO? I thought the 2B was just one level and the 2B0 was the one with the extra heat exchanger. If it is the 2BO, you obviously need a bit stronger of a chimney to pull the smoke around that thing - but it is a cool stove!

I've used a 2B, and it is a work of art - although I only used it to heat a large sunroom.

In size, I think from smaller to large

2b
black bear
1b (or bo)

Not sure if they still make 1B, but that was a larger model box stove.

So I do have experience with the older 2B - brown enamel.......we loved the look of it!

 

[Corie]

The F118 did 23,500 BTU during EPA certification testing. The 55,000 BTU may be a bit of a stretch, but it is definitely capable of at least 35-40,000 BTU/hr. If you are only considering the 2B and F118, I'd take the Jotul every day of the week, personally.

 

[pysh]

Wow! Thank you all for replying so promptly. Great feedback!

Admittedly, I'm a bit of a sucker for the looks of the two stoves. However, I would like to keep warm during the winter months as well.

About the smallish firebox ... the two stoves can accommodate logs 18 and 24", I think, with the Jotul with the longer of the two. So, that said ... Are longer fireboxes better? Or are broader boxes better? Less wood, but continuos, versus more wood with space in between - which is the more efficient scenario?

Also, what else might you recommend to heat a 1,200' house that cranks out a respectable amount of heat, doesn't take up much too much room and is easy to look at?

Thanks for your insight.

Chad

 

[wg_bent]

If you like the Jotul's the F3CB would be my choice. In the Morso, the 2110. or the 7110 would be good choices.

Branching out a bit.. Look at the Vermont Castings Encore.

These are all Cast iron stoves and real beauties. Look at Hearthstone also for some very nice looking stoves.

Obviously looks are important to you.

 

[begreen]

I would also consider a Vermont Castings Intrepid if you are not shy of a catalytic convertor stove. And also look at the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. Both will put out usable heat longer than the 118 or the F3CB.

Although the 118 takes longer wood, it can't take a lot of it before the wood starts bumping against the secondary manifold at the back of the stove. So it's usable capacity is limited. That said, it will throw off a lot of heat when it's going.

 

[Gooserider]

Wow! Thank you all for replying so promptly. Great feedback!

Admittedly, I'm a bit of a sucker for the looks of the two stoves. However, I would like to keep warm during the winter months as well.

About the smallish firebox ... the two stoves can accommodate logs 18 and 24", I think, with the Jotul with the longer of the two. So, that said ... Are longer fireboxes better? Or are broader boxes better? Less wood, but continuos, versus more wood with space in between - which is the more efficient scenario?

Also, what else might you recommend to heat a 1,200' house that cranks out a respectable amount of heat, doesn't take up much too much room and is easy to look at?

Thanks for your insight.

Chad

It's not so much log length that matters as the total firebox volume. Wood has a certain amount of heat per volume, depending on the variety, and in the end, the more volume in the fire box, the more total heat you can get out of it. All the other numbers such as BTU outputs, "size heated" recomendations, etc. don't have a lot of use as they are the result of marketing manipulating the numbers to get the results they think will look best in the literature.

For any given size of firebox with a single load of a given type of wood, you can either burn the wood fast, and get a high heat output for a short time between loads, or do a slow burn and get lower output over a long period of time. IOW, BTU's/hr times Burn time will always roughly equal BTU/volume times firebox size.

In the car world, they used to say "There's no replacement for displacement" - it's still true in the stove world. If you want both respectable amounts of heat, and long burn times, you need a big enough fire box. General concensus around here is that if you want an overnight burn, you need a firebox in the 2-3 cubic foot range, minimum. I'm not an expert on the stoves you mentioned, but I beleive they are in the less than one to 1.5 cubic foot range.

W/ 1200 feet, on two levels, in a climate as cold as AK, I'd go for a solid midsize stove such as the VC Encore, or one of the many others in that general size range.

Gooserider

 

[pysh]

Following your advice of steering clear of the more diminuitive stoves for the larger, and more practical, and having just chatted with a local woodburning guru (who recently canned his VC for a Jotul Castine and also heats app. 1,200), I am now seriously considering buying the Castine, or the Morso 2110. Both, I understand, are solid heat producers with ample fireboxes, are highly efficient and durable, are easy to operate/maintain, and are clearly a joy to look at. Sounds like a winner to me!

Thanks, all!

Chad

 

[Gooserider]

I saw a Castine running the other day at a local stove shop, definitely a pretty stove, looks like a good unit and probably much closer to the size you need. Seems to be the Jotul most people reccomend around here as a stove that offers a good amount of heat combined with reasonably long burn times.

Gooserider

 

[webbie]

I have not used a black bear, but have seen a lot of 118's and that type of stove did easily provide overnight output - it uses the cigar (front to back) method of burning, as opposed to the whole load being on fire at once - this can result in longer burns given the same size firebox. Jotul 118's are being used by the tens of thousands in Norway - where it is cold, cold, cold.

Although Elk claims long burns with an Intrepid, this is not my experience or that of my customers (not the claim of the manufacturer) - The intrepid and the 602 were the two smallest stoves that our shop sold....maybe followed by the Jotul 3CB....

When we are comparing these, we should compare them in the same installation with the same chimney,etc. I saw a lot of people get overnight burns on 602's, but that would not lead me to tell you to buy one for that use. I don't doubt that the 3CB or Intrepid can do the same....but in my opinion, it is difficult. Stepping up the Castine, Black Bear, Resolute (in VC line), mid-dutch, and many other models will assure a longer burn. BTW, what is the cubic foot of the black bear firebox?

One review on the black bear - there may be more - rates it a 2 (1 is best, 5 is worse), but does give all the good and bad points in the comments - this review seems fairly truthful:
https://www.hearth.com/ratesingles/rate1744.html

About 10 intrepid reviews there too, everything from love'em to hate'em, but one person states a 6 hour burn is the top. I agree with that (in general).

We can't forget you said "secondary heater" so a lot of this stuff may be unimportant to you.

 

[kevinlp]

I have a Morso 7110 and it is used to heat the upper floor (1350 sqft) of our raised ranch. It is the perfect size. Very happy with the stove. Been able to achieve a 10 hour coal time.

 

[Angus]

I read with interest all the articles and differant views.
I am a Jotul fan, but if they didnt exist Morso and then Austroflamm would be my next choice (I dont think Austroflamm is available in the US). I have used stoves all my life and I ve come to certain conclusions when buying a stove, the most important factors are;
1 will the stove burn 24/7
2 Is it relatively simple and from a renowned manufacturer
3 Is it cast iron
4 What size will I need

I currently use a Jotul 602 and 118 and I can gaurantee that they both will burn 24/7.
They also seem t burn the wood to nothing, I usually empty the ash about once every 10 days, some stoves need that daily.
I have had other Jotuls and a Morso that wont burn 24/7 and so it makes life a chore (I think thats the American word for hard work?) having to re-light the fire everyday.
The glass also stays spotless with the 602 and 118.
There are 2 versions of the 2b, they are the 2b and the 2 b classic. I m not sure which one your looking at but like the Jotul they have plenty of character.

As for burn box size the 118 box size is huge, it has a long long burn time, and takes logs up to 60 cm in length. Yes the logs have to be split slightly narrower than the large glass door stoves, but logs should be split narrow to allow them to dry properly and burn cleaner without tar going up the chimney, so dont worry about that, thats why Jotul designed the door of this width.
Jotul have built so many of the 118 and 602s that they will never let you down for a spare part in the future.

If it were me I would go for Jotul, but Morso is a good stove aswell. As for heat output, you can compare the 118 to the 2b classic and the 602 to the 2b.