The neighbor's smoke dragon

[Elfin]

After being enveloped in a cloud of smoke all last winter, this winter I'm going to take measures to try to get my neighbor to learn how to burn properly. The smoke is just terrible this morning...

It's definitely an older stove, and they are either burning green wood or dampering much too heavily. Is there any way to tell which it is, based upon the type of smoke produced? It's pretty pale, nearly white, and very thick... constant smoke.

I've already talked to the fire district months ago and they are willing to go have a talk with these folks about their burning practices. I was just waiting for the first ugly smoky burns to begin...

 

[begreen]

That's too bad. Sounds like it may be a combo of both. We have a neighbor or two I gently try to educate. It's a slow process if there are egos involved and you are trying to keep things neighborly, but I'm making progress. You might check local regs. In WA state, that is in violation of WA admin. code. (broken link removed to http://www.pscleanair.org/actions/woodstoves/law.aspx)

 

[Elfin]

Thanks, BeGreen... that's why I don't plan to approach them myself, and leave this up to the fire district. Unfortunately, local regs don't help. The Department of Environmental quality will only send out a letter, and takes no further responsibility.

My guess is that Oregon will probably get stricter on burning soon... I keep hearing that it's going to happen. The link you provided here is really helpful, Washington State is on the ball!

 

[InTheRockies]

I think it's only a matter of 3-5 years before you see a nationwide requirement to burn only in EPA compliant wood stoves. The EPA's new rules under the Clean Air Act, which dictate lower permissible particulate matter in the air, have gone in to effect. Most states were not in compliance with the old standards. None may be able to comply with the new standards, even those with vast rural areas. You can only go so far through regulating vehicle emissions. That's why I think it's likely that one of the steps that will be taken is to outlaw all the use of old smoke dragons. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the EPA issue new standards for wood stove manufacturers, stricter than Phase II and requiring yet greater efficiency.

 

[Elfin]

Yes, I think this is true, and in my state it is already not legal to install non-EPA stoves. However, existing stoves can remain and are legal for use.

We burned on a non-EPA stove for years and if you know how to burn correctly, the smoke can be easily kept to a very manageable level. Unfortunately, these neighbors don't seem to have a clue about that! In addition to the nuisance smoke 24 x7, they are setting themselves up for a chimney fire.

 

[North of 60]

I have the same problem Elfin and the old smoke dragon is two houses over. Thats a pretty good distance as we all live on acreages. How can you educate a person that actually cuts and mixes green wood on purpose to get a longer burn. :sick:
I feel your pain!

 

[Elfin]

I live on acreage too... doesn't seem to help keep the smoke away, does it!

I hope the visit from the Fire District will make a difference, but I don't have high hopes. We've been working to seal up the house today (closing the foundation vents seems to help a lot with keeping smoke out of the house.

 

[Dustin]

your not talking about my house, are ya

j/k

My neighboor does crank out some pretty heavy smoke. Dosen't bother me. My neighboor and I share firewood if we get low, so I'll put up with his smoke dragon

 

[Elfin]

Yep, I got ya targeted

Mostly I can put up with this sort of thing, but holy cow these people burn badly... and, I'm asthmatic so have a little more at stake.

 

[Dustin]

your not the guy across the street from me with the dog that barks all day, and all night at every car that drives past on this busy road are ya?? ;-) Kidding.


But seriously, this DOG! Woof. Woof. Woof. All day. I need my sleep after graveyard.


My lab never makes a sound

 

[Elfin]

Hell, no! I'd never force my neighbor to listen to my dog's noise... yet, of course I've got a neighbor just like yours. Thick smoke on one side, yapping dogs on the other... special fun in the neighborhood, huh?

 

[woodconvert]

Be careful. I personally don't mind the smoke and rather like it (and my downwind neighbors have said the like doing yard work when I have mine going). You don't want to bring too much attention to it as some local politico will make it a campaign issue bringing tighter regs. Also, if your neighbor needs to burn for money reasons I don't think you want to get him in trouble.

 

[Elfin]

woodconvert, this thread is not about "normal" burning. Intense, thick smoke of the variety I'm talking about is not normal, and not healthy. And it definitely does not smell good. A little education for the neighbor is all that I am addressing here. In addition to preventing the huge clouds of smoke they create, perhaps it can help save them from the trauma of a chimney fire, because at this rate they are certainly going to have one.

I defend everyone's right to burn, and I myself have burned three different units over the past 15 years, including non-EPA, at times as our sole source of heat.

 

[chad3]

Guy next to me has smoke pouring out of the chimney. It doesn't come my way so its not a big deal, but you should see how dark his screen is and I haven't seen him clean the chimney in the 4 years I have been here.
That is the scary part, might have to talk to him this weekend.
Chad

 

[woodconvert]

Ats cool...just keep it on the down low as much as possible is allz i'm sayin'.

 

[Chettt]

Your neighbors who don't burn at all will hate the smell of any burning, EPA approved or not. They all smell worse than an electric heater or whatever they are using.

If there is a ban on all nonEPA stoves, will people still be able to use a regular fireplace?

 

[RedRanger]

Don`t know if the OP lives in a subdivision or what? But today I just burned a whole bunch of branches and needles, and crap. Reason is because I am gonna plant there next spring. Every garden, whether it be edibles, or for flower and colour, has just taken off and done extremely well after a good burn. Just natures way of replineshing the soil, me thinks, but of course I live in the country where we still have some freedoms.

Lord help us if we ever get to the point where everything has to be trucked away to only god knows where to keep us from the evils of a natural life. If that ever happens, there will be even fewer and fewer of us that have immune systems that are are worth a damn!! We will all then be trying to suck wind!! And no natural inborn immune system to aid us in doing so. Just pitiful, absoutley-Pitiful!!

 

[InTheRockies]

Sunnyinbc,

I live in a rural area and outdoor burns have been restricted here now. In the US, the EPA is beginning to regulate everything that emits particulate matter. Regs on gas-powered appliances have been issued and will result in higher prices for everything from lawn mowers to chainsaws (eventually).

 

[Elfin]

Thanks for your vote of confidence, Sonnyinbc. I am the OP and I live in a rural area, on acreage, where open burning is permitted from October through June. And yes, I have a massive burn pile of my own. Everyone burns here, indoors, outdoors, burning is a way of life.

Nothing, I mean nothing, smokes and pollutes like the neighbor's belching woodstove.

There is a clear difference.

 

[BrotherBart]

woodconvert needs to put the cat back in that Firelight. :coolsmirk:

 

[RedRanger]

Thanks for your vote of confidence, Sonnyinbc. I am the OP and I live in a rural area, on acreage, where open burning is permitted from October through June. And yes, I have a massive burn pile of my own. Everyone burns here, indoors, outdoors, burning is a way of life.

Nothing, I mean nothing, smokes and pollutes like the neighbor's belching woodstove.

There is a clear difference.

I hear ya. Just so you know, that my main passion is gardening, and surprise, surprise, there are even some seeds that live beneath the soil for up to 500 years and can only probagate after a fire has gone thru. Only saying that it is a natural way of nature. So, if I understand you correctly, he just smolders and smolders his fires, and is asking for a visit from the fire dept?

Ya, we are not like that, but I do burn rather than take away to -- well where does it go?? Best served on my little acreage where I know that life will be renewed again. And by the way, I am so far, loving my new epa insert, no smoke, once she gets going, just a wonder to behold. Next spring, if Craig allows it I will post some pics of my burned out areas, now just stunning with all the colour and vigour that before would have not even comtemplated. Of course, I will do it politically correct and post in the pic. forum. ;-)

 

[Elfin]

Thanks, sonnyinbc, I hear ya also And yes, neighbor is set to a constant smolder. This will be our second winter with these folks, the previous homeowners in that house burned just as frequently but normally and there was no excessive smokeout.

Gardening is my main passion too. I compost and burn... nothing hauled out.

 

[RedRanger]

Thanks, sonnyinbc, I hear ya also And yes, neighbor is set to a constant smolder. This will be our second winter with these folks, the previous homeowners in that house burned just as frequently but normally and there was no excessive smokeout.

Gardening is my main passion too. I compost and burn... nothing hauled out.

Sweet, and guess, what?? On our road we kinda make a joke about when we are gonna do our outdoor burn> Oh,you don`t want smoke today, guess what? I waited and waited until I knew the wind was blowing your way. :lol:

Actually, it was my 77 year old neighbour that gave me the "heads up" on using the blower to really get the flames going and get the outside burn done with.

Hey, all of the above is just what we all do,having said that, I am one of the first to go outisde after firing up my new epa insert and always looking for smoke. If no smoke after 10 minutes I am a happy camper. And if my neighbour is out there I will always ask if he can tell I am heating? And of course he can`t tell.

 

[BJ64]

Nothing, I mean nothing, smokes and pollutes like the neighbor's belching woodstove.

There is a clear difference.

I know what you mean. I have a neibhor that is a good guy at heart, and I am glad he lives here, but he has a barrel stove in his shop that can smoke like a industural Cheech and Chongl device. He hatches chickens in his shop during the winter so they will sell for a good price in the spring at a local poultry auction. Hewill get up at 04:00 and load that barrel stove to the max with wood he cut the week before and shut off the air as he leaves for work. I wish I could find the pic I have of the three mile long smoke trail he created one day. It was amazing. He installed the stove pipe upside down so the creasote wiold run out and not plug up the pipe as often.

He is not offending anybody because of the distance between homes. That makes it is hard to argue for improvement and I hate telling people how and what to do at their own house

On the other hand I think Rockies is on to something regarding higher efficency and cleaner stoves. If you remember, Craig - our gracious webmaster and forum host - posted about a tax credit for stove purchases. The catch was that the wood stove had to be at least 75% efficient. I am not aware of any widely available stoves that are that efficient. Mine is advertised at 70.2. This makes me wonder if the lawmakers were aware of a new higher efficiency requirement for the future. I also makes me wonder if our fellow forum member Corie - who works in new product development at England Stove Works - is working on such a unit.

Tax credit for 2009 - includes wood stoves - but ONLY above 75% efficiency.

RIGHT NOW in the R&D;Lab

 

[stanleyjohn]

I live in the country and around here many burn wood!properly I'm guessing because not much smoke.Outdoor brush burning is still allowed if you get a permit from the town which gives you a day,another way for the town to make $$.I like the smell of wood burning but too much isn't good.Last year my next door neighbor used his day permit to burn some brush and the wind that day made a bulls-eye at my property!My wife who loves to hang clothes outside had to redo the whole load due to smoke damage.