Think I got some bad info....

[TDog78]

With the sizing of my house and the insulation values I am going to be pushing it a bit on the stove that I think we are going to go with which is a Woodstock Paladian or the Keystone which obviously has a catalytic converter. Long story short in my research yesterday I made a call to the "stove expert" at one of the most if not the most respected place in my area of CO. Well he called back today and was asking me questions but told me to absolutely stay away from a Cat stove (which he sells many of) since I am going to be running lower loads and choking things down a bit....In essence that the Cat may cycle at 500 or so degrees but the particulate matter put off at the lower temp burns wreaks havoc on them among other things and I should be getting a non cat stove. I also read this on one place online yesterday.

However after talking to nice folks over at Woodstock stoves and doing a little reading on here I was under the impression that the exact opposite is true; in that secondary burn type stoves typically function better and more efficient at moderate to high fire levels and higher temps inside and that the cat stoves will efficiently run and function just as well at lower temps. I will be running more often then not at the lower end of things and don't want to tinker around or jack things up.

 

[NinjaTech]

Cat stoves do great for low slow burns. Tube stoves run pretty much full out from when the secondaries light off till they are done without much adjustment. So lots of heat, real fast but they can't go super long. Cat stoves on the other hand can be set much lower and still get a clean burn, but they don't tend to put out quite the same amount of heat when turned way up. Its just lower over time instead of all at once like a tube stove.

 

[begreen]

Woodstock is correct. They know their stoves and stand behind them with good support and a 6 month return guarantee. There are several folks here that run low and slow, especially in milder weather and/or in milder climates. This is where a cat does well. In the same mild weather a non-cat is run in more of a pulse and glide mode. That is a short hot fire, and let it go out.

One thing to note, if you are at a high altitude, be sure to have additional chimney height to compensate. A too short chimney in thin air will lead to a poorly performing stove.

 

[TDog78]

You know it kind of pisses me off when someone in the industry for some time can give out bad info like that. I am sure that is not the only crap he is spewing out as fact. I understand that there will be variations in performance due to design differences and such but not an entire change in principal/functionality. He was quite bold and confident in his statements spewing facts left and right. Based on my posts yesterday and the little reading I was able to to plus talking to Woodstock I was pretty confident the article and the guy were full of it however I had to ask. Thanks again to all.

 

[fox9988]

Cat stoves excel at long slow efficient burns, that's their advantage.

 

[jatoxico]

You know it kind of pisses me off when someone in the industry for some time can give out bad info like that. I am sure that is not the only crap he is spewing out as fact. I understand that there will be variations in performance due to design differences and such but not an entire change in principal/functionality. He was quite bold and confident in his statements spewing facts left and right. Based on my posts yesterday and the little reading I was able to to plus talking to Woodstock I was pretty confident the article and the guy were full of it however I had to ask. Thanks again to all.

I have very little regard for the knowledge of the retailers in my area. If you spent an afternoon here you would know more about wood stoves than most of the people that I spoke to. If you spent 2 afternoons you would know more than all of them.

None and I mean none ever heard of a block off plate and when told what it was universally said it would cause problems. None of them would agree to install one. None, would use an insulated liner. None, used Roxul. None, mentioned the quality of the wood. I could go on.

With apologies to the truly professional retailers out there, stove retailers in my area are of the same ilk as those selling futons and hot tubs, usually from the same location.

 

[mellow]

If he is selling VC I can understand his not wanting to sell a cat stove, probably has been burned by them in the past. There are many other cat stove manufacturers out there doing it right.

 

[Charles1981]

What square footage are you heating? Are you burning just to occasionally supplement or are you burning because you want to burn as often as possible? Both are fairly smaller stoves but if they are truly fit for your size then they are perfect. But one of the more common problems on the board are with first time stove buyers wishing they had gone a bit bigger in regards to stove size.

 

[ailanthus]

Good for you for recognizing the bad info - the average consumer surely would not.

 

[begreen]

But one of the more common problems on the board are with first time stove buyers wishing they had gone a bit bigger in regards to stove size.

He has the opposite problem. Heating a 600 sq ft heavily insulated cottage.

 

[SteveKG]

I'm not selling stoves nor am I a "professional," but I do have real-world experience with a cat stove as of last fall when I began using my new Woodstock Keystone. Different stove, but still a cat. Before this stove, I have forty yr. or so of using non-cat stoves. So, thus far, this first winter, the cat stove is performing very, very well on all types of use: big, hot fires, small minimal fires. With my years of using non-cat stoves, I can at least draw some early conclusions, thus this post.

You do need to get the firebox temp. up to the recommended 500 F., but after that, if the temp. drops below 500 F., the stove continues to work perfectly and the cat continues to also. This is only a report of the first five months, but we've had some very cold weather here as well as some quite moderate days when we only needed and wanted a very modest fire.

As an aside, and, again, early days, but all indications are that my wood use, even during the coldest spells, is much lower than my previous stoves heating the same house. I don't have a hard number, but I am confident saying that my wood savings so far are at least 30%. Plus, though this stove is significantly smaller in firebox size than the previous stove, I reload less often in this new stove. Which means I can get on with other things and spend my time on that.

So, the dealer was "all wet." At least, in my Colorado home, which is heated 100% with wood burning.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

You know it kind of pisses me off when someone in the industry for some time can give out bad info like that. I am sure that is not the only crap he is spewing out as fact. I understand that there will be variations in performance due to design differences and such but not an entire change in principal/functionality. He was quite bold and confident in his statements spewing facts left and right. Based on my posts yesterday and the little reading I was able to to plus talking to Woodstock I was pretty confident the article and the guy were full of it however I had to ask. Thanks again to all.

when you arent sure, go to the "horses mouth" the manufacturer is uniquely suited to answer questions of this type. Kudo's to Woodstock for providing you good information.

one thing ive found is that some dealers who carry both cat and non cat stoves tend to be happier selling the non cats (doesnt mean they all do by any means) in your "neck of the woods" especially due to the more complex operatipon in some cases and as BG mentioned above , not understanding that at altitude a little more stack height makes for a better draft in thinner air whcich would affect a cat stove a bit more than the more "easy breathing" non cat units

 

[jatoxico]

when you arent sure, go to the "horses mouth" the manufacturer is uniquely suited to answer questions of this type. Kudo's to Woodstock for providing you good information.

I don't want to co-opt this thread or start ranting but how many manufacturers make it easy for customers to communicate directly to them? Woodstock seems to be getting high mark's, Englander too. Many others seem to hide behind dealers who often know very little about the product.

The fact that it's tough to deal directly w/ the manufacturers is probably a big component why this forum is so needed and therefore so valuable.

 

[Fsappo]

I still have competitors saying cat stoves are a thing of the past. One is a Regency dealer. Guess what he stopped saying when Regency made a cat stove....lol. The BK Chinook I burned for a few years in my showroom was an absolute pleasure. Low steady heat, quiet fans and once a day loading. Come on man!

 

[MN nice n warm]

I have very little regard for the knowledge of the retailers in my area. If you spent an afternoon here you would know more about wood stoves than most of the people that I spoke to. If you spent 2 afternoons you would know more than all of them.

None and I mean none ever heard of a block off plate and when told what it was universally said it would cause problems. None of them would agree to install one. None, would use an insulated liner. None, used Roxul. None, mentioned the quality of the wood. I could go on.

With apologies to the truly professional retailers out there, stove retailers in my area are of the same ilk as those selling futons and hot tubs, usually from the same location.

I was at a local retailer just the other day and the salesman looked at me like I was stupid when I asked if they sold moisture meters. He said never heard of them and couldn't even tell me where I could find something like that. At least now I know who NOT to buy a wood stove from.

 

[Fsappo]

was at a local retailer just the other day and the salesman looked at me like I was stupid when I asked if they sold moisture meters. He said never heard of them and couldn't even tell me where I could find something like that. At least now I know who NOT to buy a wood stove from.

A hearth shop retailer, or a hardware store that dabbles in stoves retailer?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I still have competitors saying cat stoves are a thing of the past. One is a Regency dealer. Guess what he stopped saying when Regency made a cat stove....lol. The BK Chinook I burned for a few years in my showroom was an absolute pleasure. Low steady heat, quiet fans and once a day loading. Come on man!

i agree, Blaze King are doing some astoundingly good things with cat stoves. so no, cat stoves arent "a thing of the past" i kinda wish we would go back to a cat stove line myself.

 

[Fsappo]

Not a whole line, but maybe just one model? May move you out of your big box store price point. How about develop a whole new line for specialty retailers? Kind of like SBI with the 4 different lines, all just slightly different for different outlets to sell?

 

[mellow]

i kinda wish we would go back to a cat stove line myself.

The 24ACD was/is a solid performer with rear or top vent options, sad to see they gave that up but I understand the reason with box stores.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Not a whole line, but maybe just one model? May move you out of your big box store price point. How about develop a whole new line for specialty retailers? Kind of like SBI with the 4 different lines, all just slightly different for different outlets to sell?

yeah, not dropping non cats, but i'd like to do a cat line as well (not my call) but i am a huge cat stove fan having run one in my home for years. i know what they are capable of although the noncats are pretty awesome as well. wish we offered both

 

[begreen]

It wouldn't surprise me if we saw several new cat stove entries with new EPA regs.

 

[MN nice n warm]

A hearth shop retailer, or a hardware store that dabbles in stoves retailer?

Fireside Hearth and Home. Thought they may have them as I bought a thermostat from there. I get the impression they specialize in Gas heating more so than wood. I found my moisture meter at good old Mills Fleet Farm.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

I'm not selling stoves nor am I a "professional," but I do have real-world experience with a cat stove as of last fall when I began using my new Woodstock Keystone. Different stove, but still a cat. Before this stove, I have forty yr. or so of using non-cat stoves. So, thus far, this first winter, the cat stove is performing very, very well on all types of use: big, hot fires, small minimal fires. With my years of using non-cat stoves, I can at least draw some early conclusions, thus this post.

So, the dealer was "all wet." At least, in my Colorado home, which is heated 100% with wood burning.

Nice report SteveKG what kind of wood do you burn and what's your altitude?