Read threw this post What do you think a quality job?????????
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/7470/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/7470/
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The good news is that there isn't anything to throw out in fixing it. The keeping the fireplace legal for open fireplace burning in case of a sale of the house is very valid. A full length SS liner kit and the bigger surround will get him in business.
Read through the whole thread - the situation may not be as bad as Elk seems to think.
Perhaps we should not jump the gun and tell folks that they have been screwed by others unless we have ALL the information (which we never do from afar). After all, I would not like it if someone judged my work without seeing it - or by using a paragraph or two posted by the customer. It seems as if many times we shoot first and ask questions later.
We can always reserve judgment until after the thread has run for awhile and more info is in. By jumping the gun, I'm afraid we are crying WOLF so much that eventually everyone will become either paranoid or stop listening. As someone else said before, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down!
We want to work with installers, inspectors, insurance companies, dealers, etc - not alienate them.
Perhaps we should not jump the gun and tell folks that they have been screwed by others unless we have ALL the information (which we never do from afar). After all, I would not like it if someone judged my work without seeing it - or by using a paragraph or two posted by the customer. It seems as if many times we shoot first and ask questions later.
We can always reserve judgment until after the thread has run for awhile and more info is in. By jumping the gun, I'm afraid we are crying WOLF so much that eventually everyone will become either paranoid or stop listening. As someone else said before, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down!
We want to work with installers, inspectors, insurance companies, dealers, etc - not alienate them.
I see your point Craig but another side is to educate other members so that they do not find themselves in this situation. Part of it is me .
I find it hard to tollerate this type of workmanship. I know I would have never left a stove with out a vent pipe. Tomorrow my dime, I am going to rectify the Donor installation.
In this case I never exposed the owner to a safety issue or life threatening situation. What we did was to remove a life threatening situation.
I have offered to provide all aplicapable codes to the owner for negiotiating with his installer. If he wants ,I will e-mail or call his local inspector to help get this solved.
I have a very low threshold for this type of work both as a contractor and as an inspector.
I find it hard to tollerate this type of workmanship. I know I would have never left a stove with out a vent pipe. Tomorrow my dime, I am going to rectify the Donor installation.
In this case I never exposed the owner to a safety issue or life threatening situation. What we did was to remove a life threatening situation.
I have offered to provide all aplicapable codes to the owner for negiotiating with his installer. If he wants ,I will e-mail or call his local inspector to help get this solved.
I have a very low threshold for this type of work both as a contractor and as an inspector.
When I jump to conclusions, I usually end up being wrong - at least in some ways. My point is it is best to ask the questions and complete the discovery before we hang the installers or dealers. From a distance we can only know so much....
For instance, you didn't start your post about the failed inspection with the title "Experienced building official screws his neighbor by installing stove in dangerous situation"....and you probably would not have liked it if someone said this about you. So my point is to always give the benefit of the doubt, since in most cases the other parties probably deserve it. The same education will result without the relatively harsh initial assessment. I think in your line of business, you actually have to have tolerance for less than the best, since most jobs of all types fit this description. I remember discussing this before and saying that you might be better as the manager of a high-end remodeling company, because then the high standards always apply. But in the case of inspections - or for that matter here - it is the LOWEST (minimum) standards which apply.
For instance, you didn't start your post about the failed inspection with the title "Experienced building official screws his neighbor by installing stove in dangerous situation"....and you probably would not have liked it if someone said this about you. So my point is to always give the benefit of the doubt, since in most cases the other parties probably deserve it. The same education will result without the relatively harsh initial assessment. I think in your line of business, you actually have to have tolerance for less than the best, since most jobs of all types fit this description. I remember discussing this before and saying that you might be better as the manager of a high-end remodeling company, because then the high standards always apply. But in the case of inspections - or for that matter here - it is the LOWEST (minimum) standards which apply.
If this guy were anywhere near to me, I would organize and take care of his situation. I did that for Turner the burner and Hotflame. Wether is part of the donor program or not,
I and other members have physically helped other members threw some differcult situations.
That is if he would be receptive in letting some like me in this home
I and other members have physically helped other members threw some differcult situations.
That is if he would be receptive in letting some like me in this home
elkimmeg said:
Elk.
here's what I suggested (at a minimum) that he do in the other post
1) get a short section of liner (enough to get about a foot or so into the 10” flue they poured) and connect it to the stove using a stove connector and push it up a foot or so into the 10” flue.
2) get a block-off plate installed that surrounds the liner and seals to the bottom of the flat liner they poured. If you don’t do this here’s what will happen: as the chimney draws air and flue gas up into the poured liner it will “entrain” (pull) massive amounts of room air around the surround up with it and this means your house loses heat. Sealing the surround WON’T work because while it stops room air from being entrained and drawn up and out the chimney, you have then forced your stove to draw combustion air from the only other pathway available which is from the spent flue gases which are trying to exhaust up the chimney....this means your stove won’t work properly (unless your stove has an outside air kit). Also, not only does this counteract/kill the chimneys draft but there’s also insufficient oxygen for combustion in spent flue gases and your stove becomes a cresote factory and works poorly if at all....
3) do NOT block off the surround with insulation. The stove draws it’s combustion air from your room (unless you have already vented it to the outside with an outside air kit) in which case you could seal the surround
to recap: doing #1 and #2 gives the stove it’s own sealed and dedicated exhaust pathway that will prevent combustion gas from being sucked back into the stoves air intake. Leaving the surround open to the living room (meaning DON’T seal it) allows the stove to have it’s own dedicated pathway to draw clean air into the combustion chamber (unless of course your stove has an outside air kit in which case you could seal the surround).
I don't know how this insert works, but the QUAD units I have seen draw room air from the front of the unit, not the back.
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