Tiny Wood Stove In a Tiny House - Confirming Issues
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Timberwolf530
Member
Wow, nothing about this install looks safe. I'm not slamming you because obviously you wouldn't just inherently know how to do this correctly, but it looks like you've been given some bad information, and this install actually looks pretty dangerous. Let's start from the inside out. #1. Is your steel heat shield installed right up against your drywall, or is there and air gap? It looks like it is right up against it, which will conduct heat right through to the wall. #2. They told you to install the flue pipe upside down. The crimped side of the flue pipe should always go down inside the one below it. If you have a chimney fire (which is pretty likely eventually by the looks of it), its going to catch fire on the inside and the outside increasing the risk of catching the house on fire. They also told you to use the wrong kind of pipe. 3. You should have double wall pipe outside the house, this will help keep heat in the flue, protect the side of the house from heat, and reduce creosote. 4. If you have that much creosote running down the outside of your pipe, the inside has to be completely coated. I would not have another fire in that stove the way it looks. That's a chimney fire just waiting to happen. 5. Finally, how high does your pipe go outside? If it is within 10 feet of the roof peak, it needs to be 2 feet higher than the peak (or those solar panels if you have the those like the model shown does). If it is more than 10 ft away from the peak, it needs to be 2 ft higher than the edge of the roof. This is will assure a proper draft. Also, the straighter the pipe, the better the draft. It would be better if you can install it straight up through the roof. Good luck, and I seriously would not have another fire in that until it is fixed.
EDIT: I looked on their website, and I guess what you have may be double wall, but it doesn't look like it probably does much if any better than a single wall pipe the way its made.
EDIT: I looked on their website, and I guess what you have may be double wall, but it doesn't look like it probably does much if any better than a single wall pipe the way its made.
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Woody5506
Minister of Fire
Stuff like this gives me anxiety and is why I paid top dollar for stove/install by a certified professional. I know we all have a budget but man I guess I'm just paranoid about live fire running in my house 24/7.
Wilbursan
Member
I had a professional installer and they told me they were installing double wall stove pipe and didn't and then didn't put all the screws in (thanks for the info on that Squisher!). They also did not meet code in the attic. There is supposed to be 2" of clearance between the chimney and anything flammable and the box they mounted it in has only 1.5" of clearance on one side. They also didn't put anything on it to keep the insulation off the pipe, which isn't required where I live, but damn, who wouldn't do that if they knew about it? I had to dig the insulation out of the box so I could sleep at night.
Woody5506
Minister of Fire
I have this stove on my sailboat. The way we run these on boats is basically with all the chimney inside the boat and a DP cap outside. I have never seen that problem on a boat and I am guessing the fact that we have pretty much no setup exposed to the elements outside is partly responsible for this. The other part of the answer is that when the winter comes, we're not on the boats and don't use the stove.
I would try to install the chimney inside your house and exit through the roof. Dickinson makes a fitting that will deal with the transition on your roof.
I would try to install the chimney inside your house and exit through the roof. Dickinson makes a fitting that will deal with the transition on your roof.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
They state it's uncertified , for recreational use only. There are installation requirements for uncertified appliances and this install is very far from meeting any of them I don't see how it ever could. 48" to start all the way around the sides for basic clearance to combustibles.
At best someone could call them and try to recommend they hire a WETT professional to assist them in their product line or take some WETT training themselves.
Do you have an actual chimney though or is it just some stove pipe like the origonal poster?
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Nice size for a tiny home. When transporting I assume you pull the panels & vent stack off?
its just 304 SS single wall pipe bought from dickinson marine. To my knowledge, except for very large units on ships, none of the marine stove uses a true chimney systems.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
This is a stove I was just reading about. The TN-10. 300-600 sq ft and certified.
http://truenorthstoves.com/en/products/gas/tn10-wood-stove
True north is made by PE.
http://truenorthstoves.com/en/products/gas/tn10-wood-stove
True north is made by PE.
you would have to look at the installation manual for each stove as clearances differ.
these guys do a good job of refering to NFPA and other standards: http://www.marinestove.com/2015sardinemanual.pdf. But they say they use it as a basis. Other manufacturers, like cubic, have VERY poor documentation.
CSA 365 (in canada) is designed for building applications. There is no way to apply it to a boat. Just like diesel hot air furnace on sailboats do not comply with CSA B139.
It is a different world. Now, if you buy a marine marketed stove and put it in your house, that is a whole different story and you should refer to applicable installation standards.
electrathon
Minister of Fire
I find this issue incredibly interesting. Why is it considered safe on a boat to use a different set of standards on a boat than on a land home? Does fire burn differently on boats? Are out of control fires less danger/concern on the water than on land? Is this reason that a different person decided the standards on land than the person that decided land code? If it is because a different person decided, common sense says one of the two are wrong or overstepping/under stepping what really should be done.
All valid quesitons for which I do not have the answers.
That being said, the notion of danger/concern in buildings vs elsewhere is very interesting. The building Code has 1 priority from which everything is derived: occupant safety. Depending on how the building is classified (usage, construction type, combustible load, number of occupants, private vs public access, etc), the law applicable is more or less restrictive. For example, applicable regulation will usually be more strict for buildings receiving members of the public who do not occupy the building on a regular basis vs permanent employees that are expected to 'know' the premises up to a certain degree (shopping mall vs offices). A building with a large capacity will generally have more restrictive safety rules vs lesser capacity structures (opera house vs small commercial). A lot of things factor in.
An access hatch on a boat does not qualify as an egress if you follow the building code's guidelines and requirements. But it has the same use (exit the premises in case of an emergency). Is the risk the same if you are a stuck inside the boat or building? Is it more dangerous to exit a boat with exits not conforming to the building code? Should the egress in a boat be subjected to land regulation? All good questions.
Wilbursan
Member
I thank my lucky stars every day that there is no single person deciding what is good and right for us everywhere we go and live, be it air, land or sea. I can't imagine what kind of dysopian nightmare that would be. Please, don't give anyone any ideas.
Maybe if you Googled "leading causes of boat fires" you'd see why nobody seems to be concerned about it. I can't find a reference to wood stoves once. The closest is alcohol stoves and according to the link below that's about 1%. 87% is caused exactly how you'd think they would be caused on a boat - electrical, engine and fuel.
http://www.threesheetsnw.com/blog/2014/05/why-boats-catch-fire/
Maybe if you Googled "leading causes of boat fires" you'd see why nobody seems to be concerned about it. I can't find a reference to wood stoves once. The closest is alcohol stoves and according to the link below that's about 1%. 87% is caused exactly how you'd think they would be caused on a boat - electrical, engine and fuel.
http://www.threesheetsnw.com/blog/2014/05/why-boats-catch-fire/
And chimneys are very far from the leading cause of house fires as well but that doesnt mean we should not pay attention to their safety.
And if you saw some of the stuff i see that people do with stoves you may think that more people need to be told what they can do.
Wilbursan
Member
Not true. Heating fires cause 16% of all home fires and chimneys/fireplaces make up 1/3 of that. Thats over 5% of all house fires compared to some small fraction of 1% on boats.
http://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resear...es/Appliances-and-equipment/Heating-equipment
http://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resear...es/Appliances-and-equipment/Heating-equipment
How is what i said not true? I said that house fires caused by chimneys were far from the leading cause. And it is behind cooking appliances space heaters electrical intentional and smoking materials. To me that is pretty far from the leading cause.
You also have to take into account the percentage of boats out there that are heated with wood stoves. I dont know the percentage but i would bet it is pretty low.
Wilbursan
Member
True enough, but you also seemed to be implying that it was as small a number as boat fires. Otherwise I don't see why you would have brought it up.
Wilbursan
Member
Which is exactly my point and why we don't need an army of regulators brought in to get these people under control.
I did not mean to imply that at all. I was just saying that a potential fire hazard is a potential firehazard no matter how rarely it causes a fire in other situations does not mean the hazard should be overlooked.
But without knowing the percentage of boats heated with wood the percentage of fires caused by it is meaningless. If 1% of fires on boats are caused by wood stoves but only 5% of boats are heated with wood that makes the risk pretty high if you are heating your boat with wood. And to be clear i am not saying those numbers are right at all just using them as hypotheticals.
What about if that stove is installed by a professional. Dont you think they should have some standard to go by. Or are you ok with them making it up as they go along?
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