Hi, we are having a problem, we are debating on giving back the stove tl300, and getting an old fashioned buck stove. we are not sure if it is working right or what. we get a full load of wood in and it burns out in bout 6 hrs. then we also get puffs of smoke out of it alot, we have in the basement thank gush or what a mess we would have. we always have about a 4 inch cool bed. so we don't know what else to do . we think the ab is working but not sure. also a concern is alot of people talk on here about having to replace the ab after 5 yrs, well installed we just paid 6,000 for it! we can't afford to replace parts! we have been burning stait for about a month in a half now, and its cold upstairs and ok down but not real hot, we have used alot of wood so far. so do you all think it will get better or should we get rid of it and go with the buck with no ab. we had one before in a different house and never a problem at all, just low burn time but we are not getting that now neither. we feel like we can't go any where because of the puffs of smoke in the house, we have a brand new house to. open to sugestions please help!
tl300 question
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MishMouse
Minister of Fire
A few questions:
1) How seasoned is your wood?
2) What temps are you getting?
a) Stove Top?
b) Flue Pipe?
i) Internal?
ii) External?
3) What temp do you engage the AB?
4) What are the outside temps?
5) Do you have a blower, and if so when do you run it?
6) Do you have a Outside Air Kit installed?
7) How clean is your chimney?
8) What type of wood are you burning?
9) Do you have a long enough chimney with proper roof clearance (per manual)?
For me I can easily get 8+ hour burns with stove top > 400 (1st air pos)
Last night I loaded it up and got the Ab working properly around 8:00PM, at 6:00AM Stove Top was around 325 with a 4-5 inch coal bed. I shifted the bed around and got rid of around 2 inches of ash. Loaded it back up, got it to 500 stove top, (600 external double wall), push the lever to put it into AB (didn't make a rushing sound nor did I get the dancing flames or the sudden burst of heat the AB normally puts out, looked like it might stall). Came back around 45 min later, stove top was down to 375, (stalled), opened the air got it back up to 500 stove top, put it in AB, heard the roar got the dancing flames and the burst of heat, currently cruising at 425.
Additional info: Search the Forum on Puffs backs, back puffs to find more on why and how they are happening.
1) How seasoned is your wood?
2) What temps are you getting?
a) Stove Top?
b) Flue Pipe?
i) Internal?
ii) External?
3) What temp do you engage the AB?
4) What are the outside temps?
5) Do you have a blower, and if so when do you run it?
6) Do you have a Outside Air Kit installed?
7) How clean is your chimney?
8) What type of wood are you burning?
9) Do you have a long enough chimney with proper roof clearance (per manual)?
For me I can easily get 8+ hour burns with stove top > 400 (1st air pos)
Last night I loaded it up and got the Ab working properly around 8:00PM, at 6:00AM Stove Top was around 325 with a 4-5 inch coal bed. I shifted the bed around and got rid of around 2 inches of ash. Loaded it back up, got it to 500 stove top, (600 external double wall), push the lever to put it into AB (didn't make a rushing sound nor did I get the dancing flames or the sudden burst of heat the AB normally puts out, looked like it might stall). Came back around 45 min later, stove top was down to 375, (stalled), opened the air got it back up to 500 stove top, put it in AB, heard the roar got the dancing flames and the burst of heat, currently cruising at 425.
Additional info: Search the Forum on Puffs backs, back puffs to find more on why and how they are happening.
Not real happy with my tl300 either. My house smells smokey and it takes a lot of TLC to get it burning right. puts out some seares heat when its working right thou. not real happy with the ash system
As MishMouse said, lots of variables to consider. The stove itself may need different conditions than it now has to run its best.
I haven't experienced backpuffs with the oakwood so haven't researched them, but I know basement installs can be problematic - my stove came from a guy who couldn't get a draft in his basement with it. I have a twenty foot insulated 6" ss liner and I get draft like you read about!
Explore the options before you give up on the stove. If you can get the stars lined up right you might find you got a winner.
I haven't experienced backpuffs with the oakwood so haven't researched them, but I know basement installs can be problematic - my stove came from a guy who couldn't get a draft in his basement with it. I have a twenty foot insulated 6" ss liner and I get draft like you read about!
Explore the options before you give up on the stove. If you can get the stars lined up right you might find you got a winner.
Hi , yes all the questions you asked are all good wood is seasoned, temps are up on stove plenty of venting as in basement, was professially installed so pipe is good. there is no reason for this stove to do what it does, we have plenty of air to the stove and temps right now in the 20's. thats why we asked the question does anyone else have the same problem?
It takes time to figure this stove out. I think eveyone situation is different with this stove, in reference of when to put into afterburn, stove temps etc. With that mentioned all the information given here has been extremely helpful to me.
I am still experimenting with my stove and to find it's sweet spot. This morning i had a nice coal bed got a fire roaring with my rutland thermoneter reading 450 and I put it into after burn and I got a tremendous roar. However, If I get the stove top to 600 - 550 range i seem to be getting the same results with temps cruising at 350-375 at the second notch.
I am still experimenting with my stove and to find it's sweet spot. This morning i had a nice coal bed got a fire roaring with my rutland thermoneter reading 450 and I put it into after burn and I got a tremendous roar. However, If I get the stove top to 600 - 550 range i seem to be getting the same results with temps cruising at 350-375 at the second notch.
MishMouse
Minister of Fire
The TL-300 is a downdraft stove and all downdraft stoves takes a while to get used to. It is not as easy as throw wood in light it, close damper and expect it to work properly. Study the manual on how to operate this stove.
The operating temps, outdoor temp, pipe length all effects how it will operate. For me before engaging the AB (damper) when I get the stove top around 500, (center, 2 in from flue pipe mounted on the top load door), I have another one located about 18" above stove on my double wall flue pipe I let that one get to around 600. For internal flue temps you should get it to around 1K.
If after 1 hour if the stove top drops below 400 I know it stalled and I repeat. After using the stove for a while you will know before hand when the AB is going to stall even without looking at the temp. Aka: No dancing flames or dancing stops < 1 min, no rushing sound etc...
As for short burn times the type of wood you are using will effect that; soft woods burn much faster then hardwoods.
Also when you start burning 24-7 you will find that it is easier to maintain a longer burn time and a easier AB kickoff due to the system already being warm.
Smoke in the house could be many reasons (in order of possibility):
1) Re-Loading through front door when AB (damper) is engaged
2) Poor Draft or Reverse Draft caused by other systems in house.
3) Leaky or loose connection in your flue system
4) Loose Gaskets on stove
5) Clogged pipes
6) Stove Defect (very slim chance of this as you would be having other issues)
Search this Forum with "Smoke in House" for other possible causes.
As for backpuffs there are many possible causes for this
1) Poor Draft
2) Reverse Draft caused by another appliance
3) Opening the ash door to get the fire going
Search this forum with back puffs, puff backs etc..
Most of the problems that you are getting you will most likely continue to get no matter what stove you have installed.
I have obtained 12+ hour burn times with this stove with stove top temps still above 350.
The operating temps, outdoor temp, pipe length all effects how it will operate. For me before engaging the AB (damper) when I get the stove top around 500, (center, 2 in from flue pipe mounted on the top load door), I have another one located about 18" above stove on my double wall flue pipe I let that one get to around 600. For internal flue temps you should get it to around 1K.
If after 1 hour if the stove top drops below 400 I know it stalled and I repeat. After using the stove for a while you will know before hand when the AB is going to stall even without looking at the temp. Aka: No dancing flames or dancing stops < 1 min, no rushing sound etc...
As for short burn times the type of wood you are using will effect that; soft woods burn much faster then hardwoods.
Also when you start burning 24-7 you will find that it is easier to maintain a longer burn time and a easier AB kickoff due to the system already being warm.
Smoke in the house could be many reasons (in order of possibility):
1) Re-Loading through front door when AB (damper) is engaged
2) Poor Draft or Reverse Draft caused by other systems in house.
3) Leaky or loose connection in your flue system
4) Loose Gaskets on stove
5) Clogged pipes
6) Stove Defect (very slim chance of this as you would be having other issues)
Search this Forum with "Smoke in House" for other possible causes.
As for backpuffs there are many possible causes for this
1) Poor Draft
2) Reverse Draft caused by another appliance
3) Opening the ash door to get the fire going
Search this forum with back puffs, puff backs etc..
Most of the problems that you are getting you will most likely continue to get no matter what stove you have installed.
I have obtained 12+ hour burn times with this stove with stove top temps still above 350.
As far as whether the ab is going, next time you are home on a cold day, go in and out of the house at different stages of your burn, with different settings of damper, air, etc. and look at your stack. If you see no smoke, you are burning it, and the ab is working. Experiment with different split sizes, maybe some dry lumber scrap etc. and try to observe the various stovetop temps, weather conditions and burn times and so forth. It seems you have to take a very methodical, scientific approach with these stoves or you are at their mercy. Once you figure out what it wants to do and get that to mesh with what you want it to do, you should find a routine that makes it as easy as the old stoves: set it and forget it!
To a low-tech guy like me it's like a telephone. I kinda like one you just pick up and talk into. But having all the features of my new cell phone will be nice, if I can just figure out how to use a few of 'em!
To a low-tech guy like me it's like a telephone. I kinda like one you just pick up and talk into. But having all the features of my new cell phone will be nice, if I can just figure out how to use a few of 'em!
stanleyjohn
Minister of Fire
Heres a pic i just took of my harman insert in action!You can clearly see the afterburner in action for a few hours now with a internal stove top temp of around 600 deg.this is about as hot as i get it.Mid 30s outside now with ave inside temp mid 70s.Like others have said a downdraft stove can be a little harder to use than the tube type but i like it! No tubes in the way of cleaning and i like the damper for easier less smokey starts.
Attachments
I just got my TL-300 installed earlier this week. I have read several posts about this stove and still have a few questions. I follow the lighting instructions in the manual. Once my coal bed is established, I add a couple more pieces of wood, leave the bypass damper open with the air fully open. After 10 minutes, I close up the by-pass damper and the flames will go from full flame to very little in a matter of minutes. I rarely have very many flames at all, just a lot of coals with wood pieces sitting on top of them burning very slowly. Is the afterburner supposed to "kick in" once you close the by-pass damper? I am very diappointed so far, and my dealer doesn't have alot of answers. Maybe I need to give it more time and more wood to really get the fire going. Any help is appreciated!
You don't always see alot of flame with the AB - the smoke is burning in the back of the stove. I suggest, if you haven't already:
1) Get a stove top thermometer and observe your temps (500 min to engage AB)
2) Go outside and observe your chimney (AB = NO SMOKE)
3) KEEP SEARCHING this forum - lots of threads and tips!
Good luck - you have a good stove.
1) Get a stove top thermometer and observe your temps (500 min to engage AB)
2) Go outside and observe your chimney (AB = NO SMOKE)
3) KEEP SEARCHING this forum - lots of threads and tips!
Good luck - you have a good stove.
stanleyjohn
Minister of Fire
Once you have a good bed of hot coals!close the damper and you see the afterburner in action if you have a viewing glass into the back chamber like mine.When you first shutdown the damper to activate the afterburner start out with the air flow control almost all the way out for max air flow.I find that in the early stages of burning with the afterburner in action i need a good amount of air flow to keep it going!Close the air flow down in steps till there is little flame burning from the wood and afterburner still working.Buring with hot coals and not much flame will maximize the burn time.When a good amount of the wood becomes coals the afterburner will shut down!but thats normal!! because the after burner function is to burn unused gasses and smoke for a clean burn and there is little left to pollute and burn at this stage.If the afterburn doesn't seem to work even with the airflow at max then the problem is limited downdraft,not so dry wood or holes going into the afterburner getting clogged up.I tend to clean and vacuum out my stove after a few burns!This helps to keep the afterburner chamber from getting too much ash.Just be carefull when cleaning near the chamber!The material inside the chamber is pretty fragile and can be damaged if poked.
Thanks for the responses. I think I need to give it more time. I did buy a thermometer for the top of the stove this morning. I do have creosote that has built up inside the stove on the glass and the interior of the stove itself. Is this normal? My intentions are to clean it out good today and then fire it back up tonight. I did try and get it hot last night ( I wish I had the thermometer then) it made me a little nervous when the stove and chimney started crackling a little bit. I did see the flames appear to be "sucked in" to the back chamber when I closed the by-pass. Does that mean the AB started working? It seemed like the flames went down considerably. I read someone's post that theirs is the same. I put several pieces in at 10:00 p.m., checked it at 2:00 a.m. (moved some wood pieces and coals around) and then at 6:00 this morning, I still had a decent coal bed. At that point, I am assuming you open the by-pass, air on full, get it hot again and start the process over. Does this sound right?
BJ64
Minister of Fire
I have a Lopi Leyden which is very similar to the TL 300.branchburner said:
Branchburner's above suggestions will almost always result in success assuming the wood is seasoned and the chimney is good.
I can also add that these types of stoves are amazing with their heat output with a small amount of wood usage.
I was apprehensive at first. I could not get the hang of the stove right away and had a few "less than desired results". I was trying to kick the afterburner in too soon. There have been a few comments about these stoves being a bit harder to operate than some of the other types. I tend to believe it takes more patience than skill, as demonstrated by my wife reading a few threads about these stoves and giving me a lesion on how it is done.
There will be a few mechanical issues as time goes on but that is the case with any semi complex device - even wood stoves.
Anyhow, the whole family is happy with the stove and I am confident that it will be just fine. It is a huge improvement over the simple fireplace.
BJ64 said:
This typo would be less funny if it weren't so close to the truth. "More patience than skill" applies equally well to wood stoves and spouses!
A few more questions after burning the TL-300 over the weekend. Now that I have a stove top thermometer, I get the stove up to around 525-550 degrees and then I close the damper to activate the AB. I don't hear a whoshing sound, but I do see the flames being sucked in to the AB. I can then hear a faint noise similar to a plane flying overhead. It is not very loud though, but I have a little bit of smoke coming from the chimney, not a lot. So I think the AB is working at that point.
Our outside temps are in the low 30's at night and in the upper 40's to around 50 during the day. The wood we are burning was chunked up last March/April and split early August. (Moisture content could be a little bit of an issue along with outside temps)
My questions today are:
1. How long should my burn times be after I kick in the AB? My stove top temp will drop down to around 300 after 4-5 hours.
2. How do I get these 10-12 hour burn times?
3. Do I need to get stove top temp closer to 600 to get AB hotter before closing the damper to get longer burns?
4. When you close the by-pass, do you just close it all at once in one push, or do you ease it shut slowly?
5. After initiating the AB, I turn my air down to about the 2nd notch after 3-4 minutes and then turn my blower on low. Am I setting the air too low?
6. Or is it working correctly, and do I need to just leave it alone for overnight and then start with a good coal bed in the morning and fire it back up again? It concerns me that my stove top temp drops down to 300 after just 4-5 hours.
Thanks!
Our outside temps are in the low 30's at night and in the upper 40's to around 50 during the day. The wood we are burning was chunked up last March/April and split early August. (Moisture content could be a little bit of an issue along with outside temps)
My questions today are:
1. How long should my burn times be after I kick in the AB? My stove top temp will drop down to around 300 after 4-5 hours.
2. How do I get these 10-12 hour burn times?
3. Do I need to get stove top temp closer to 600 to get AB hotter before closing the damper to get longer burns?
4. When you close the by-pass, do you just close it all at once in one push, or do you ease it shut slowly?
5. After initiating the AB, I turn my air down to about the 2nd notch after 3-4 minutes and then turn my blower on low. Am I setting the air too low?
6. Or is it working correctly, and do I need to just leave it alone for overnight and then start with a good coal bed in the morning and fire it back up again? It concerns me that my stove top temp drops down to 300 after just 4-5 hours.
Thanks!
ksburner said:
My burn times vary quite a bit, as do my temps, depending on wood, weather, etc. I have not really tried for any longer than 6 hr burns yet, but 10-12 hour burn times seem a bit tough to imagine without a big block of perfect oak - we'll see.
I usually get stove top temp around 600 or more before closing the damper, but that is due to smaller/dryer wood (sometimes I shut the bypass without a good coal bed just to cool the fire for a bit) - not sure if that would relate to longer burns.
I ease bypass shut slowly just so it won't slam.
I don't have a blower but have heard that running it too high/too soon can cool your fire and stall your AB. I find I can set the air very low most the tiome with good results, but I just used some slightly damp wood for the first time with this stove - what a difference! Needed a lot more air, a lot more time to get AB to kick in. The fact your wood was just split a few months ago could be slowing you down a bit. Try mixing in and messing around with some different types/sizes of wood if you can find some (small dry branch wood, pallets, etc.), keeping a close eye on your temps.
Thanks. Surprisingly, I got home last night and my wife had gathered up some softwoods (box elder/elm) that I told her wasn't worth putting the time into even cutting it up, and it burned better than the oak and walnut that I have been using. Doesn't make sense, but I had to eat some crow on that one. Looks like I need to clean the grove up a little more I guess to use for this early season of burning then use the oak and walnut in the middle of winter once it gets a little more curing. Thanks again for your response. I think we are starting to get the hang of this stove. It will produce the heat when you get it fired up.
Well, it's kind of funny that I'm suggesting to others that they burn these kinds of wood, because for 30 years I've never thought of burning a thing besides hardwood. I'm going to start a thread on this.
BJ64
Minister of Fire
I heard the "loud jet sound" last night for the first time. I had added a couple more pieces with the stove around 450 degrees and had the damper open to get it back to 525 or so when I noticed a slight pink color on the inside portion of the stove pipe. At that point, I became a little nervous and closed the bypass and it sounded like a jet was taking off. To be honest, it scared me to death. I thought I was catching the house on fire. Once I closed the air control down, the stove pipe went back to normal color and the stove plugged away. Should I not have done that with the temp up around 450 to fire it back up? Just curious?
I find the key factor to the AB is coal bed rather than stovetop temp - if the fire is just getting started and the temp is at 600, I can close the bypass and not get afterburn - if the fire has been going for many hours and the coals are really deep then 450-500 may work fine.
Those temps sound low to have a stovepipe glowing, don't they?
Those temps sound low to have a stovepipe glowing, don't they?
MishMouse
Minister of Fire
KSBURNER, when you say glowing, do you have double wall or single wall pipe?
If it is only single wall, I would replace it with double wall, just to be safe.
If it is only single wall, I would replace it with double wall, just to be safe.
I have double walled that is non-insulated the runs from the stove up to my ceiling support. The insulated then goes on out the top. My double-walled on top of the stove has vents at the top and bottom that allows you to see the interior section. It was the inside piece that I thought I saw a hint of red, not much. I haven't seen it since, so I am not sure if I even saw it at all now. Our room color is a burnt orange color and the lighting could have caused some reflection that misled me.
On another note, I ran a chimney brush down it this past week after burning for 3 weeks just to see what it was doing. There was basically nothing that came out! I was very happy with the lack of creosote in the chimney system. I think we are also getting more used to the way the stove operates. The past couple nights I have fired it up aroung 10:00 and then don't refill unitl 6:00 in the morning. I usually have a decent bed of coals to start over with in the morning. I have not run the blower through the night so it doesn't cool the stove down near as much, though.
On another note, I ran a chimney brush down it this past week after burning for 3 weeks just to see what it was doing. There was basically nothing that came out! I was very happy with the lack of creosote in the chimney system. I think we are also getting more used to the way the stove operates. The past couple nights I have fired it up aroung 10:00 and then don't refill unitl 6:00 in the morning. I usually have a decent bed of coals to start over with in the morning. I have not run the blower through the night so it doesn't cool the stove down near as much, though.
MishMouse
Minister of Fire
ksburner said:
Kudos to you!
It sounds like you are getting over 8 hour burn times with no build up.
As for the orange color it is possible to get the inside of a double wall pipe glowing especially when you are firing her up.
But, the temps should drop quickly once the AB is engaged.
I bet those vents sure throw the heat, though I do question the vents in a double wall pipe as to a "possible" safety issue.
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