Tractor size?

[SCOTT S.]

I have been looking at getting a tractor. One of the main uses would be to move ibc totes filled with fire wood. I was wondering if anyone would have some knowledge in this area. I would like to have the smallest tractor possible without overextending it's capabilities. Thanks

 

[gzecc]

I have been looking at getting a tractor. One of the main uses would be to move ibc totes filled with fire wood. I was wondering if anyone would have some knowledge in this area. I would like to have the smallest tractor possible without overextending it's capabilities. Thanks

How much will these totes weigh (loaded)? What else will you want the tractor to do, cut grass, pull trailers, snow removal etc... New or used?

 

[SCOTT S.]

From what I have read my guess is about 1700 lbs for a tote filled with green oak. The main use will be firewood and some landscaping. I have a lawn tractor with a snowblower that's 12 years old when it dies I could see the tractor taking its place for snow removal.I'm looking used with a budget on 12k.

 

[Ashful]

If you're talking about putting forks on the loader attachment, you're into some mighty big tractors at 1700 lb. lift capacity. Think 40 hp stuff.

Here's the minimum rig Deere rates for 1700 lb.

https://www.deere.com/en/loaders/front-end-loaders-for-tractors/d170-loader/

If you're willing to move the tote with forks on the 3-point, there may be a few smaller (25 hp) category 1 compact utility tractors that could work.

You're well out of the garden tractor or sub-compact range, at 1700 lb.

The good news is that you'll be able to buy a REAL snow blower, if you're running category 1 or category 2 equipment. Even on my rather tiny (1.3 liter diesel) category 1 tractor, I'm running a 64" Woods snowthrower. At a total weight < 3000 lb. and only 19 hp rated to the PTO, I'm about maxed out with that snow thrower, but it gets the job done.

https://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/html/ag_turf/loader-compatibility/loader-compatibility.html

You can buy orange for less than Deere, if you don't mind the neighbors snickering at you.

 

[kennyp2339]

In the beginning of summer 2016 I bought a kioti 25hp compact tractor, it came with a front bucket, and backhoe, the drive train was hydro. I put about 35-40 hrs on the machine before I finally came to the conclusion that it was to small for my needs, yes having a smaller machine was kinda nice but it was very limited in the amount of work it could do. Last winter I traded (consignment sale) that tractor and bought a Kioti 40 hp, same hydro drivetrain, I've since put about 60 hrs on her and there hasn't been I job I couldn't do yet, this machine is mean in the woods, excels at lifting tree's, dragging logs, yet still surprising small enough to move around in tight places.
I the tractor world, a very wise man told me once (ahmm Ashful) that if buying a compact tractor, go as big as you can, or at least above 30hp. That small piece of advice is every bit worth its weight in gold.

 

[TreePointer]

A used skid steer would also move a heavy tote and likely much easier and safer than a tractor. They are also great with a snowblower attachment, but that's another $2-3000.

Just for reference, the bucket of the tractor in my avatar (see picture above my screen name) is 72" and is holding about 1/6 cord of green wood. The FEL is rated at ~3000 lbs. max. at the pivot; however, that sexy number is only good on paper. With a load extending out 20" from the pivot, it will max out just under 2400 lbs holding 5 feet off the ground and 1700 lbs to 9 feet off the ground. Keeping the load low to the ground (say 6-12' inches) helps to move extra large loads, but moving on hills or uneven ground will make smaller loads necessary.

Because pallet forks can move the load's center-of-mass out even farther, the FEL has an even lower max lift rating when using them. For instance, it's rated to llift 1320 lbs to 9 feet, but you also must subtract the weight of the pallet forks attachment from that number.

(Tractor is 43hp, 4-cylinder diesel and weighs 4000 lbs empty with FEL attached. Deere classifies it as a CUT and not a sub-CUT. Counterweight at the time was 600 lb. implement. Tires are air filled.)

 

[Firemoore98]

Sorry it took me a few days to respond to this thread my first born child was born last week and I wanted to get a chance to snap a few pics before I replied.

I have been using the totes for several years in conjunction with my John Deere 1025R for my firewood years.



This 1025R loader is capable of lifting a little over 1,000lbs at full height, but it can lift more like 1,250lbs about 1' off the ground. I have done a bit of testing with weights and find these numbers to be pretty close. It goes without saying you need something like 80% of loader weight in ballast to be safe for the tractor and prevent dangerous scenarios.




I have over 20 totes filled to the maximum capacity my tractor will safely lift (again about 1,250lbs I can lift only about a foot off the ground). Also note there are a few different sized totes, some are 270 Gallo dish and some are 330ish gallons. These are the big ones. I got them from a plastic recycler that shreds the plastic tote and sold me the metal cages for $5 cash. I had to shop around for several years to find this deal, keep your eyes pealed deals are out there, the food grade totes go for big money, peepers love them, they usually go for @$75 each in my area and that's not necessary for a firewood guy.



Here is a shot of my firewood processing area and a tote in the background. The totes get stored in a higher sun area. I keep them close to the splitter and use the pallet forks and tractor to haul them to their drying area.

Please don't allow this to be controversial... as best I understand it from research a cord of dried ash firewood weights @ 2,800lbs. So if my totes weigh about 1,250, let's be conservative and say I'm getting about 1/3 cord per tote. All of my firewood in those totes was standing dead ash with an average moisture content of 15%.

So in summary a small tractor like a 1025r is plenty up to the task of firewood tote hauling. Sure a larger tractor could lift a tote filled a little more, but I'm very happy with my firewood plan, I work a lot less hard than the average guy to burn 6-7 cords a year in my shop and to heat my house.

Hope this helps

Jason


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[SCOTT S.]

I was hoping a 40hp would do it, much smaller and I wouldn't have the ground clearance I need in the woods lots of rock and uneven ground. I also didn't want a 70hp monster that takes half an acre to turn around. I don't care about the color except for parts availability for years to come.

 

[Firemoore98]

40hp will do it for sure, but having said that 25hp is not a pushover.

I'm sure you will be happy with whatever you get, and couldn't agree more with what you said about parts availability/service, that trumps paint color in my book. My family has several farms in southern Ohio and my uncle has a great saying, "if you drag metal through dirt, your gonna break stuff" the ability to get it fixed quickly and economically is huge

Jason


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[Firemoore98]

40hp will do it for sure, but having said that 25hp is not a pushover.

To haul a loaded tote at 1,250lbs or even filled more than mine at say 1,500lbs or more, you are gonna need your tractor on smooth terrain, even with ballast or your gonna be really pushing the safety limits of your tractor.

I'm sure you will be happy with whatever you get, and couldn't agree more with what you said about parts availability/service, that trumps paint color in my book. My family has several farms in southern Ohio and my uncle has a great saying, "if you drag metal through dirt, your gonna break stuff" the ability to get it fixed quickly and economically is huge

Jason


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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TreePointer]

...my uncle has a great saying, "if you drag metal through dirt, your gonna break stuff" the ability to get it fixed quickly and economically is huge

Your uncle is a wise man. I'l add to his statement by saying "...and learn to weld."

 

[SCOTT S.]

I know several guys with 25-30hp tractors that are happy with them, I didn't mean to put them down. We have 60 acres of rock and craters. For me it's definitely more of a ground clearance thing than a lack of hp.

 

[Firemoore98]

I am not offended in the least. I own one of the smallest tractors they make with a loader, I have to have broad shoulders right?

I was just trying to show you I am successful running a tote firewood operation with the minimum 25hp tractor SCUT class, anything bigger will certainly work too

Jason


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[WoodyIsGoody]

I the tractor world, a very wise man told me once (ahmm Ashful) that if buying a compact tractor, go as big as you can, or at least above 30hp. That small piece of advice is every bit worth its weight in gold.

That settles it then.

I'm saving up for a Cat D8. Will the neighbors snicker if it's yellow?

 

[kennyp2339]

This was the little 25 HP, she could lift a pallet size load of *dried splits about a foot off the ground, ballast was key to keeping good traction.



And this is the 40 HP with little to no ballast

 

[blades]

Problem with a skidsteer in the woods is no clearance under underneath for rock and stumps. tractor or SS each has it place-in a perfect world one of each would be nice. another thing about ss once ya raise the arms you are kinda stuck inside till you lower them again.

Have 32 hp Massey( 99 vintage) ( around 28 at the rear pto I think) only rated at 700 lbs for the bucket lift.

 

[Ashful]

Mine is used mostly for spreading fertilizers, herbicides, and seed on the lawn, using a Herd M12 crop spreader or my 60 gal x 14' boom sprayer. But it's also a snow and wood moving machine, despite being only 25 hp.

Harvesting walnuts:

View attachment 199704

Setting up the tandem aerator:

View attachment 199699

Fitting up the mud and snow chains:, since I run turf tires for the lawn:

View attachment 199700

Drying off the snow thrower:

View attachment 199701

Stacking big rounds:

View attachment 199702

Collecting brush in fire pit.

View attachment 199703

It's a versatile machine, for my needs.

 

[SCOTT S.]

I have a good green tractor story. 12 years ago when I was buying my lawn tractor I had pretty much decided on a husqvarna with a Kawasaki motor. My wife had a client at the time that worked for the local jd dealer so she convinced me to take a look. They had the same size mower with the less expensive Briggs motor for $1000 more than the husky. I asked her client what makes the jd worth $1000 more his response was the prestige of owning a John Deere. My wife knew in that second he lost any chance of a sale. I just turned and walked out. Does anyone really feel prestige in their lawn mower?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I have a good green tractor story. 12 years ago when I was buying my lawn tractor I had pretty much decided on a husqvarna with a Kawasaki motor. My wife had a client at the time that worked for the local jd dealer so she convinced me to take a look. They had the same size mower with the less expensive Briggs motor for $1000 more than the husky. I asked her client what makes the jd worth $1000 more his response was the prestige of owning a John Deere. My wife knew in that second he lost any chance of a sale. I just turned and walked out. Does anyone really feel prestige in their lawn mower?

I do! I have a 1969 and a 1974 Wheel Horse!

 

[Ashful]

I have a good green tractor story. 12 years ago when I was buying my lawn tractor I had pretty much decided on a husqvarna with a Kawasaki motor. My wife had a client at the time that worked for the local jd dealer so she convinced me to take a look. They had the same size mower with the less expensive Briggs motor for $1000 more than the husky. I asked her client what makes the jd worth $1000 more his response was the prestige of owning a John Deere. My wife knew in that second he lost any chance of a sale. I just turned and walked out. Does anyone really feel prestige in their lawn mower?

Pretty sad. It does seem Deere will put their name on just about anything these days, in the residential market.

But making a comparison on lawn tractors, when talking about CUT's or ag tractors, is like buying a house by comparing mailboxes.

 

[SCOTT S.]

The point of my story was not that the husqvarna was a better lawn tractor it was the sales tactic. For all I know the jd was a better machine. Believe me if the right deal came my way I'd love to have a green tractor in shed.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Kubuta 4760

 

[TreePointer]

Personally, I don't care aobut color. In today's market, I'd probably have something orange for a CUT. Years ago, some other brands hadn't been well established in many regions and couldn't guarantee or have the history that Deere did with having parts available for all its older tractors.

When I was living in another city in the 1990's, my father traded in our old Ford tractor for the JD CUT. I came home to see the green machine in the barn and was shocked because my father had a reputation for never overpaying for anything. I learned he got a decent deal on it because the JD dealership owner was a high school classmate of his.

As Ashful mentioned, the consumer grade lawn tractor market is a different beast. Unfortunately, it's devolved into hitting a price point to compete with mass produced models by MTD and AYP.

 

[kennyp2339]

FYI, kioti company has owned bobcat for a long time, they seem to have the best warranty and turn around for parts.
But as with anything the dealer is what makes the sale, the dealer by me is 10 min away, has a full service garage / shop and employes 10-12 full time staff that have been with him for many years. That says something to me and that's more or less how I ended up with that shade of orange in my garage.

 

[SCOTT S.]

We have a bobcat dealer in the area I'm assuming the bobcat tractors are white kioti's?
I am in a good spot as far as repairs I'm fairly handy and have a good buddy up the road that's a heavy equipment mechanic so labor costs are usually measured in 12 packs. So as long as I buy something with long term parts availability I'm not to concerned about dealer support.