Turbulators, Solo Plus 30

[warno]

I built my own for my rectangular heat exchanger in my boiler. I have 2 in the heat exchanger and it made a world of difference. I went from 600+° flue temps to averaging right under 400.

Here's the bigger of the 2

 

[Bad LP]

I thought briefly about making them myself but really wanted something in a spiral. It just made more sense to me. I also have enough projects on my plate.

Now I ordered these turbulators yesterday and they shipped today so I'll have them next week. I don't think they had them sitting on a shelf because they gave me a few options on how I wanted them.

 

[maple1]

There are only really 2 possible disadvantages or things to watch out for with piling the turbs to it. That I can think of.

One is that you don't want to lower flue temps down to close to a condensation point.

The other is that if you slow down exhaust flow too much, you might get into possibly decreasing combustion efficiency - they do have to breath good to get the oxygen in there and all mixed up and all that. In my case, too much turb hurts the draft that the fire sees.

 

[Bad LP]

There are only really 2 possible disadvantages or things to watch out for with piling the turbs to it. That I can think of.

One is that you don't want to lower flue temps down to close to a condensation point.

The other is that if you slow down exhaust flow too much, you might get into possibly decreasing combustion efficiency - they do have to breath good to get the oxygen in there and all mixed up and all that. In my case, too much turb hurts the draft that the fire sees.

Totally understand.
With my flue temps running so high in the 600's I can afford some stack loss that will only enter the water storage.
I have spent hours (with a beverage or twenty) watching this boiler burn and learning everything I could. Between people such as yourself sharing knowledge as well as others here and elsewhere I've learned and plugged a lot of knowledge. An idiot I'm not. A student of hard knocks I am. No college boy here. I work with my hands attached to my brain.

Add in good wood burning owners from here and the information can get into overload quickly. Just need to break it down. I truly believe I've got this nailed down but it won't stop me from hanging around here.

Its FRiday and I am PUI

 

[TCaldwell]

Turb design is deceiving, with a Hotwire anemometer and the Garn on running at 60 hz at ambient air =329cfm, slip in a 8ft professionally twisted turb in the last pass and I’m down to 232 cfm, about a 30pct reduction, so dialed up the fan speed to compensate

 

[DaveBP]

Good point about slowing down the exhaust too much.
That may cause a whole new set of problems for some systems with minimal draft.
In my case, I have too much draft (.06" with the baro wide open.) and might have benefited from a slower fan but now with the exhaust temps down to 350F I don't think any lower would help.

 

[Bad LP]

My draft is already high. Turbulators are an option on the Tarm but not recommended to start out with them per the owners manual. I discussed the issue with Chris at Tarm who informed me I should see a 100 degree decrease in my stack temp.

 

[jebatty]

Does the Tarm 30 have a damper on the draft fan, like the Solo Plus 40 has? If so you have lots of flexibility to adjust the draft to control flue temp. I have homemade chain turbs on my 40 and I also damp down the draft fan so that maximum interior flue temp about 18" above the exit from the Tarm does not exceed 250C (480F), and normal high burn temp is in the 400-450F range. My wood is hot burning dry pine and aspen. To insure that flue temp does not exceed 250C I have a digital temp controller with a K-type probe sensor in the flue which shuts off the draft fan at 250C and turns the fan back on when the temp falls below 250C, which it does rapidly once the draft fan is shut off.

As best as I know the 30 is similar to the 40, just smaller with fewer fire tubes. Personally, with operation to assure flue temp is a range to achieve efficient and safe burns, I would have no issue with turbs in a 30. Your judgment.

 

[maple1]

There is a line there 'somewhere' between lowering flue temps by transferring more heat to the jacket, and lowering flue temps by impeding or taking the edge off your combustion. Transfer efficiency vs. burn efficiency. Seems to be a fuzzy line sometimes. If you can accurately measure your flue temps, along with accurately measuring your boiler dT and flows (my boiler flow seems to vary a bit depending what my load circ is doing), then after a while you might get settled on where that line is. And maybe throwing weighing your wood in too.

 

[Bad LP]

The 30 and 40 are the same basic boiler with 2 more tubes in the chamber. Will be testing this weekend but the weather conditions will not be the same bitter cold I was burning in prior.

 

[Fred61]

I'm betting you'll see favorable results.

 

[maple1]

I'm betting you'll see favorable results.

Yup me too. Should be quite favorable with 600f starting flue temps. I rarely see over 200c/400f.

 

[Bad LP]

I hope to see favorable results as well. If I could burn a little less wood that would make my 150 day burn season wood burning estimates more in line. What I'm not happy with is the prices of converting to panel radiators and Runtal has just obscene pricing if I want to work with 140 degree water.

 

[Fred61]

Can't do the floor thing?

 

[Bad LP]

Can't do the floor thing?

100% of the first floor is 1.5" gypcrete and the 2 baths on the second floor are the same. 2 bedrooms and loft on the second floor are FHW and "Mantown" currently has nothing and remains closed off in the winter. It will require 36 feet of Runtal at 140. Not sure if panel rads will be effective having to be located on an inside wall "looking out" as the 2 exterior walls are nearly floor to ceiling casement windows.

Think of Mantown as a screened in porch on the corner of the house.

 

[maple1]

Ordinary slant fin baseboard can do OK with somewhat lower temps if you put lots in. I do OK down to 130 or so. If that's a possibility. Might tuck under a window? Not sure how much room 'nearly to floor' leaves.

 

[Bad LP]

Ordinary slant fin baseboard can do OK with somewhat lower temps if you put lots in. I do OK down to 130 or so. If that's a possibility. Might tuck under a window? Not sure how much room 'nearly to floor' leaves.

I could get standard 8" in with 2" of airspace below and just clear the window moldings but I really do hate the stuff.

 

[maple1]

Ha ha, it's all in the beholder I guess. I don't really notice it. Then again most of ours is out of sight behind furniture & beds & stuff. I would like some old fashioned cast rads in a couple spots, by my other half doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with looking at those.

 

[Bad LP]

The turbulators I ordered from Fuel Efficiency, LLC out of Clyde NY came today. The timeline on the order is as follows:

Weds. 1-17 I sent a request for info via their website @4:45P
Thurs. 1-18 I got a reply @10:00A, 11:30 it was quoted and some minor adjustments made and a tab size was determined.
Fri. @9:30A I paid by CC for them and @1:30P I had a UPS tracking number.
Today @ 3:00P they were delivered.

I have no idea what these things are worth but I didn't think 30.00 ea was a bad deal. I'm not sure I could have had them much faster if they were in stock and it wouldn't have mattered. They will go up with me for the this weekend and that was the goal.

I'm happy with the company and what they made.

 

[maple1]

Snapped some pics of mine when I was cleaning on Sunday.

I think my new ones were $80 for 3. Plus shipping. They came with a hooky pulling tool, which I already had one of & didn't need - not sure if that was supposed to be included, or was a mistake.

 

[Fred61]

I think I saw a bug in your woodpile.

 

[Bad LP]

I think I saw a bug in your woodpile.View attachment 221476

If I knew how to post pictures I would.

 

[BoiledOver]

I built my own for my rectangular heat exchanger in my boiler. I have 2 in the heat exchanger and it made a world of difference. I went from 600+° flue temps to averaging right under 400.

Here's the bigger of the 2

View attachment 221162

Now that is a fine looking piece. Glad to hear it has worked for your boiler, which by the way is another fine piece of equipment. Job well done @warno !

 

[Bad LP]

Well the weather guys were wrong again. Got here with the outdoor temp reading 1 and it went further south to -7. Brushed out the tubes and shop vac'ed the smoke box. Very little ash and zero sign of creosote. Was happy that testing conditions would be similar to past burns.
Used less wood (about 3/4 of a load less) getting the tanks from 65 to changeover from LP to storage temp of 140. Maybe 90mins less time. Tanks topped out at 180ish with a load on in 4 hours.
Stack temps dropped a solid 175 and smoke box temp only came up a few degrees. Not enough to be a concern.

 

[KenLockett]

I was stunned how simple turbulators could be and still provide a serious increase in heat recovery from the boiler.

I took some 2" wide strips of 1/16" sheet metal (304 stainless in this case) and bent them into a zigzag so they had about 1/2" rattle space in the firetubes. This dropped my average exhaust temps down pretty nearly 100F, from about 450F to 350F.

If you have some heavy chain hanging around, that ought to work, too, and a lot easier. We're just trying to break up the laminar flow of hot gas up the middle of the tubes (and maybe slow the gasses down a little also).

I don't think it would be a good idea on a system without storage though. Things could get pretty gummy in there if it idles alot.

I don't have storage, but idle cycle is rarely more than 60 minutes and more like 30 minutes when 20 Deg or less. My chain turbs only ever have fly ash on them when I remove for cleaning. Like others say I just shake, take out and lay in smoke box, brush tube, then drop back in. Absolutely 100 Deg F drop in stack temp. If you run with them you will not want to run without them again.