UL listed pellet rocket mass heater

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Depending on climate, it might make sense in a sunroom. You could run it maybe twice daily while youa re starting seeds, then once daily as the weather warms, move your vegetable plants outdoors for the summer... bring a few plants back in that are still bearing as first frost looms to get the last of the harvest off them with once daily burns.
Inexpensive plant heatpads under the starts is a whole lot easier and cheaper. That's how our heat loving plants are started in the unheated greenhouse. You could cloche the trays if the space gets really cold. Our tomatoes, peppers, cuke starts are doing fine with the steady little heat from the pads. They keep the soil temp around 72º even though it was 45º in the greenhouse this morning.
 
Inexpensive plant heatpads under the starts is a whole lot easier and cheaper. That's how our heat loving plants are started in the unheated greenhouse. You could cloche the trays if the space gets really cold. Our tomatoes, peppers, cuke starts are doing fine with the steady little heat from the pads. They keep the soil temp around 72º even though it was 45º in the greenhouse this morning.
I have not heard about them. What is the technology here? Electric?
 
This thread really should be in the pellet stove section.

As the guy pointed out, this is a non electric pellet stove like the wiseway that has been around for a while: https://www.wisewaypelletstove.com/

Its advantage is that it can hook up to thermal mass to output heated exhaust to, it is interesting. Would love to see it in the next Stove Challenge.
 
Please do not take this the wrong way. They are approved to and vastly exceed EPA NSPS 2020 standards. My previous statement was very clear on that. The maximum emissions allowed in the 2020 NSPS standards is 2 grams per hour of solid particulate emissions, our heater outputs 0.38 grams per hour. I attached the EPA certified labs test report. I genuinely don't know how much more transparent I can be.

BTU is more a measure of fuel consumption than heat output, but these heaters average between 20k and 35k per hour, depending on variables.


So did the stove get EPA tested with pellets, or cord wood, or crib wood? What will it be listed as, pellet stove or wood stove?

Same question with the UL listing, did you get it tested with pellets or cord wood?
 
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So did the stove get EPA tested with pellets, or cord wood, or crib wood? What will it be listed as, pellet stove or wood stove?

Same question with the UL listing, did you get it tested with pellets or cord wood?
Pellets
 
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Ok, this is important. Would your significant other want this anywhere in your home? Mine would not! Work shop, sure. Garage, sure. Living area, never. It's pretty ugly. My 2 cents.
 
Ok, but the same holds for my car, my tools, and my water heater...

For all products there is a place. For this one too.
 
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Ok, but the same holds for my car, my tools, and my water heater...

For all products there is a place. For this one too.
I think it’s fair to state that after 20 years my wife wouldn’t mind moving me to the garage, basement, etc.
 
All joking aside I am glad there is now a listed option for this. I really think it is a very valid concept that can work well for some people. But up untill now it was all unlisted homemade contraptions. Some I am sure are safe others not so much.


I am still wondering if this unit is actually EPA approved for sale though
 
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I am still wondering if this unit is actually EPA approved for sale though
I would not be surprised if it did pass and just waiting on the list to update. They seem to have been making good sales, so affording a test for a single model was probably easy.

If that tractor supply gravity fed pellet stove is his only competition, he will probably do great. He said it was just him and his dad running it? Thats a nice low overhead, you dont need to steal too many sales from the USSC model to make money like that.

Even better, get the testing done and maybe license it to one of those big manufacturers and make your money that way. Use the proceeds for your next design.

Either way, Im invested in this guys story now and am curious to see how this plays out for him, and I hope he keeps us updated !
 
I agree!
 
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I think this makes for three pellet stoves on the market that require no electricity to run, and I would say that's a GREAT thing!

I'm also hoping the MFG comes back and says whether or not this thing can burn dried wood chips/shreds.
 
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I think this makes for three pellet stoves on the market that require no electricity to run, and I would say that's a GREAT thing!
precisely; while wood stove issues often have to do with draft etc, (or wet wood), I see pellet stove owners often complaining about blinking lights, augers stuck, boards fried.
If all that stuff is gone from the potential issues list, they are great stoves to have. (at the cost of potential draft issues).

(And yes, I understand that the pellet stove complaints on here is also not representative of the majority running without issues and not reporting "no issues" here.)
 
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Gosh even me who knows nothing is impressed by this thread...I was a new stove buyer and on first thought was going to buy a pellet Wiseman stove but the work involved just seemed to be too much for me--cleaning often, filling often and the variety of pellets either made your life miserable by not burning and clogging stuff that made your life miserable and some on the net suggested hard pellets from the east to the cheaper pellets that seems "softer" or something that seems to have a lot of complaints in regard to burning..I switched to just a wood burning stove that did not require energy (electric) in order to burn unless you had a line of batteries and was knowledgeable about such things. I found this article on the net and would really like some input on this small article with pictures...Rocket stoves I am not acquainted with but I am learning little by little..The information on this thread is tremendous for a new stove owner to read if they can understand it. My problem is I love my stove but not enough of a engineering person to understand it adequately. Most people fall in this category and are not as talented as you people in this type of business. That stove sweeper (our guy bholler) once again ask about standards and I think it was answered adequately. All these different type of stoves seem to have a learning curve that is so much information about their different qualities with seemingly a constant amount of work that is involved in the proper running of them..In my particular case I enclosed my porch for my new stove and I love the ambiance of the fire as well as the soft different type of heat feeling. I just got this stove for "emergencies" in regard to today's politics and I am wondering about this environmental log burning that is store bought and would this help for the environment because that's what I am after but only occasional burning I would do in regard to no grid emergencies. I used my stove only about six times and loved it until I got blasted by smoke that cause a severe rash and I am hesitant now to burn anything and its all cleaned out really good and just sitting there like intended only for emergencies. The 24 hour heating of the house in regard to the different stoves is a lot of work to keep up with especially when you have stove parts failing or no dry wood to burn or pellets that burn terrible and flu's not getting draft and doors loosening and cat's not standing up to hard use and have to be replaced (seems often) as well as control board problems and these factors are really difficult for people like me and then on top of that buying "quality wood" with moisture readings of 12% and I got blasted by smoke when I opened up the stove door. This winter after I get over my ailments from stove burning and just wanted to ask a sincere question about these store bought type of wood and are they any better referring to enviro-logs for three hour burning or the pine logs three hour burning which comes in a package of nine logs in wood stoves without having to use electricity. I asked my stove installer and he did not negate them but also at the same time did not recommend them and when I asked again never really answered the question--How do they do with the environment and the health of the users..I so far seem to be impressed with the rocket stoves as well as wood boilers that can be placed outside the home which is very expensive to put in a home for heat. Someone should start maybe a little thread just for people like me who are not mechanically inclined and do not know all the abbreviations that your answers include and this can be frustrating for people who have to look up all the abbreviations or ask questions what does it mean. I am going to be critical now and I am sorry for I love everyone of you--but you are talking over the majority of people who would be interested in stoves but not in the same category as being (my definition--experts). You people spent years learning and using and repairing all this stove stuff but for people like me "above my pay grade here so to speak"..it's interesting to read but it can be so so difficult at times. So maybe they could have a little thread with people like me who knows very little without saying negative things about not wanting to read the manuals because they are just to darn technical for the beginning stove user. Loving the thread and wondering if that is possible.? Here is a article that I found on the net in my area..and would like to know your opinion on this as well as enviro-log burning...clancey
 
Mrs Clancy,

You covered a number of topics in your post. I’ll try to answer the ones I remember, but could have easily missed some.

Re man made logs:

There are 2 major types that I’m aware of. You have compressed sawdust logs (made only with sawdust) and logs that use a binder like wax to hold the sawdust together. It’s safe to use the compressed sawdust logs, but stay away from the ones with petroleum based additives.

You also mentioned stove maintenance. All stoves regardless of being a pellet stove or a wood stove are going to require maintenance. How much depends on the stove and how it’s run. This pellet stove will require maintenance too. It may hold 20 hours of pellet fuel, but if you look at how the assembly goes together, you’re going to fill the area below the burn pot with ash quickly. It’s far from a set it and forget it setup or design.

With regards to the smoke you had spill out of your stove, there’s a learning curve with everything we do in life. A little bit of practice, or a list posted near the stove of steps to take when opening it will go far in stopping future excitement from happening.
 
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With the coming winter if all goes well I will try it again with some of these products just to see how they burn and feel a little bit safer as well.. On the other wood I just cannot take the chance once it was diagnosed and I have suffered "greatly"..but I will give it a whirl once again in the colder months and wear a space suit as I do--lol...Thanks for the information...clancey
 
I know that the electricity is a selling point. But my first thoughts were something to heat water and then a circulating pump. If you built lines or a reservoir into the bench to hold and warm the water to be circulated. Even if it runs through a heat exchanger with a fan to move the air.
 
Its fully compliant to integrating mass and tested and listed to be compatible with thermal mass. Details on how to do so are in the owners manual. Integrating a thermal mass bench is possible, it has been done before by several of our previous customers, and it can make the heater more efficient. As a stand alone unit, the heater is ideal as a pellet stove, and heats 2,000 square feet quire comfortably. A lot of our customers live in environments that are effectively devoid of sufficient biomass, so they import fuel pellets, or are physically unable to chop, stack, and season wood, so they use fuel pellets. This stove is not for everyone. It is, effectively, a pellet stove that does not need electricity, that does not lock you into pellets in that you can burn wood, so the heater is not entirely useless if fuel pellet supplie chains are completely disrupted, and is more efficient than any other gravity fed pellet stove on the market by a long shot. Attached below is a photograph of our previous Gen 1 heater integrated into thermal mass, making it into a true Rocket Mass Heater and a form of masonry heater.

I'm well aware that multiple oxygen atoms need to attach to the various volatile organic compounds to fully burn. We are talking about pareto efficiency here, X amount of combustibles, and in an perfect model, all possible oxides that could form, would form. This would be 100% efficiency. For example, methane is 1 carbon atom and 4 hydrogen atoms. The stoichiometric ratio assuming pure oxygen would be 4 oxygen atoms to one methane molecule. Two for the carbon, to form Co2, and another 2 for the hydrogen atoms, to form water. Of course, wood being a less than ideal fuel containing literally thousands of complex proteins, carbohydrates, cellulose, bio-tar, water moisture, various carcinogens, minerals including non-combustible minerals, and a whole slough of combustion and thermal by-products, coupled with atmospheric air which itself is far from pure, and achieving optimal combustion efficiency can be rather difficult. That we have achieved 0.38 grams per hour of solid particulate emissions, and average less than 10 parts per million of carbon monoxide at any given time, is acceptable to me, given that most natural gas forced air furnaces average approximately 20 parts per million of carbon monoxide.

The EPA updates their approval listing periodically. Come the next update cycle we should be on their public ledger. Attached below are the test results from the EPA lab. We have as far as I can tell and am aware of, the cleanest burning non-catalytic non electric burning heater, and the #3 overall lowest solid particulate emissions and an exceptionally low CO emissions. This is independent EPA certified lab testing. They used the 99.5% combustion efficiency. This was not a figure I derived using my own equipment or practices, as we only have an inexpensive gas flue analyzer available and thus use CO emissions an an analogy to optimize for a full dilution tunnel test as our small business can not afford an in house dilution tunnel. The higher heating value could be better, I will admit, but our exhaust gas temperatures are still fairly low when compared to a wood stove, albeit higher than an electrically fed pellet stove, as we must use some of the heater to induce draft up the chimney. We do have an identical HHV to the wiseway stove, within the margin of error, and are much cleaner burning at less than half the average weighted emissions. The HHV is also better than many pellet stove's on the market, falling in at about average for HHV efficiency. Which is actually fairly good when you consider than we dont use any algorithmic control boards, sensors, regulators, fans, augers to control feed, draft inducers, automatic igniters, heat exchangers, etc. and we can also burn wood when integrated as a mass/masonry heater, so we had to engineer and optimize the heater to burn cleanly, efficiency, and reliably with two very different fuels.

As far as backdrafting up the pellet feed tube, that was thoroughly tested and underwritten by Guardian Firetesting Labs and passed all their safety requirements outlined in UL and ASTM standards, which includes deliberately trying to force a jam, bridge, or blockade, and trying to induce a backdraft. The testing engineers were unable to force a backdraft, jam, or burn-back, despite deliberately attempting to induce those conditions. This design involved 7 years of active and expensive research and development which included materials science, metallurgy, computation fluid dynamic modelling, tested the coefficient of friction of various materials, and long term longevity testing, to achieve this threshold of reliability. Rheological and fluid modelling the flow of sand is notoriously difficult, and fuel pellets proved to be even more complicated. This was actually one of the main sticking problems when we first started development 7 years ago, and we thoroughly designed and optimized the feed system to completely obviate that previously systemic problem.

As far as cost, yes, it is expensive. We are also backordered through June and thus had to raise prices to prevent the backorder log from extending past an entire year as it did in Autumn of last year. Again, this heater is not for everyone. Its a pellet stove that can also burn wood, and is the only rocket heater that is listed to UL standards and building code compliant for thermal mass integration, which means everyone can now legally install a true rocket mass heater if they want a rocket mass heater in their home. Rocket mass heaters aren't for everyone, but there was a gap in the market as they work for many people, and for many people a rocket mass heater does work well with their lifestyle, so we developed a duel use heater that fits two mission profiles very well, gravity fed pellet stoves and building code compliant rocket mass heaters, with one product. It is also a pellet stove with a cooktop plate, which many (but not all) pellet stove's lack.

At the end of the day, we're not a huge company. Its just my father and I applying our engineering and fabrication skills to create value and bring more home and building heating options to people. We aren't the best at every mission profile, what we make isn't for everyone, but its worth considering for some people with specific desires or needs. It looks the way it does and is designed the way it is because we can only use the tools and machines available to us. We do not have fancy ornate cast iron pieces, or similar fancy hinged doors with ceramic fireglass, is because we do not have a 5 million dollar induction melting furnace and hydraulic sand pattern molding press to make heaters out of castings. We have a small welder, a plasma cutter, a small horizontal band saw, a small sheet metal brake, a small air compressor, and an old bridgeport milling machine. Thus we build what we can with the tools we have given what we have available to us. Maybe someday in the far flung future we will have a 5 million dollar induction furnace to make heaters out of recycled scrap iron, but that day is a long ways out. In the meantime, we have to weld them, thus they wont be winning any beauty pageants anytime soon. What I can tell is is that they are robust, American made heaters built and engineered to do their job with the unfaltering, unyielding, relentless reliability for decades at a time as used to be expected of all American manufactured products in a not so exceptionally bygone era, as was common of American industry. I took my personal job in engineering these heaters very seriously, as the designer I considered it my full obligation and duty to design these heaters to never fail, as lives are on the line, a single failure can lead to death in more than a few ways. I have done everything in my power and full scope of ability to ensure that does not happen, that the owners will stay warm, and that the heater will not clog, jam, or fail, or deteriorate via planned obsolescence (my personal arch nemesis, of which there is no other pattern of modernity I loathe more intensely).

Thank you all for the genuine questions, concerns, and wonderful comments. If there is anything else I can assists with or answer I would be elated to do so.

View attachment 293834

I wanted to give you a heads up on the next wood heat design challenge, you could get $$$ to help get some new equipment.


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BTU is a measure of heat energy (and an awkward one at that).
The difference between BTU input (hard, because solid fuels like wood and pellets are variable in BTU/lbs in this respect) and heat BTU output into the room is the stove ....

I would like to weigh in on Rocket Mass Heaters.

I had a friend recommend a rocket mass heater when i was looking for a heating source for a new shed build. all the info is posted on my Permies thread here :


Now, don't get me wrong, when i first heard about this stove, i thought they were fudging the numbers somewhere, and it was a miss-print. But, after building one of these stoves, ( for very little money i might add) i will have to say, that having the barrel glowing red hot - with a firebox temp hot enough to melt copper ( 1900 degrees ?), while the inside of the chimney is less than 200 degree F. is kind of impressive.

As for having to feed it often, agreed - it is kind of a pain in the butt to refill it every 30 - 40 minutes with 4 - 6 2 x 2 sticks, but considering that one 6 hour burn would heat the shed for 3 days - well .... thats also kind of impressive. The entire mass of my stove - 3x3x 13 feet - would be a comfortable 100 degrees - just like laying down on a heating pad...

I am definitely looking at installing one of these stoves in my new Hobbit Home.
 
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