Understanding Keystone Burn Times

Jo191145

Burning Hunk
Sep 29, 2013
175
Central Ct
I think the moisture isn't as much an issue if you have the steel cat, but I don't want a lot of unburned smoke going through it. I figure creosote will stick to the catalyst surface, then burn off but the ash will be stuck; It's not gonna blow right out by mouth, like fly ash does. I wanna see that cat glowing in less than a minute when I close the bypass. It may be that the 201 is capable of lighting off like that due to different cat setup and air routing, but I don't think my Keystone or Fireview can light off without burning in the load. I can't see how much wood could be gassing, just tossing it in and closing the bypass...

It's quite possible the 201 has different characteristics than the more modern cat stoves including the 205. I got the impression even Woodstock considers it the crude red headed step child lol. They merely said it would be hard on cats compared to the 205. Not an outright condemnation but an acknowledgment it needed improvements.
And I think your correct the airflow has a lot to do with it. The 201 still has a crude air inlet on the side door. A manual sliding plate with holes in it. The cat is on the opposite side of the stove from the door.
Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read most folks do that charring burn in with the door cracked. I've found that to be mandatory on the 201 anyway.
Following a burn in I've found mine lacks the air supply to keep a good fire going once the door is closed unless I'm using sticks. The air seems to ride up over the wood into either the open baffle or if closed into the cat causing a cooling effect more than ignition.
Through trial and much error I've discovered as long as I already have decent stove top temps (270+) and bed of coals stuffing it full to the baffle plate and shutting the air fully will get things going faster than trying to use air.
Seems this allows the somewhat stagnated heat in the box and baffle plate to rapidly heat the exterior of the wood to the ignition point. I'm also not getting a ton of smoke from wood that was just charred that got extinguished.
I'll get flame starting on the bottom from the hot coals and the top of the pile starts burning from close proximity with the baffle plate. The ceramic cats are already at or close to ignition temp because I haven't spent time with the door open and air flowing through the box. Lights right up. It also rums best with the air fully closed. Not sure if I still have a leak or it's designed that way. I know it's odd.
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,752
Southern IN
Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read most folks do that charring burn in with the door cracked.
On my 16' stack I don't have to leave the door open unless it's really warm out, but then I'm usually not burning. My BIL has my old 205 on a 13.5' stack and it will start with the door closed as well, in most cases. Both the Fv and Ks breathe pretty easy.
Through trial and much error I've discovered as long as I already have decent stove top temps (270+) and bed of coals stuffing it full to the baffle plate and shutting the air fully will get things going faster than trying to use air.
Very strange. I don't know what to make of that. But yeah, my stoves cruise great with the air almost, or completely closed.
 

Todd

Minister of Fire
Nov 19, 2005
9,246
NW Wisconsin
Definitely fix the ash pan gasket but if that doesn't help there is a small hole in the back of the ash pan housing you may want to plug or partialy plug to slow down your draft. Maybe you just have excessive draft? Your new chimney may solve your problems as well, hard to say. How tall is your chimney?
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,752
Southern IN
How tall is your chimney?
I'm guessing that since it's a 1300 manufactured log home, it's probably one story and the stack isn't excessively tall...
 

Todd

Minister of Fire
Nov 19, 2005
9,246
NW Wisconsin
I'm guessing that since it's a 1300 manufactured log home, it's probably one story and the stack isn't excessively tall...
If that's the case he'll prolly have a whole different stove once he fixes that ash pan leak. You can also tighten the ash pan latch if the gaskets OK.
 
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beardley

Burning Hunk
Feb 5, 2009
100
Cato, NY
so a little off topic, but not really. I have a keystone that I'm still trying to learn the ropes on. I see quite often folks talk about their air setting (1 or .75 etc.) My question is are you guys measuring that from the top of the lever, the middle, or the bottom. What would you call the air setting in the picture?

image.jpg
 

fox9988

Minister of Fire
Jan 15, 2012
616
NW Arkansas
I use roughly the center line of the draft handle. I'd call that ~1.2ish.
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,752
Southern IN
I use roughly the center line of the draft handle. I'd call that ~1.2ish.
Yeah, the zero mark lines up with the center of the handle on mine.
 

Todd

Minister of Fire
Nov 19, 2005
9,246
NW Wisconsin
I always go by the top of the lever, so I'd call that #1, just easier that way for me.

When I place it full open the top of the lever is on #4 but like Woody and Fox 0 is about in the middle.
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,752
Southern IN
I always go by the top of the lever, so I'd call that #1, just easier that way for me. When I place it full open the top of the lever is on #4 but like Woody and Fox 0 is about in the middle.
OK, I guess we'll switch to your way so we're all on the same page. You are the resident Keystone guru, after all... >>
 

midfielder

Feeling the Heat
Dec 17, 2011
295
NH
Before we chose our Keystone over the larger Progress, I asked them in the showroom about burn times and output. The salesperson couldn't answer but an older staff member from the office chimed in and said the Keystone would average about 15k btu/hr over an 8 hour burn. That seems to be about what it does so in the cold weather, the house cools off overnight. I had a hard time getting mine to run slow at first - it loved to try to go nuclear when really stuffed with wood. The ash pan door gasket factory install was bad and I had to replace it. I thought that would fix it but it only helped a little. The first time I took the cat out to clean it, I discovered that the guys who installed the stove hadn't tightened the top panel down when they converted the thing from top vent to back vent :mad:. The back outlet panel was tight, but the top cover's screws were only finger tight. When I put it back together correctly, it started running like I thought it should. Now eight hours overnight with decent heat output is normal.
 

beardley

Burning Hunk
Feb 5, 2009
100
Cato, NY
Glad we have a little consensus. I'm still learning this stove, but so far it's been great. It made me nervous the past few days with some high burn temps, just shy of 700, but I'm thinking the STT that came with it is off. I bought an IR therm today, and it was showing about 100 less than the STT. Unfortunately I didn't realize the one I bought only goes to 450, so it's going back to lowes tomorrow.

Good to know on the 15k btu thing. My house is ~1400 sq ft, and we have a 19k btu heat load @ -3F. We just had the place insulated so I've been trying to get it up to temp. Just about there. The house is @ 65 right now. I have 1 1/2" of plaster that was 20F a few days ago so it's taking a while to warm up!
 
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midfielder

Feeling the Heat
Dec 17, 2011
295
NH
Yeah, if it's been over fired, I think you need to make sure that all the seals are ok - go over it with a fine toothed comb when you have the chance. If it seals and the cat is ok you'll be in good shape. If not, it won't run to spec.
 

beardley

Burning Hunk
Feb 5, 2009
100
Cato, NY
Yeah, if it's been over fired, I think you need to make sure that all the seals are ok - go over it with a fine toothed comb when you have the chance. If it seals and the cat is ok you'll be in good shape. If not, it won't run to spec.
I don't think I overfired. In fact I think I've been running cooler than I thought. IR was showing 100 degrees lower. That was around 350 though, so I'll have to see what it looks like on the upper end when I get a new IR that will go over 700.
 

midfielder

Feeling the Heat
Dec 17, 2011
295
NH
Thought you said it had been over-fired by previous owner... No offense intended ;-)
 

fox9988

Minister of Fire
Jan 15, 2012
616
NW Arkansas
@radtechrad, did you get the leak fixed? How is the stove working for you?
 

radtechrad

New Member
Jan 11, 2015
22
Pennsylvania
@radtechrad, did you get the leak fixed? How is the stove working for you?
Well, I finally gave up on the stove. I took it apart in order to replace the gaskets. They were all dry rotted. I noticed the grate was pretty severely cracked as well. The previous owner must have
really beat the heck out of it. Although I have nothing negative to say about the stove (how is it supposed to operate with so many issues due to abuse?) I did replace it with a
Pacific Energy non-cat stove. It has a larger firebox and is very easy to operate. I'm very pleased with it so far.
 
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