Unique, difficult situation - need suggestions.

[konakid]

This less than satisfactory chimney installation is causing me problems. Here in Hawaii, wood stoves are rare, except at some higher elevations like here. So installers are hard to come by.

This situation, as you can see from the photo, has 16 ft. of 6 inch stove pipe to the interior roof - then another 14 ft of 8 inch chimney pipe.

The problem is that the screen in my cap clogs up about every 9 months and my 6 inch brush does no good once it gets into the eight inch pipe and cap. So I just thrash and bang the brush around once it gets to the cap screen. And that is good enough to knock enough stuff off to get the draw working for another 9 months. But to do so I must disassemble the interior stove pipe, move the stove, etc. - a less than pleasant job.

I think if I could just get the screen cap totally clean once, I would be able to keep it open with the knowledge I have since gained here on proper burning techniques.

Does anyone have a suggestion of a brush or technique that might help clean that cap screen better than my "thrash and bang" technique. Eventually I will have to get a crane in here and just remove the screen altogether. But as you can see, that is a financial and logistical nightmare. And as you can see, the roof is a major safety concern - slippery, step, and high.

Thanks for any and all advice.

 

[BrowningBAR]

This less than satisfactory chimney installation is causing me problems.

Do not blame the installer for poor quality fuel. Use dry wood and avoid the clogged cap issue.

 

[DexterDay]

Get a "Soot-Eater" and dont trim it.... Just whip it.

Why does it go from 6" to 8"? Is it single wall pipe inside the home? I would be tempted to just buy 8" single wall and have 8" all the way up... Then use Soot-Eater (properly trimmed) from the bottom up..

I agree with BrowningBar... Dry wood and it wont get clogged to begin with (along with other proper techniques).

But look up Soot-Eater. You have to trim the lines to length when you get it. But I would use it straight out of the box to clean the cap, then l)trim to8" length to clean upper 8" sections... Then look into getting 8" for the inside.

What type of stove do you have? Whats the recommended flue size?

 

[mellow]

Will an 8" soot eater head go through a 6" liner if it is not being spun around? I do not have one, hence the question.

 

[fossil]

If you're sure you're talking about inside diameters, I'm confused by the interior stove pipe being 6", while the exterior chimney pipe is 8". The entire flue should be the same diameter (inside) as your appliance stove collar. How (and why) was that size transition made? It doesn't bode well for draft, as the cross-sectional area of the flue interior increases from ~28 in² to ~50 in² at that junction. That's about a 78% increase in area...it's going to slow the flue gas stream significantly. On a flue setup as tall as yours is, it'll allow those gases to cool all the way up, more than they would were the pipe all the same size, increasing the likelihood of creosote condensing out onto the interior of the flue, and especially at the cap. Rick

 

[FyreBug]

There is quite an easy solution to all of this. If you fly my wife and I over to Hawaii, I'll spend a week or more looking for a solution. Of course, I may have to walk away for a few days to meditate on how best to handle the situation...

 

[DexterDay]

Will an 8" soot eater head go through a 6" liner if it is not being spun around? I do not have one, hence the question.

The "head" is only about 2" in diameter. It holds the trimmer line. When it comes, its large enough to over a 16" diameter. But the instructions tell you how to properly trim it to the needed size.

Here is my Soot-Eater. One trimmed to size (6" flue) and the other new in package (needs trimmed to 8" for my Pre-Fab).

Hope this helps.

 

[konakid]

Do not blame the installer for poor quality fuel. Use dry wood and avoid the clogged cap issue.

Thanks for the advice. And as mentioned - if I could get the screen totally clean now I would have better success keeping it that way with all I have learned here.

But Hawaii provides some interesting problems regarding proper burning techniques. First, it is very hard to get wood as dry as I would like it - I use 5 year old wood as it is. Humidity where I am (in the mountains) is 100 % every night, and 70-80% every day.

Plus, when I am burning, the outside temp is only in the low 60s - so a good brisk draw is not as easy to create as you guys can with ultra low outside temp differentials. And getting a nice high temp at the cap 30 feet away is another factor. So eliminating any condensation at the cap is difficult. And I think that just attracts any soot that over time clogs things up - not even necessarily a creosote accumulation, but a sooty mixture.

So, the fact remains that even in the best of situations, I need to clean that cap screen from time to time. But only being able to clean it partially IMO allows it to clog more quickly again than it would otherwise - every 9 months is getting old.

 

[konakid]

If you're sure you're talking about inside diameters, I'm confused by the interior stove pipe being 6", while the exterior chimney pipe is 8". The entire flue should be the same diameter (inside) as your appliance stove collar. How (and why) was that size transition made? It doesn't bode well for draft, as the cross-sectional area of the flue interior increases from ~28 in² to ~50 in² at that junction. That's about a 78% increase in area...it's going to slow the flue gas stream significantly. On a flue setup as tall as yours is, it'll allow those gases to cool all the way up, more than they would were the pipe all the same size, increasing the likelihood of creosote condensing out onto the interior of the flue, and especially at the cap. Rick

There was one, and only one chimney installer on the island where I live. And as you can see from the photo, it was a dangerous and difficult installation as is. And it was a 5 hour round trip drive for him to get here. I realize now why it would be better having everything one size, but I assumed the installer knew what he was doing. (You know what they say about assuming)

And to re-do the chimney, stove pipe, transition box, and the roofing now would be extremely expensive. And after I do the half-assed cleaning I have been doing, everything works like a champ. This Pacific Energy Summit is a great stove. So I kinda have to work with what I have. The stove is 6 inch, so I could re-line the chimney to 6 inch, but there is no contractor here that is even willing to do the work. And I don't feel like hanging off a crane myself.

But the soot eater gizmo looks like it may be worth a try. Has anyone had experience with how that works on the screen in the cap. Any danger of having it "catch hold" and get stuck up there.

I am appreciating the feedback and advice. Please keep any and all coming.

 

[konakid]

There is quite an easy solution to all of this. If you fly my wife and I over to Hawaii, I'll spend a week or more looking for a solution. Of course, I may have to walk away for a few days to meditate on how best to handle the situation...

I almost started to consider it - with an iron-clad guarantee on your part of course.

 

[fossil]

I almost started to consider it - with an iron-clad guarantee on your part of course.

Careful...FyreBug would get over there and immediately start negotiating contract extensions.

That really is a lovely, idyllic quintessentially Hawaiian photo of your beautiful island home. I can hear the ukes & taste the Mai Tais just gazing at it.

I have a SootEater I use for both of my stove flues, I like it very much, and I think it just may well do the job for you. I have a couple of pics I'll go looking for.

 

[DexterDay]

But the soot eater gizmo looks like it may be worth a try. Has anyone had experience with how that works on the screen in the cap. Any danger of having it "catch hold" and get stuck up there.

I am appreciating the feedback and advice. Please keep any and all coming.

I dont think it will get stuck... Although it may Tear the screen apart? If you went slow and didnt go Buck Wild, I think that the Soot-Eater would be the perfect tool. And you can always buy an extra head and do the 6", take it down and then put the 8" head on and away you go......

 

[fossil]

Couple of pics. A head as shipped, and another as trimmed for 6" flue. The basic kit includes 6 - 3' rods, so to get to the top of your setup, you'll need to buy some additional rods. I had to do the same. I don't run the drill fast, just keep it turning at a moderate rate in either direction. As I add rods, and approach the cap, I can feel when it bumps the inside of the cap. Then I just spin the drill (not maxed, out speed-wise, just moderately), move it up & down a few times, change direction of rotation a few times, and that's it, done, start bringing it all back down. Cleans out the cap screen just fine, without any sort of snagging or hanging up. If you trim the strings on one head for 8" per the included instructions, I really don't think you'll have a problem getting it up through the 6" piping. Rick

 

[jeff_t]

Certainly is a piece of paradise there.

Trying to burn a Summit in 60° temps, and be comfortable, probably doesn't help the situation, either. Unless 90+ in the house is comfortable in Hawaii...

 

[konakid]

Certainly is a piece of paradise there.

Trying to burn a Summit in 60° temps, and be comfortable, probably doesn't help the situation, either. Unless 90+ in the house is comfortable in Hawaii...

I understand it is difficult to understand my situation. It is truly unique in the world to need additional heating in the tropics. That is, unless you live at elevations that bring temps into the low sixties and you live in a house with zero insulation and with permanently open windows in the roof peak to allow constant open air circulation. In other words, it is like one big giant tent. And the Summit when running full bore can raise the temp about 15 degrees above outside temp. So when it is 60 outside, it can be 75 inside. I bit overkill, but better than undersized. I can always open another window.

In fact, without the stove burning most evenings, and without the air circulation provided with the numerous ceiling fans and home design, the mold and mildew problem inside the home would be horrendous.

 

[konakid]

Couple of pics. A head as shipped, and another as trimmed for 6" flue. The basic kit includes 6 - 3' rods, so to get to the top of your setup, you'll need to buy some additional rods. I had to do the same. I don't run the drill fast, just keep it turning at a moderate rate in either direction. As I add rods, and approach the cap, I can feel when it bumps the inside of the cap. Then I just spin the drill (not maxed, out speed-wise, just moderately), move it up & down a few times, change direction of rotation a few times, and that's it, done, start bringing it all back down. Cleans out the cap screen just fine, without any sort of snagging or hanging up. If you trim the strings on one head for 8" per the included instructions, I really don't think you'll have a problem getting it up through the 6" piping. Rick

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Thank you very much for taking the time for your post.

Question --- I have 30 feet of high end fiberglass rods now. And they are just stiff enough to get to that height without getting all "floppy" on me. Does anyone know if I can easily adopt a Soot Eater head to be used with my rods? And can I buy just a head? Or will I have to buy the complete set up with all the extra rods. And do you think that if I use their complete setup, will their "floppy" rods work stiffly enough for a 30 foot run?

Is it permissible to ask a good place to buy the parts if available individually? Perhaps a PM if not allowable to answer that publicly.

 

[fossil]

I understand. Staying on Maui a lot of years ago, my wife & I decided to do the "Haleakala Sunrise" thing. So, early the next morning, I pulled on my shorts & a t-shirt, hopped in the rental car, and away we went. At the top of that mountain I thought I would freeze to death before I ever saw the sun. Elevation, elevation, elevation.

 

[fossil]

Amazon.com has the kits & spare parts. Others may as well...perhaps Ace Hardware. Adapting rods could be real tricky, as most rods seem to thread together, while the Sooteater rods have a sort of click-lock set-up. Don't even know whether or not that's feasible. The Sooteater rods will thrash around up in there, especially the higher up you go, but if you just go easy on the drill speed, you're not going to damage anything. Rick

 

[jeff_t]

I understand it is difficult to understand my situation. It is truly unique in the world to need additional heating in the tropics. That is, unless you live at elevations that bring temps into the low sixties and you live in a house with zero insulation and with permanently open windows in the roof peak to allow constant open air circulation. In other words, it is like one big giant tent. And the Summit when running full bore can raise the temp about 15 degrees above outside temp. So when it is 60 outside, it can be 75 inside. I bit overkill, but better than undersized. I can always open another window.

In fact, without the stove burning most evenings, and without the air circulation provided with the numerous ceiling fans and home design, the mold and mildew problem inside the home would be horrendous.

I am enlightened. So, you burn year round, then?

 

[blades]

Just a thought, seeing as you have a humidity problem, does any one sell the compressed bio bricks ( super giant pellet) over there? If you are purchasing wood it might be an option. If available and you were to run a mix might be a help also as a way of spreading the cost.

 

[begreen]

I understand. Staying on Maui a lot of years ago, my wife & I decided to do the "Haleakala Sunrise" thing. So, early the next morning, I pulled on my shorts & a t-shirt, hopped in the rental car, and away we went. At the top of that mountain I thought I would freeze to death before I ever saw the sun. Elevation, elevation, elevation.

LOL. We caught that way when visited some farms on the big island. Down below it was sunny and 80F, but up around 1000ft it was 60F and foggy. They said this was the daily norm.

 

[konakid]

Thanks again for all the feedback. I am ordering two Soot Eater "systems" from Amazon - cheaper than ordering the extra rods, and then I'll have two heads as well. And maybe the Super Saver free shipping will apply. I also realized that adapting my other screw-on rods could get me in trouble if I ran the drill in the wrong direction by accident.

To answer a few questions:
Yes I burn year round. The open house design will quickly assume the outside temp if I don't. And even in summer the night time temp can fall below 70. And after living in Hawaii for any length of time, we become real lightweights when it comes to cold. Even a 65 degree house is not very "cozy." And as mentioned, it helps a lot to control the mildew. And I live in a forest, so wood is plentiful. It's the drying time that is a killer. And no, there are very few fireplace suppliers where I live (only one now, 5 hours round trip away) - and no alternative fuels. I hear some ranch folks have pellet stoves, but I have no idea how they ship in their fuel.

And FYI - in the tropics the temp can drop around 5 degrees per 1000 ft elevation. So at 3000 ft. it gets into the 50s at night consistently in winter. Brrrrrrrrrrr. (I'm at 2200 ft) And with the peak of the two mountains here on the Big Island well over 13,000 ft, we even have snow in winter.

So whenever I talk about my wood stove in Hawaii, it takes a lot of explaining.

 

[Ashful]

I have absolutely no advice to give on the chimney, but that is a BEAUTIFUL property.

 

[dafattkidd]

What kind of wood do you burn in Hawaii? This is an interesting thread. Thanks for posting and good luck cleaning that sucker.

 

[begreen]

Please don't say koa.