Update....Vermont Castings Defiant 1610 Non-Cat

[pbk835]

Hello, several weeks ago I asked for some help on issues with my VC Defiant non-cat stove. I was having back puffing and the stove was starved for oxygen.....it would really only run with the damper open or else I would get visible smoke from backpuffing or a strong smoke odor.

I replaced my griddle gasket, cleaned the chimney, had a professional clean the chimney and still had issues. I finally asked for help here and got some great information.

I called my dealer who informed me that my stove (purchased in 07) was not under warranty due to VC changing hands again. He was very helpful though and gave me a fair price on parts.

I disassembled the stove and found the shoe gasket virtually incinerated and the fountain assembly in pieces. When I received my new fountain assembly I was shocked just had badly mine had fallen apart.

Anyway, the stove is back in service and running great! No odor, maintaining about 500 degrees on a surface thermometer, and I just have to figure out what I will get for burn times now. I lost about 4-5 weeks and had to order oil which is unheard for our house!

Just wanted to thank everyone for the help. The responses and posts I searched gave me the info to talk intelligently with my dealer and the confidence to order several hundred dollars in parts. Thanks again, this is a great forum!

PS. I don't know what I would have done without the stove tonight, supposed to be -8! THANK YOU

 

[VCBurner]

Good luck pbk! I guess it's not we that need luck, it's the people without stoves! Glad to hear everything worked out with your stove. Like you I have been learning on this site since I joined, and continue to grow as a wood burner. Yes, thanks Hearth.com members!

 

[defiant3]

PBK, would you mind sharing the name of the dealer that was so helpful? It's always good to know who our friends are.

 

[Todd]

Hopefully the fountain assembly won't be toast in another 3 years. Any idea why it didn't last?

 

[defiant3]

I've seen more than afew fail. Might not be my first choice, although the warranty IS very good; now...

 

[pbk835]

The dealer was Plymouth Fireplace in Plymouth, MA

Not sure why it failed, other than it is probably a poor design/system. I pray to God it doesn't fail again within a few years, if so, it's the last VC stove I'll buy. I purposely went with the non-cat to avoid this issue....

I asked the dealer if these stoves are made for "weekend warriors"...We burn ours 24/7. He said it certainly should have lasted longer and kept the assembly (or what was left of it) to show to the VC rep. Hopefully I'll have a few more answers in the future.

For now, I'll keep my fingers crossed, the stove is working great!

 

[chicoide]

We had similar trouble with our defiant non cat, we ended up taking it apart to find the shoe gasket was the culprit, it was not installed correctly the first time around, we had it replaced and we took it apart again to find it was not right the second time. I ordered a new gasket but we decided it was too cold and didnt wait for the gasket, we ran it without the gasket and it has been working beautiful. We took it apart just yesterday to clean it out and nothing is wrong with the shoe refractory. So we have decided not to replace the shoe gasket and wait til warmer weather to do that when the glue can sit for a few days to dry before installing it. We do not have any more back puffing and it seems to be keeping our 2000 +sq ft nice and toasty. I understand now, what everyone meant by you will be able to tell when it is burning correctly. Hardly any smoke out of the chimney and the glass is always clean and not smoked over.

 

[pbk835]

Glad to hear you got yours fixed as well....my dealer said the VC rep said no glue was required for the shoe gasket. He said I could use a little gasket cement just to hold it in place while installing the fountain assembly/shoe refractory. I went with no glue, though I wonder what the gasket looks like after getting everything in place.

As for now, the stove is working great. The only difference I have noticed is a decrease in burn time, but I am burning some very dry oak. Before I would get 8 hours no problem, now it seems more like 6. I might mix in some stuff I split this summer to see if it slows things down.

I too have had clean glass and also very little ash buildup. What a relief to have this back in service! Now, I just cross my fingers that the fountain assembly lasts!

 

[Ductape]

Did you replace the fountain yourself ? If so, how much of the stove had to come apart? Did you take any pictures of the process?


Thanks

 

[pbk835]

I did take the stove apart myself and it was actually pretty easy and only took 1/2 hr - 45 minutes. I did not take any pics, but there were not too many seperate parts and fortunately all the nuts/bolts came apart freely.

 

[raybonz]

The dealer was Plymouth Fireplace in Plymouth, MA

Not sure why it failed, other than it is probably a poor design/system. I pray to God it doesn't fail again within a few years, if so, it's the last VC stove I'll buy. I purposely went with the non-cat to avoid this issue....

I asked the dealer if these stoves are made for "weekend warriors"...We burn ours 24/7. He said it certainly should have lasted longer and kept the assembly (or what was left of it) to show to the VC rep. Hopefully I'll have a few more answers in the future.

For now, I'll keep my fingers crossed, the stove is working great!

They were the company I got my Dutchwest from back in 1988 before VC bought them.. They were located in the Plymouth Industrial Park next door to the RMV..

Ray

 

[Ductape]

I did take the stove apart myself and it was actually pretty easy and only took 1/2 hr - 45 minutes. I did not take any pics, but there were not too many seperate parts and fortunately all the nuts/bolts came apart freely.

I anticipate having to do mine this spring. Were you able to remove the fireback and change the fountain going through the front doors of the stove, or did the whole stove need to be disassembled ? Aside from the fountain, were there any other unseen parts you needed to order (mine will also need a fireback) ? I'm disappointed I gut sucked into the Vermont Castings sham, since when my Defiant is running well it heats the heck out of our house. The fact that they refuse to offer any type of warranty on their replacement parts indicates that we should expect to have to rebuilt our stoves every few years till they decide to stop making these replacement parts.

 

[pbk835]

I was able to replace the assembly from the front of the stove. Had to remove the heat shield in the back, just four screws and the andirons in the front. Then the retainer clips are through- bolted (this is why you need to take off the rear heat shield). Then the left and right firebricks, which I was able to slide out because my retainers on the top were not doing much. I was able to bend them back in place.

My side bricks are pretty fragile, one was together by a thread, so I ordered a new one of these as well, but that goes back together last, so no big deal to swap out.

After this I took out the grate which holds the shoe refractory in place. Then it was just sliding out the shoe refractory, cleaning up the shoe gasket (which was disintregrated) and pulling out the fireback (luckily in one piece).

Then, the cause of all the problems the fountain assembly. Mine was in pieces, totally falling apart. I was nervous about being able to reinstall because I had such a mess. I was shocked when I got my new one, it was so easy, just one solid piece, not particles, not 10 pieces, and it just slid right in. I didn't like the price or the lack of warranty as you mentioned.

My dealer thought the assembly should last 10 yrs, I started burning this stove in winter of 07 and mine was junk towards the end of last year til the start of this year to the point I had to do something. I don't look forward to replacing this thing biannually or even every 5 years. This was why I bought a NON-cat. Live and learn I guess.

If you need any help, you can email me at [email protected] On a bright note, the stove is running great again, we'll see how long it lasts....

 

[Ductape]

Thanks for the info. I know my fountain is headed south because when I was cleaning the stove, I found what I can only describe as large, grey, cornflake looking pieces down by the shoe. I put a couple of the flakes in a ziplock bag and brought them to my dealer. They confirmed the pieces were part of the fountain and showed me another customer's stove that was in their shop for the same problems. Of course, they told me I was on my own since Vermont Castings was not honoring the 'lifetime' warranty on the refractory parts. We have less than two full heating seasone on our stove........ so as far as I can see this is going to be a regular occurance. What's the answer? Try to sell a junk stove I paid $2400 for at a total loss and buy another brand........ or fix it at a cost of $3 - 500 every two to three years and keep it ????? I will certainly relay my experience to anyone I can , and for as long as Vermont Castings refuses to own up to their problems, never consider purchasing another one of their stoves.

 

[drivfour]

I aquired vc defiant with cat- took stove apart with great difficulty- removed the wedge and the back plate was trapped under the assembly that has the rotating damper mounted on its lower side.
removed the backside upper two bolts on the outside back wall- when I went to reinstall these bolts the nut or ???? missing. can someone tell me the type of part that goes on the upper inside of the stove that mates with these bolts- is it a nut, nut on top of a large washer or plate?

Thanks for help in advance- local dealer does not seem to diassaemble stoves very often.

JD

 

[begreen]

Welcome JD. You may get a better response by starting a new topic on your stove questions.

 

[defiant3]

JD, I confess I'm not as intimate with Defiants as most other VC prod.s but I thought there were in fact 4 bolts holding the upper fireback to the back. THe Encore has 2 and is certainly a tough one to figure; not to sound foolish but could it be a Defiant Encore that you have?? Hopefully not a dumb question....

 

[drivfour]

you are correct, it says encore below Defiant- new to site, did not know there were many variants- going to create new post