VC Older Encore 0028 Secondary Air Control??

[Eman85]

Primary air operation might be slightly different and that’s about it really.

Old probe/coil was stuck shut before so it shouldn't be a problem. More concerned about an overfire with that secondary possibly reopening. It sounds like this has happened to some in the past.

 

[Eman85]

Just a follow up. I had to trim the S section of the secondary control rod a little as it would still bind when cooling down and hold the shutter closed not allowing the coil to unwind to the 4 o'clock position. Now with the rimmed rod the stove heated up, closed the secondary shutter and the coil did go around to about 7 o'clock. The on cool down it was able to return to 4 0'clock and open the secondary shutter. So for what it's worth it is functioning now. Still concerned about the possibility of it going further if the cat got hotter (went to almost 1500 last night) and reopening the secondary shutter and causing an over fire. It does seem to make sense that the purpose is to allow air in when the fire dies down to allow the cat oxygen to burn.

 

[Eman85]

Well lets try another theory on secondary air.
I fired the stove and activated the cat all was good and the cat was at 1000* cruising with the primary about 1/2. Firebox had a nice glow and light flames. Went in the other room for a while and smelled a little smoke like the stove puffed. Sure enough it puffed and cat was at 1600* but it started dropping. looked at the secondary and the coil had passed 7 o'clock and had opened the shutter. Cat continued dropping to 1470 and settled. secondary shutter closed to a small slit.
Let's talk about secondary air control. Is it supposed to reopen at 1600 to prevent overheat?

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Just to chime into what Randy mentioned earlier, the best operation I achieved with my 0028 Encore was after I just disabled the secondary air and controlled the fire with the primary air. Like you, I could never get the secondary air to behave consistently, even after replacing the entire coil assembly with a new one.
There was a bunch of information on the secondary air for these stove on the forum, but lots of it was buried in threads talking about other issues so they are probably lost to most people.

 

[Eman85]

Just to chime into what Randy mentioned earlier, the best operation I achieved with my 0028 Encore was after I just disabled the secondary air and controlled the fire with the primary air. Like you, I could never get the secondary air to behave consistently, even after replacing the entire coil assembly with a new one.
There was a bunch of information on the secondary air for these stove on the forum, but lots of it was buried in threads talking about other issues so they are probably lost to most people.

What I find interesting is the problems I had with the secondary rod or linkage. I'd say my coil has been binding since new and I wonder how many others were doing this. I looked at a replacement parts picture and it looks like they changed the "S" design where it slides into the coil. Since modifying my linkage rod the coil will allow the secondary air shutter to return to the original 4 o'clock position.
I sure would like to have the actual original design specs and know the temps and position this shutter should be and the intended function of it. I can say that I was surprised to see it open as much as it was when the cat was at 1600*. In the original owners manual in secondary air description it states that it the secondary air meters the proper amount of air into the passageway depending on temperature it senses in the combustion chamber. This helps compensate for the variable nature of wood combustion and offset some of the problems associated with the burning of inadequately seasoned fuel.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

What I find interesting is the problems I had with the secondary rod or linkage. I'd say my coil has been binding since new and I wonder how many others were doing this. I looked at a replacement parts picture and it looks like they changed the "S" design where it slides into the coil. Since modifying my linkage rod the coil will allow the secondary air shutter to return to the original 4 o'clock position.
I sure would like to have the actual original design specs and know the temps and position this shutter should be and the intended function of it. I can say that I was surprised to see it open as much as it was when the cat was at 1600*. In the original owners manual in secondary air description it states that it the secondary air meters the proper amount of air into the passageway depending on temperature it senses in the combustion chamber. This helps compensate for the variable nature of wood combustion and offset some of the problems associated with the burning of inadequately seasoned fuel.

Yeah unfortunately I don't have much more input. I fiddled with it's "cold position" for a long time but could never get it operating consistently. The stove was problem enough even after a rebuild that I eventually just ended up selling it and getting a new stove.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

To my understanding no… it’s not suppose to reopen. What I believe is happening is the coil continues to expand and the flapper goes “past zero”. It’s starts to open up on top of the flapper. Hence me putting magnets on the bottom side of the flapper.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Yeah unfortunately I don't have much more input. I fiddled with it's "cold position" for a long time but could never get it operating consistently. The stove was problem enough even after a rebuild that I eventually just ended up selling it and getting a new stove.

I want to replace mine with a BK Ashford.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

I want to replace mine with a BK Ashford.

I love my Princess, though I am ironically having thermostat issues with it right now. Seems to be uncommon though, and my dealer is supposed to be doing a warranty replacement.
Even at its worst though, it is so much better than the Encore was at its best.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I love my Princess, though I am ironically having thermostat issues with it right now. Seems to be uncommon though, and my dealer is supposed to be doing a warranty replacement.
Even at its worst though, it is so much better than the Encore was at its best.

That is interesting. Seeing as how BK has done a much better job with the thermostat than VC has.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

That is interesting. Seeing as how BK has done a much better job with the thermostat than VC has.

Yeah, just seems to be an issue of the bimetallic coil being wound incorrectly. So when it gets hot it opens more, rather than closes, and when it gets cooler it closes more, rather than opening. Seems to just be a defect, and they have been willing to replace under warranty.

 

[Eman85]

To my understanding no… it’s not suppose to reopen. What I believe is happening is the coil continues to expand and the flapper goes “past zero”. It’s starts to open up on top of the flapper. Hence me putting magnets on the bottom side of the flapper.

I'm a little confused as mine doesn't open on top of the shutter. The spring rotates around past 6 o'clock and keeps going and opens the shutter again at the bottom just like when cold. At 1600 it's open more than it was cold.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

I'm a little confused as mine doesn't open on top of the shutter. The spring rotates around past 6 o'clock and keeps going and opens the shutter again at the bottom just like when cold. At 1600 it's open more than it was cold.

Wait, so yours isn't slightly above the opening when cold, like in this picture?

 

[Eman85]

Wait, so yours isn't slightly above the opening when cold, like in this picture?
View attachment 305249

Mine is exactly like that cold. Then as it heats the spring expands and closes the shutter. Then when it gets very hot the spring tab passes 7 o'clock and starts reopening the shutter at the bottom just like it did at 4 o'clock.
I don't grasp what the magnets at the bottom of the stove would do. The shutter never drops below closed, it stops there, then reopens at the bottom.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Mine is exactly like that cold. Then as it heats the spring expands and closes the shutter. Then when it gets very hot the spring tab passes 7 o'clock and starts reopening the shutter at the bottom just like it did at 4 o'clock.
I don't grasp what the magnets at the bottom of the stove would do. The shutter never drops below closed, it stops there, then reopens at the bottom.

Oh ok. He placed the magnets below the opening, as seen in the previous picture, sticking out in such a position that they prevent the shutter from over-rotating and thus the it stay closed until the stove cools and it rotates back up. The shutter hits the magnets and stops there.

 

[Eman85]

Oh ok. He placed the magnets below the opening, as seen in the previous picture, sticking out in such a position that they prevent the shutter from over-rotating and thus the it stay closed until the stove cools and it rotates back up. The shutter hits the magnets and stops there.

Mine over rotates but reopens when the rod pulls the shutter back up. It doesn't drop down as it can't drop down there is a rivet in the shutter that prevents it from dropping below closed. In your drawing there is a black dot on the lower left of the shutter, that is the rivet stop that prevents the shutter from dropping past closed.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Mine over rotates but reopens when the rod pulls the shutter back up. It doesn't drop down as it can't drop down there is a rivet in the shutter that prevents it from dropping below closed. In your drawing there is a black dot on the lower left of the shutter, that is the rivet stop that prevents the shutter from dropping past closed.

Ok, mine did not have a built-in stop for the shutter.

So yours over-rotates so far, that it goes around the other side and pulls the shutter up again when its getting hotter rather than cooler? Sorry, you may have mentioned this before but it wasn't clear from what I'd read.

 

[Eman85]

Ok, mine did not have a built-in stop for the shutter.

So yours over-rotates so far, that it goes around the other side and pulls the shutter up again when its getting hotter rather than cooler? Sorry, you may have mentioned this before but it wasn't clear from what I'd read.

Secondary Air Probe Opens back up

I have an Encore 2550 tha we’ve used for past 11 years. Cat was replaced this year along with new secondary air probe. I really haven’t had many issues with this stove. Would easily get 9-10 hour burns, sometimes longer. The primary air cable became disconnected and was fixed by professionals...

www.hearth.com

Here's a link to a post where someone else has the same problem and they included pics.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Secondary Air Probe Opens back up

I have an Encore 2550 tha we’ve used for past 11 years. Cat was replaced this year along with new secondary air probe. I really haven’t had many issues with this stove. Would easily get 9-10 hour burns, sometimes longer. The primary air cable became disconnected and was fixed by professionals...

www.hearth.com

Here's a link to a post where someone else has the same problem and they included pics.

Interesting. I never experienced that.

Does yours looks like this? This thermostat looks like it has a bar build on the end to stop the rotation.

 

[Eman85]

no mine is different, here's the VC original part I purchased Amazon product ASIN B083Y5QSST It came direct from HHT
I might have to look into the one you linked

They also list the one I have. https://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/product/VermontCastingsSecondaryAirProbeAssembly
The one you linked does list my model 0028. What's interesting is if you click on my model # in the listing you posted it will take you to a parts diagram that shows the one I purchased as the one for my stove.
I'll call them tomorrow and see what they say.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Mine over rotates but reopens when the rod pulls the shutter back up. It doesn't drop down as it can't drop down there is a rivet in the shutter that prevents it from dropping below closed. In your drawing there is a black dot on the lower left of the shutter, that is the rivet stop that prevents the shutter from dropping past closed.

Mine never reopened on the bottom. It would start to open up slightly on top. Hence the magnet.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Mine over rotates but reopens when the rod pulls the shutter back up. It doesn't drop down as it can't drop down there is a rivet in the shutter that prevents it from dropping below closed. In your drawing there is a black dot on the lower left of the shutter, that is the rivet stop that prevents the shutter from dropping past closed.

I removed this tab on mine because it would hold the shutter ever do slightly open never letting it completely close. This may be why it would start to open on top and provoked me to put the magnets on the bottom.

 

[Eman85]

I removed this tab on mine because it would hold the shutter ever do slightly open never letting it completely close. This may be why it would start to open on top and provoked me to put the magnets on the bottom.

OK I understand now. I couldn't figure how the magnets would work for me since mine stops at the bottom.

 

[Malarky112]

Interesting. I never experienced that.

Does yours looks like this? This thermostat looks like it has a bar build on the end to stop the rotation.

That is the primary air control

Interesting. I never experienced that.

Does yours looks like this? This thermostat looks like it has a bar build on the end to stop the rotation.

That is actually the internal side of the primary air control.
It has a coil as well that closes the primary air door a bit as the stove heats up.
He is talking about the secondary air control, different part.

 

[Eman85]

Good Catch @Malarky112 Thanks