VC Vigilant vs. Englander 13NCL

[DrEvil]

I have the option locally to get a used Vigilant (unknown condition at the moment) or I can pick up a new Englander 13 NCL.

I like the Englander butt he VC is half the price ($150)

Thoughts?

Thanks

Vinny

 

[stoveguy2esw]

both are good units , i guess it comes down to what kinda shape the VC is in

 

[BrotherBart]

I am not the VC expert here, but isn't the Vigilant a coal stove?

 

[TMonter]

The 13NCL is a good stove, I just prefer the 30NCP/NCL if you can find one. They're a bit easier to load than the 13NCL.

 

[DrEvil]

Yeah I researched it here for a bit and found that it was a decent stove when it goes on clearence. I think for my 1500 SF home it will do the trick especially since it is a backup to my furnace. I am still waiting to hear back from the guy with the vigilant. IN the picture the top door was missing and he is trying to locate it. Its somewhat making me uneasy, so I may take the extra $150 hit in the pants for warranty piece of mind....Either way both stoves will burn better than my asian knock off of a Jotul #4.

 

[elkimmeg]

As much as I support VC products I'm telling you get the Englanger. New VS questionable condition? Plus Englander has it customer support member here.

 

[begreen]

Expect to put in at least $150 to get the Vigilant into good working condition. Go with the Englander.

 

[MichaelS]

If it were me, I'd go with the Englander.

 

[pearsall]

I just switched my vintage Jotul 118 for a 13NC tonight. Although I will miss the beautiful green enamel I feel I made the right decision when it comes to safety and efficiency. Thanks to Home Depot (and a warm winter) for cutting the price in 1/2.

Of course I am typing this with the toxic new stove smell and I'm sure there will be a learning curve with this new stove, but I think I made the right decision. . .

 

[elkimmeg]

good to hear you made the swap. We need a complete followup . As you are aware many others may be considering
a simmilar purchase and it would be very helpfull to draw from personal experience

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I just switched my vintage Jotul 118 for a 13NC tonight. Although I will miss the beautiful green enamel I feel I made the right decision when it comes to safety and efficiency. Thanks to Home Depot (and a warm winter) for cutting the price in 1/2.

Of course I am typing this with the toxic new stove smell and I'm sure there will be a learning curve with this new stove, but I think I made the right decision. . .

sorry for the smell, we still havent found a way around that yet , usually that will go away in 2 to 4 hours. . as elk says do follow up, i'd be happy to read any feedback which i can turn over to our R&D dept. for general consumption. by the way , thanks for choosing my product

 

[DrEvil]

I too had the fun adventures of a smog filled house and a nice smell of burning paint today

I made the purchase and the stove is burning right now.

I do however have a concern...

I have been burning the stove since about 2 pm today (its now 1130) and I am having a hard time getting it HOT. I was light at first to bake the paint easy, but I tried to crank it up to shut it down for the night and its not liking that too much.

Here are the details to the best I can describe...

Basement level of a 2 story house.
Basement is unfinished at the moment.
Temp gauge reading 150 at the stack and when moved to the single wall above the stove it sits at 200 (Magnet mount no probe yet)
18" off the stove into an elbow then horizontal with a good pitch to another elbow then straight up the double wall
Burning "seasoned" Maple, Oak, and Birch. I have been adding some cut pallets to get it a bit hotter and it helps.
Stove is currently piped together with Oil furnace (It will be powervented and switched over in the spring)
Chimney has NEVER had wood in it until two weeks ago.


The stove stays lit and going just fine, but the heat level in the same room is not really impressing me. I do not have an OAK (yet) and had no problems with the previous NON air tight stove.

I find that if I keep the door open a crack it will get to about 300 but no higher. Unless of course I throw in a bunch of pallet wood. I am leaning toward the wood that I am burning however, It's rather odd that I cant get too much of a noticeable difference with the damper all the way open. I may be able to snap some pics tomorrow.

 

[Roospike]

mike .......................

Besides expense of doing so why cant stove manufactures bake on the paint like everything else that is painted and sold of kind?

 

[begreen]

I too had the fun adventures of a smog filled house and a nice smell of burning paint today

I made the purchase and the stove is burning right now.

I do however have a concern...

I have been burning the stove since about 2 pm today (its now 1130) and I am having a hard time getting it HOT. I was light at first to bake the paint easy, but I tried to crank it up to shut it down for the night and its not liking that too much.

Here are the details to the best I can describe...

Basement level of a 2 story house.
Basement is unfinished at the moment.
Temp gauge reading 150 at the stack and when moved to the single wall above the stove it sits at 200 (Magnet mount no probe yet)
18" off the stove into an elbow then horizontal with a good pitch to another elbow then straight up the double wall
Burning "seasoned" Maple, Oak, and Birch. I have been adding some cut pallets to get it a bit hotter and it helps.
Stove is currently piped together with Oil furnace (It will be powervented and switched over in the spring)
Chimney has NEVER had wood in it until two weeks ago.


The stove stays lit and going just fine, but the heat level in the same room is not really impressing me. I do not have an OAK (yet) and had no problems with the previous NON air tight stove.

I find that if I keep the door open a crack it will get to about 300 but no higher. Unless of course I throw in a bunch of pallet wood. I am leaning toward the wood that I am burning however, It's rather odd that I cant get too much of a noticeable difference with the damper all the way open. I may be able to snap some pics tomorrow.

Just to be sure I have this right, the stove is sharing the stack with the oil furnace? If yes, that's a bad plan and makes one wonder, what other shortcuts have been taken?

 

[DrEvil]

BeGreen, Thanks for your concern.

I know it is not a generally good idea, and is not legal in most towns/cities however the furnace was just installed last month and I didnt have the extra money to power vent it. (please note it will be powever vented this spring) I do NOT burn my stove when I am not home, and I make sure that I keep a very good eye on it. Also if it makes you any more at ease, I have a fire hydrant in my front yard, am within 1 mile of a fire station for the Fire department that I work for. In addition to that I have a complete array of carbon monoxide detectors as well as smoke detectors.

/end rant

So any insight to why the stove is not burning hot?

 

[begreen]

My first thought is that the additional port on the stack might be messing up the draft big time. It's possible that when the woodstove is going, the flue is sucking a lot of cool air from the furnace port. If so, this is not good for draft or creosote issues because it will be cooling down the stack.

 

[begreen]

Question, what is the interior dimension of the flue pipe in this chimney? - I'm assuming this is a tile lined chimney, right? -

 

[stoveguy2esw]

mike .......................

Besides expense of doing so why cant stove manufactures bake on the paint like everything else that is painted and sold of kind?

actually its more than just paint, paint is a small part of it. the biggest part is cooking the oil out of the steel. steel stoves are made from steel that arrives at the factory pickled in oil, a lot of it is actually cooked out of the steel during the welding processes, but most is still in the steel, only way to get it out is to heat the unit to a temp similar to what it reaches during a fire, and hold that temp for a couple hours, its just not practical to do so for us. we produce a couple hundred units in a given day. the kind of facility needed to cure the units would have to be immense. on the bright side, it only happens once, first good hot fire does the trick.

 

[DrEvil]

6" Metelbestos doublewall

 

[Roospike]

mike .......................

Besides expense of doing so why cant stove manufactures bake on the paint like everything else that is painted and sold of kind?

actually its more than just paint, paint is a small part of it. the biggest part is cooking the oil out of the steel. steel stoves are made from steel that arrives at the factory pickled in oil, a lot of it is actually cooked out of the steel during the welding processes, but most is still in the steel, only way to get it out is to heat the unit to a temp similar to what it reaches during a fire, and hold that temp for a couple hours, its just not practical to do so for us. we produce a couple hundred units in a given day. the kind of facility needed to cure the units would have to be immense. on the bright side, it only happens once, first good hot fire does the trick.

I didnt even think about treated oil vs mill scaled plates and such of hot rolled steel. You are using hot rolled ?

Thats all i wanted to know. ( well not really but the only brain fart that came to me ) ;-)

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I too had the fun adventures of a smog filled house and a nice smell of burning paint today

I made the purchase and the stove is burning right now.

I do however have a concern...

I have been burning the stove since about 2 pm today (its now 1130) and I am having a hard time getting it HOT. I was light at first to bake the paint easy, but I tried to crank it up to shut it down for the night and its not liking that too much.

Here are the details to the best I can describe...

Basement level of a 2 story house.
Basement is unfinished at the moment.
Temp gauge reading 150 at the stack and when moved to the single wall above the stove it sits at 200 (Magnet mount no probe yet)
18" off the stove into an elbow then horizontal with a good pitch to another elbow then straight up the double wall
Burning "seasoned" Maple, Oak, and Birch. I have been adding some cut pallets to get it a bit hotter and it helps.
Stove is currently piped together with Oil furnace (It will be powervented and switched over in the spring)
Chimney has NEVER had wood in it until two weeks ago.


The stove stays lit and going just fine, but the heat level in the same room is not really impressing me. I do not have an OAK (yet) and had no problems with the previous NON air tight stove.

I find that if I keep the door open a crack it will get to about 300 but no higher. Unless of course I throw in a bunch of pallet wood. I am leaning toward the wood that I am burning however, It's rather odd that I cant get too much of a noticeable difference with the damper all the way open. I may be able to snap some pics tomorrow.

whats the fire look like? active? are you getting secondaries lighting off in the top of the firebox?, hard to say yet whats happening with the flue setup you have, i have to echo begreens statement , you need to address that its not just a code issue but is a safety issue as well due to conflicting draft as well as differing residues from the different fuels, oil based residues(hydrocarbons) are different from the residues that are produced by wood burning , these hydrocarbons may have a lower flashpoint than wood residues have.

 

[DrEvil]

Fire is active coals are nice and deep, Secodarys are rolling pretty good att he moment. I just checked and I hit 400*

What temp should I turn it down for the night? I always hit 500* on the VC that I grew up using before turning it down for the night. That was a cat stove though.

The strange thing is It was not uncommon for my other stove to hit 4-500* no problem but that stove would never make it through the night due to the poor door design.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

probably 450-500, make sure you seat the wood splits tightly together when you bank the unit up will make for a longer burn.

as for roo's question i believe its hot roll but i would nt swear by it , mettallurgy side of the house isnt my strong point

 

[elkimmeg]

Let ne see If I got this right the justification for installing the stove, is a fire hydrant in front of the home and fire station a mile away and the guy is a fireman but never read NFPA or the listing manual?

Lsts use this example of code issues
installed a wood burning appliance in the same flue Big Big No No
When changing fuel use, the flue must be cleaned and inspected. No mention ot whether this occured its age or condition either

Then he has it in close proximity of another fuel burning applaince what about both vying for combustion air?
Speaking of which, are the combustion air requirements met?

I know the manual was not read, because it would be real hard to miss the first page statement about code compliance and needing a permit

However he has some carbon monoxide detectors.

I will not advise of such installations as it may invite others to follow this blantant scoff of codes and personal safety. Al I can say I hope its not in my town or its comming out tomorrow

 

[begreen]

I have to agree Elk. This seems a case of blatantly ignoring the basics and then wondering why the stove isn't functioning correctly. RTM.