Venting options, revisited

[caseyclan]

Greetings,
I appreciate the feedback from my other posting, but wanted more specific details. There appears to be a great deal of experience from many senior members that I can learn from, so I want take advantage of that experience. Many of you have opposed straight venting a stove without any vertical rise, and have posted links to show why. I have seen the black soot all over the siding, and the "melted" areas as well - not for me! I spoke with Quad today, and they confirmed that vertical rise is best - and recommended. He even said that I could shorten it if needed, due to my situation. I do need some clarification. In the manual, it states:

2. Distance from doors and opening windows, or gravity or
ventilation air inlets into building:
a. Not less than 48 inches (1219mm) below;
b. Not less than 48 inches (1219mm) horizontally from;
c. Not less than 12 inches (05mm) above.

I have a walk out basement with many windows. If I place my stove on the exterior wall that has 2 windows, it will go in the center of the wall, with the vent running out the back through the wall, with a tee and up in between the 2 windows. I can run the vertical pipe 36 inches in height, which would maintain the 48 inches of recommended distance between the end cap and the windows on the above floor. The end cap will be approximately 49 inches above the actual opening area of the windows that border the vent pipe on each side. Here's my dilemma: the manual states "not less than 48 inches horizontally from". What exactly does this mean? That the end cap must be 48 inches away from the opening of the window horizontal to it? What if the top part of my window doesn't open, but the bottom does, and its 48 inches away from the end cap - would that suffice? In reality, the pipe will be 12 inches from the border of both windows (in the center of both), but the end cap will be 49 inches away (in height) from the window opening. Thoughts?

 

[DiggerJim]

I have a walk out basement with many windows. If I place my stove on the exterior wall that has 2 windows, it will go in the center of the wall, with the vent running out the back through the wall, with a tee and up in between the 2 windows. I can run the vertical pipe 36 inches in height, which would maintain the 48 inches of recommended distance between the end cap and the windows on the above floor. The end cap will be approximately 49 inches above the actual opening area of the windows that border the vent pipe on each side. Here's my dilemma: the manual states "not less than 48 inches horizontally from". What exactly does this mean? That the end cap must be 48 inches away from the opening of the window horizontal to it? What if the top part of my window doesn't open, but the bottom does, and its 48 inches away from the end cap - would that suffice? In reality, the pipe will be 12 inches from the border of both windows (in the center of both), but the end cap will be 49 inches away (in height) from the window opening. Thoughts?

Horizontally means the end of the vent (what you're calling the end cap) needs to be 4 feet from the nearest opening window or door to the right or left. Your installation sounds ok (the 12" pipe to window distance isn't an issue).

 

[caseyclan]

DiggerJim,
So, when you say "nearest opening window?, you mean the actual part of the window that opens and allows an influx of air, correct? I noticed the manual also states that permanently closed windows should be at least 12 inches away from the termination end - I assume this is to prevent heat damage?

 

[DiggerJim]

DiggerJim,
So, when you say "nearest opening window?, you mean the actual part of the window that opens and allows an influx of air, correct?

That's the rub If your inspector is reasonable, that's the interpretation that should prevail. However, if he wants to be a pain, he might interpret that to mean the whole window as a unit and ding you on it. Most often they're reasonable so it's worth a quick chat before you punch a hole in the wall. I've found that most like it when people come and seek their expertise before doing a project.

 

[caseyclan]

DiggerJim,
Who is the inspector? Is one required to have an inspector approve the install?

 

[DiggerJim]

DiggerJim,
Who is the inspector? Is one required to have an inspector approve the install?

The building inspector. Most communities require a permit and an inspection for stove installs.

 

[MainePellethead]

No inspection was required where I live....

 

[DiggerJim]

No inspection was required where I live....

No permit, no nothing? I ought to move to Maine

CT inspects everything. Lots of states do the same. The cynic in me suspects it's because it's a good revenue source.

 

[2c3d]

diggerJim is giving you the correct information on permits and inspections.....most communities require permits for installs, followed by township inspection....

two reasons, first being that your stove is not a fire hazard....second is that the installation is done correctly, which will give you peace of mind....

in addition to the above mentioned, our insurance company stated that since we obtained the necessary permit and passed inspection they were satisfied....no additional charges to our policy...

cost of permit and inspection $40.00....small price to pay, heaven forbid if you need to make a claim....without documation you could be left out in the cold....

 

[2c3d]

hey; MainPelletHead,

after reading your post I would suggest that you make sure your stove is covered under your homeowners policy.....I personally always cover my a$$....

 

[caseyclan]

Interesting. I will have to check into this. thanks

 

[2c3d]

hey;caseyclan,

my pleasure.....knowledge is power....some are penny wise....pound foolish....insurance companies will cut you off at the knees if (they) have a leg to stand on

 

[caseyclan]

So, so true. By the way, instead of directly venting to the outside, then having a vertical rise, have you ever heard of someone having the vertical rise first, then venting to the outside? I have seen old pictures of this, more so with a brick chimney instead of a regular wall. Is there any advantage to this?

 

[DiggerJim]

So, so true. By the way, instead of directly venting to the outside, then having a vertical rise, have you ever heard of someone having the vertical rise first, then venting to the outside? I have seen old pictures of this, more so with a brick chimney instead of a regular wall. Is there any advantage to this?

Lots of folks do that. It does help recapture some of the heat that would otherwise escape out the vent as the inside vertical pipe section will radiate a bit to the room it's in. It isn't as much as with a wood stove because of the double-wall construction of the pipe, but it is some.

 

[caseyclan]

So, so true. By the way, instead of directly venting to the outside, then having a vertical rise, have you ever heard of someone having the vertical rise first, then venting to the outside? I have seen old pictures of this, more so with a brick chimney instead of a regular wall. Is there any advantage to this?

Lots of folks do that. It does help recapture some of the heat that would otherwise escape out the vent as the inside vertical pipe section will radiate a bit to the room it's in. It isn't as much as with a wood stove because of the double-wall construction of the pipe, but it is some.

Which is considered safer, with regards to reduction of CO?

 

[DiggerJim]

So, so true. By the way, instead of directly venting to the outside, then having a vertical rise, have you ever heard of someone having the vertical rise first, then venting to the outside? I have seen old pictures of this, more so with a brick chimney instead of a regular wall. Is there any advantage to this?

Lots of folks do that. It does help recapture some of the heat that would otherwise escape out the vent as the inside vertical pipe section will radiate a bit to the room it's in. It isn't as much as with a wood stove because of the double-wall construction of the pipe, but it is some.

Which is considered safer, with regards to reduction of CO?

Technically speaking, the less pipe you have in the house, the less opportunity there is for a leak in that pipe and thus less chance of CO. However, in reality, a straight shot of pipe up the interior isn't likely to get a leak - most leaks come from the joints (very rarely...really rarely, over long periods of time the pipe might corrode enough and you might not pay attention to the smoke smell and you might get a leak with CO resulting...lots of mights). If you check out the photos here of people's installations you'll see a lot with the vertical rise in the house. Nothing to worry about - should worry more about the furnace or leaking from your garage IMHO neither of which most people give even a 2nd thought.

 

[2c3d]

hey caseyclan;

check out post by (teddy 1971)....title- pellet stove finally installed today (pictures attached)....this is the exact same corner installation and venting we completed in 04 with our quad castile...

opted for direct vent for aesthetics....didn't want to see vent pipe travel from floor to ceiling....vent pipe terminates 18" outside to a horizontal open ended (T) that allows flyash and residuals to escape left to right.....not up and down....

LUHRS ACE HARDWARE MILFORD PA is the only dealer, in our area that sell, install and service quadrafire stoves....our stove install and venting passed inspection, our insurance co. was satisfied....after 4 yrs. burning we have never had any staining or soot to the exterior (log siding)....since (teddy 1971's) is identical to mine 4 yrs. prior LUHRS must be doing it right....

 

[imacman]

...vent pipe terminates 18" outside to a horizontal open ended (T) that allows flyash and residuals to escape left to right.....not up and down....

How about some pics of the installation?

 

[2c3d]

hey, macman;

I'm off tomorrow to purchase digital camera and accessories to download pic's of our install....stay tuned...

 

[imacman]

hey, macman;

I'm off tomorrow to purchase digital camera and accessories to download pic's of our install....stay tuned...

cool! :coolsmile:

 

[caseyclan]

hey caseyclan;

check out post by (teddy 1971)....title- pellet stove finally installed today (pictures attached)....this is the exact same corner installation and venting we completed in 04 with our quad castile...

opted for direct vent for aesthetics....didn't want to see vent pipe travel from floor to ceiling....vent pipe terminates 18" outside to a horizontal open ended (T) that allows flyash and residuals to escape left to right.....not up and down....

LUHRS ACE HARDWARE MILFORD PA is the only dealer, in our area that sell, install and service quadrafire stoves....our stove install and venting passed inspection, our insurance co. was satisfied....after 4 yrs. burning we have never had any staining or soot to the exterior (log siding)....since (teddy 1971's) is identical to mine 4 yrs. prior LUHRS must be doing it right....

Based on my housing set up, horizontal venting seems the only realistic option for me. its in the basement, so can not vent through roof. A short rise will not go above the roof line, so it may look odd, and a full run above the roof line would look like a major eye sore and the "accountant" will not sign off on it. After careful measurement, even if I had the hortizontal vent pipe come away from the house 18 inches (like you), I would still be greater than 24 inches away from my deck, which falls into the acceptable category for Quad. I spoke with another dealer yesterday (non-Quad dealer, but sells Lopi) to get an "objective" view of a potential install, and he seemed to support what the Quad dealer stated. He even said that one could get a termination cap that forces the exhaust downward (with rain cap in place) and has a heat deflector attached. I really like that option, as It offers more protection. Therefore, horizontal direct venting looks like a good option to consider. Looking forward to those pics! Is your vent near any windows? I will have one that is approximately 24 to 26 inches horizontally, but will NOT be opened during the winter time, so I assume should be acceptable.

 

[DiggerJim]

Is your vent near any windows? I will have one that is approximately 24 to 26 inches horizontally, but will NOT be opened during the winter time, so I assume should be acceptable.

You cannot terminate the vent pipe that close to an opening window - whether it is opened or not, the code says no because you might crack it open and draw in smoke. The window has to be non-opening (some inspectors will allow an operable window to be rendered inoperable by screwing it shut, but promising not to open it in the winter isn't going to get the permit sign-off).

(The spec is not less than 4' below, 4' horizontally, 1' above a gravity air inlet - door, window, etc.)

 

[2c3d]

here's the first three pic's more to follow...

 

[2c3d]

here's the rest..

 

[2c3d]

caseyclan and macman;

those are the pic's of stove and install....vent pipe goes out the back of the house which faces east....as you can see no staining on the exterior siding....sorry for the last (2) pic's....deflector shield at end is vexed in....hope you can tell from the close up....flyash vents left and right....end of vent pipe to side window is about 4-1/2 feet.....old crock in photo holds 60 lbs. pellets...we use an old grain scoop to add fuel...

in the (show me state) I guess they call the wife accounts...in the (garden state) it's war dept....

hope this helps, if you need additional info feel free to ask...