Vermont Castings Defiant Encore cat vs Jotul 12 CB

[joebass]

HI All!

I have had an exciting journey into heating with wood, and with the help of all the amazing advice from this forum, am about to enter my 5th year heating an old 2 story farmhouse primarily with wood. The walls and windows are well insulated, but the floor and ceilings are not the tightest. I also have a 2 zone heat pump. The house is about 2300 sq feet, but I close roughly half of that off when I do not have guests. My chimney is tall and the stove tends to want to run hot on me, but I have learned to regulate that with experience.

It all started in 2011 when I bought a used VC Defiant Encore cat stove as a newbie. Boy, did I get an education in wood stoves, fire safety and stove cement. It all worked out fine in the end, and I have since done a complete rebuild including a new fireback, refractory assembly, cat, damper plate etc etc.

Here's my question.... I LOVE this stove when it's working properly. The first season after rebuild (4 years ago) it was amazing... I was running a brand new Condar steelcat and was able to get an absurd amount of heat with very little fuel and almost no smoke. However, after that first season, the stove has always been finicky and is increasingly problematic. I have replaced the cat (back to ceramic), and the gaskets, but the stove doesn't always go into cat burn as it should. I am burning nice dry mostly oak wood, draft is good etc etc. The cat clogs often, and the cover is dry and fragile.... I've had to replace it twice. There are some other issues with the stove... like a wrung off bolt that secures the cat access panel in the rear of the stove (which now has a steel drill bit broken off and stuck in it thanks to our local VC dealer's repair guy), making cat checking and cleaning difficult.

There is a used Jotul 12 CB for sale at a reasonable price in my area. I haven't been to see it yet, but I believe that it is the non cat version. Here are my questions: How does this stove compare to my VC encore catalytic? Should I give up on cat stoves entirely and try the Jotul non-cat stove? Have any of you made this shift and seen a big difference? Given that the VC has lots of wear and tear, was once overfired (just before the complete rebuild) and may have some minor warping, and the refractory box already seems dry, hard and fragile, is it worth it to do another tedious teardown/rebuild on the VC? Or is that VC, especially in it's old and abused state, just a problematic stove generally and I should be saving my pennies to get a newer more reliable catalytic stove? If so what do y'all recommend?

Thanks so much for your thoughts and advice!
-joe

 

[webby3650]

The encore is a very problematic stove, as you are finding out. I Personally won't sink anymore money into it. Don't let these old designs scare you away from a cat stove either, all cat stoves are not created equal! If you are buying new I'd look into Blaze King stoves. Woodstock also makes great cat stoves.

I believe the Jotul #12 would be a cat stove. They called it a F-600 firelight once it switched to non-cat. The 12's were also somewhat problematic, not nearly as parts heavy as a VC though. If the price was right I'd give it a try. What are they wanting for it? Do you know the condition of the combustion box and catalyst?

 

[joebass]

Thanks Webby!

I believe that the stove for sale nearby is the transitional model... the Jotul 12 CB (the CB stands for cleanburn, their non cat reburn system). I'm curious if any of you hearth readers out there have much experience with this or similar stoves and can let me know what to check for when I go to look at the stove and how it will compare to my encore in terms of wood consumption vs heat. Webby, I'm also curious when you mention that the Jotul 12s were somewhat problematic.... can you give me some specific problems that you are aware of?


best,

-joe

The encore is a very problematic stove, as you are finding out. I Personally won't sink anymore money into it. Don't let these old designs scare you away from a cat stove either, all cat stoves are not created equal! If you are buying new I'd look into Blaze King stoves. Woodstock also makes great cat stoves.

I believe the Jotul #12 would be a cat stove. They called it a F-600 firelight once it switched to non-cat. The 12's were also somewhat problematic, not nearly as parts heavy as a VC though. If the price was right I'd give it a try. What are they wanting for it? Do you know the condition of the combustion box and catalyst?

 

[webby3650]

Thanks Webby!

I believe that the stove for sale nearby is the transitional model... the Jotul 12 CB (the CB stands for cleanburn, their non cat reburn system). I'm curious if any of you hearth readers out there have much experience with this or similar stoves and can let me know what to check for when I go to look at the stove and how it will compare to my encore in terms of wood consumption vs heat. Webby, I'm also curious when you mention that the Jotul 12s were somewhat problematic.... can you give me some specific problems that you are aware of?


best,

-joe

To best of my knowledge this stove will be a cat stove. If it's a top loader it's a cat, if has a side door then it's a non-cat.

By problematic I mean it shares some of the same features as the encore. Cat is located in the back with a combustion box and a cast iron cover. Although these parts hold up better than a VC, it can be very expensive to work on. The top lid is operated by a foot lever, the linkage can become sloppy and not work so well over time. Some parts are becoming obsolete on this as well. May be available after market though, not sure.

 

[joebass]

Hello!
Owner says it has side and front loading, so I think that confirms it as the not cat model. Does anyone know if there are any substantial differences between this and the current firelight 600 stoves? How would I check the "tubes" in the clean burn assembly before buying the stove? Anything else about these I should consider or look at?

Thanks!

-j

QUOTE="webby3650, post: 2092601, member: 6398"]To best of my knowledge this stove will be a cat stove. If it's a top loader it's a cat, if has a side door then it's a non-cat.

By problematic I mean it shares some of the same features as the encore. Cat is located in the back with a combustion box and a cast iron cover. Although these parts hold up better than a VC, it can be very expensive to work on. The top lid is operated by a foot lever, the linkage can become sloppy and not work so well over time. Some parts are becoming obsolete on this as well. May be available after market though, not sure.[/QUOTE]

 

[webby3650]

That would be a F-600 CB
It would be the same as a current model. There is no real cleaning or maintaince to the combustion system on a non-cat. Just a good brushing off assuming there aren't burned out.
Check for cracks on the exterior and interior, especially on the floor around the ash grate.

 

[begreen]

Check for cracks on the exterior and interior, especially on the floor around the ash grate.

This is what you are looking for. If no cracks and the stove hasn't been overfired, take it home with a smile.

 

[webby3650]

Those pics look like an Olso, but the same principal applies.

 

[begreen]

Good eye! They are Oslo cracked base shots.

 

[joebass]

Thanks everyone!

I think I'll go take a look at the stove later this week... Can anyone comment on how this stove will generally compare to my encore?
Real world burn times with well seasoned oak? I keep hearing amazing things about the Blaze Kings but my application is a rear vent... is it still the case that there are no blaze kings available with rear vent options? other recommendations for a rear vent super efficient long burning stove?

 

[edyit]

woodstock makes nice stoves that are rear vent as well

 

[joebass]

So after lots of reading, I'm torn. It seems like the burn times on the Jotul are definitely going to be less than cat stoves. I'm tempted to try it anyway at that price, but lugging 500 lbs stoves around isn't really convenient. I'm also having second thoughts about fixing the VC... perhaps I should just consider regasketing and reworking the VC one more time. The main problem I've been having is that the cat clogs... I clean it, it works perfectly for about 3 days and then it gets clogged again. Any advice on what could be causing this? I've had the problem to a greater or lesser extent starting year 2 after a complete rebuild. (It ran perfect, if a touch hot, for that first year.) I plan to get in there and check all gaskets and joints, but does anyone know if there is a specific trouble spot that would cause cat clogging?



best,

-j