Water in basement floor after French drain install

[hydes2004]

Hello,


I recently had a French drain installed on the interior perimeter walls of my basement, there is a sump pump in the far corner with the 3” pvc piped to it. Prior to the install I’ve only had water in my basement a hand full of times. Right now with the snow melting and warmer weather the water table is quite high. Last night I went into the basement and noticed that there is dampness and some very small puddling of water where the new concrete meets the old concrete. The sump pump has been running a fair amount and since the system is only a month old the pipes and wrapping holes are not clogged. I’m wondering how to approach this issue with the contractor. The entire reasoning behind installing this system was to prevent any type of water intrusion since we are going to be finish the basement level.


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[Seasoned Oak]

You cant prevent intrusion with an INTERIOR system. This type of setup is used when it almost impossible to do the OUTSIDE of the wall usually on older homes. Now your just dealing with all the water that gets in because you don't have an outside drainage system. If you really want a DRY basement you have to do this from the OUTSIDE of the foundation wall. If that's not possible you already have the most common type of inside system, with all its flaws.

 

[fbelec]

if it's a contractor like boston basement's they want to hear from you. they have a lot of word of mouth advertising. or not sure it's the same but busy dog

 

[peakbagger]

Yes definitely contact the contractor. I do agree the interior solutions are inferior to an exterior solution but you cant cheat physics. The basement walls are warmer than the outside ground so when the ground around the house is frozen, the ground right up against the wall is not as heat from the basement leaks out. Water running on top of the frozen ground outside will find its way to the lowest point which is the basement floor. If the soils around the house is graded properly sloped away from the foundation and the basement walls insulated, melt water will usually find its way around the house without running down the walls but if you are on slope its toug.

The new drainage just intercepts it and runs it to the sump. In theory exterior drainage attempts to capture the water below the basement floor and preferable redirects it around the house to a lower point or to sump. Sounds to me like you need a bigger sump pump unless the existing one is clogged. I had house in midwest years ago and the land was almost flat with no where for the water to drain to in the spring. It has exterior drainage but during the spring melt, the pump was running close to constantly.

 

[hydes2004]

Yes definitely contact the contractor. I do agree the interior solutions are inferior to an exterior solution but you cant cheat physics. The basement walls are warmer than the outside ground so when the ground around the house is frozen, the ground right up against the wall is not as heat from the basement leaks out. Water running on top of the frozen ground outside will find its way to the lowest point which is the basement floor. If the soils around the house is graded properly sloped away from the foundation and the basement walls insulated, melt water will usually find its way around the house without running down the walls but if you are on slope its toug.

The new drainage just intercepts it and runs it to the sump. In theory exterior drainage attempts to capture the water below the basement floor and preferable redirects it around the house to a lower

point or to sump. Sounds to me like you need a bigger sump pump unless the existing one is clogged. I had house in midwest years ago and the land was almost flat with no where for the water to drain to in the spring. It has exterior drainage but during the spring melt, the pump was running close to constantly.

Thanks. The sump pump is working just fine, there is no issue there. I’m going to give him a call today. I just don’t understand why water would be penetrating the surface if the pipe is in there.....

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[hydes2004]

So that’s a picture of the drain prior to cement and the completed sump. This is the water issue I am having

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[peakbagger]

Tough to figure out what the pictures are of and what system was installed. The normal spring issue is water from the outside is running down the outside wall to the footing. If there is perimeter drain its usually located below the footing. The water running down the wall will pool on top of the footing and then run in through the wall. Normally with the systems I have seen is they install a gutter around the interior walls of the basement and then drill holes out through the wall horizontally out through the wall close down to the floor. Any water pressure on the outside will be relieved as it will flow through the newly drilled holes. There is a plastic piece that sticks up from the gutter and clips to the wall to cover the holes.

There are numerous different systems on the market and it comes down to what system did the contractor install, did he know what he was doing and what sort of guarantee did he make?.

 

[hydes2004]

There is a 3” pvc pipe with holes in it pipes to the sump and the channel piece up against wall.

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[Husky]

The sump bulb could be set to high and is not kicking on soon enough allowing the water to rise to high before being pumped out of the basement.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Possibly the drain pipes are not sloped uniformly. If you have a low spot water will collect there. hopefully its something else cuz if that's the case the whole thing would have to be ripped up to fix it. Its going to be tough to finish that basement with all that moisture behind and under whatever your putting in. For flooring your going to have to go with the 2x2 raised subfloor panels with the plastic feet for a dry floor. Everything that is wet now will have to end up behind the walls you put up. Definitely do as much as you can to minimize it before you close it up.

 

[hydes2004]

The sump bulb could be set to high and is not kicking on soon enough allowing the water to rise to high before being pumped out of the basement.

The sump pit water level is set to 12” and it never reaches the piping


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[hydes2004]

Possibly the drain pipes are not sloped uniformly. If you have a low spot water will collect there. hopefully its something else cuz if that's the case the whole thing would have to be ripped up to fix it. Its going to be tough to finish that basement with all that moisture behind and under whatever your putting in. For flooring your going to have to go with the 2x2 raised subfloor panels with the plastic feet for a dry floor. Everything that is wet now will have to behind the walls you put up. Definitely do as much as you can to minimize it before you close it up.

That’s my guess. It’s only wet on some spots. I plan on putting delta fl for a vapor barrier on the floor and also on the walls


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[sportbikerider78]

There are A LOT of variables and weather is a pain to predict. You can be a-ok one year and have devastation the next. Are you in a rush? Might make sense to observe what is happening for a few years to get some data.

 

[blades]

chased that kind of thing for a few years at a home i owned. finally ended up having to go down the out side and install new perimeter piping and gravel as well as resealing the walls on the outside.This one was a rather extreme problem compound by an old septic system that had not been properly closed off when the home was switched to municipal sewer. Septic system was working in reverse.

 

[hydes2004]

So I talked to the contractor. He is coming by Friday to take a look. He is going to cute back the new concrete and take a look at the drain. Almost all of the new concrete is now wet

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[semipro]

Until that new concrete around the pipe fully cures (it doesn't dry BTW) I'd expect to see moisture there when water levels are high. As the concrete cures it will become more watertight. I suspect that water is just wicking up through the new concrete and won't be an issue in the future. Puddles, on the other hand, would concern me.
BTW, there are some pretty nice waterproof laminate floors out there now. One is SmartCore at Lowes. HD also has it brand. If you install a good water barrier with flooring above you'll probably be fine. About a year ago I installed a floating SmartCore floor over a high compressive strength XPS over bare concrete with great results. We had no water problems though.

Edit: your photos don't show but I'm guessing they did install the drain pipe inside gravel and a filter fabric, right?

Edit2: concrete takes a while to cure and is strongest if it remains wet while curing. It will reach about 95% of its strength within about 30 days.

 

[hydes2004]

Until that new concrete around the pipe fully cures (it doesn't dry BTW) I'd expect to see moisture there when water levels are high. As the concrete cures it will become more watertight. I suspect that water is just wicking up through the new concrete and won't be an issue in the future. Puddles, on the other hand, would concern me.
BTW, there are some pretty nice waterproof laminate floors out there now. One is SmartCore at Lowes. HD also has it brand. If you install a good water barrier with flooring above you'll probably be fine. About a year ago I installed a floating SmartCore floor over a high compressive strength XPS over bare concrete with great results. We had no water problems though.

Thanks for the info. I have some delta fl membrane I was going to lay down over some landscape fabric so it does not squeak. On top of that I think we are going with the faux wood style floors from Lowe’s. They have a dimpled rubber membrane on the bottom for airflow. How long does that concrete usually take to cure? I do not currently have heat down there and the basement is about 45 degrees. Concrete is about a month old


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[semipro]

See my edits above . If you're talking about SmartCore flooring we love the stuff. We have 4 dogs, one at 100 lb. and the stuff is tough.

Even after curing, concrete is not waterproof despite what many think. What you're looking at is wicking force versus gravitational forces. The wickiing force will decrease as the concrete cures. The gravitational force won't change. The latter will eventually dominate.

Edit: make sure you have backup on that sump pump. You can go batter or there is an interesting water powered system (assuming you're on a public water supply).

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I would not put anything on that floor without first laying down the raised plywood subfloor panels with the plastic feet grid underneath. ITs called DRIcore at lowes. HD has something similar. It raises your subfloor about 3/4 inches above the concrete. Its roughly about $1.50 Sq ft. Otherwise you may get water on top your finished floor.I just installed some in a basement with a waterproof vinyl plank on top. Any type of wood product will attract mold in damp conditions.If that happens you will tearing it back out. Unless you've lived in the house 10 to 15 years you have not seen the worst case scenario as far as water table levels. I would also consider running a dehumidifier to keep the humidity under 60 %

 

[zrock]

Thanks for the info. I have some delta fl membrane I was going to lay down over some landscape fabric so it does not squeak. On top of that I think we are going with the faux wood style floors from Lowe’s. They have a dimpled rubber membrane on the bottom for airflow. How long does that concrete usually take to cure? I do not currently have heat down there and the basement is about 45 degrees. Concrete is about a month old


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Takes no less than 30+ days for concrete to fully cure depending on humidity and heat.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Thanks for the info. I have some delta fl membrane I was going to lay down over some landscape fabric so it does not squeak. On top of that I think we are going with the faux wood style floors from Lowe’s. They have a dimpled rubber membrane on the bottom for airflow. How long does that concrete usually take to cure? I do not currently have heat down there and the basement is about 45 degrees. Concrete is about a month old


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You need a vapor barrier, regardless of wether this new drainage system works or not. Dimpled tiles with cracks between the flooring is not a vapor barrier.
If you use completely synthetic (all rubber/vinyl) flooring you might be ok.

 

[hydes2004]

You need a vapor barrier, regardless of wether this new drainage system works or not. Dimpled tiles with cracks between the flooring is not a vapor barrier.
If you use completely synthetic (all rubber/vinyl) flooring you might be ok.

I am doing a vapor barrier.


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[gzecc]

Hello,


I recently had a French drain installed on the interior perimeter walls of my basement, there is a sump pump in the far corner with the 3” pvc piped to it. Prior to the install I’ve only had water in my basement a hand full of times. Right now with the snow melting and warmer weather the water table is quite high. Last night I went into the basement and noticed that there is dampness and some very small puddling of water where the new concrete meets the old concrete. The sump pump has been running a fair amount and since the system is only a month old the pipes and wrapping holes are not clogged. I’m wondering how to approach this issue with the contractor. The entire reasoning behind installing this system was to prevent any type of water intrusion since we are going to be finish the basement level.


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Not sure if there is a clean out designed into the system. I would ask for one, if there is not.

 

[hydes2004]

Not sure if there is a clean out designed into the system. I would ask for one, if there is not.

There is 2


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[hydes2004]

So the contractor just called. He jackhammered up some spots in the basement. He said when he purchased and laid the stone down it was wet and frozen. There is a vapor barrier on top of the pipe and then stone on top of that and then the final cement. He said the stone is slowly thawing our causing the moisture and because there is a vapor barrier under it, it has no where to go except for up. He said give it a few weeks and the problem should remedy itself once the stone is thawed out completely. He also said he has never had this type of issue before however never put down wet frozen stone


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