Water inside a Jotul Rockland 550

[jotul rock550]

Rockland 550 installed January 2012 - SS liner 13 feet in exterior chimney with a 4 foot double wall extension to achieve clearance over main part of the house. Summer of 2012 I noticed water inside the firebox after a hard rain. Talked to installer and they told me that the cap they supplied is typical and they have not had complaints about water getting past. They also said keep an eye on it and dry out the firebox after it happens in the future.
Fast forward - after the burning season last winter I installed a plastic bag over the double wall extension and slipped the cap back over the top and tightened it back in place to make it water tight. Seemed to be working well until this week when we had a strong thunderstorm and the fire box was filled with 1/4 inch of water.

Where is this water coming from??

Yesterday, I went on the rood and sealed the joint between the extension and the plate covering the the old chimney opening. I also pulled the surround and there is no evidence of water on top of the stove?

thoughts??

 

[Nick Mystic]

If the water isn't coming from the top of the flue liner (since it is covered - did you check after the recent rain to make sure the plastic hadn't ripped, etc.?) and it isn't coming down the chimney (no water on top of insert) then perhaps it is from condensation inside the flue liner. Condensation occurs when warm moist air comes into contact with with something that is cooler than the ambient temperature. A thunderstorm could easily cool your SS liner and if you had warmer moist air entering the stove and flue from the inside of your house it is conceivable that it could produce enough moisture to account for the water inside your stove.

 

[jotul rock550]

I did check the plastic cover and it is still intact - that was my first thought.

I agree the storm could cause condensation but there was 1/4 inch of water in there - seems like a lot for condensation coming from inside the house.

 

[Nick Mystic]

Yes, it is astonishing to get that much water inside your stove from condensation. However, let me relate a situation I experienced with my gas hot water heater, which is located in my two car garage. If you are unfamiliar with how a gas hot water heats I'll just say it has an exhaust gas hole on the top of the tank that is about three inches in diameter. About two inches above this opening it a flared flange like an upside down funnel that connects to a three inch diameter flue pipe that exits through the garage wall and then goes about 20' up the side of the garage above the roof where the end is covered with a rain cap. I have a shelving unit sitting under this pipe and noticed one day that a box on the top shelf was all wet. I replaced the box with a bucket and began monitoring things. At first I assumed rain water was somehow getting into this flue pipe and leaking out of a joint at a 90 degree elbow right above this bucket. I confirmed water dripping from this joint. I had to empty this bucket every week or so as it would get a gallon or two of water in it, even when it wasn't raining!

Fast forward to a point in time when the tank failed and I had to replace it. The plumber who did my installation told me my flue pipe wasn't correctly installed and to fix the problem I would need to spend a few hundred additional dollars for a fan vented flue pipe. There wasn't a problem with carbon monoxide, rather I was getting condensation inside the flue pipe that was running back down the inside and this would eventually rust out the top of my tank. I told him I'd monitor it for a time before deciding what to do. Sure enough I was getting water dripping from the joint in the pipe every time the tank fired up. Fortunately, the water was leaking from this joint and not making it back to the top of the tank where it would cause damage. I remedied the problem by drilling a small weep hole outside the garage at the bottom of this horizontal pipe so the condensation could harmlessly drip outside onto the ground. This works great and I no longer have any water dripping inside the garage.

It was this experience that brings me to wonder if condensation might also be your problem. In my case, the condensation was caused by warm moist air from the garage and exhaust gas condensing inside the cooler vent pipe. In your case, if this is the cause of your water, you would have warm moist air from your house condensing on the cooler SS liner walls when weather conditions cause the pipe to become cooler than the air inside the liner.

 

[webby3650]

Yes, it is astonishing to get that much water inside your stove from condensation. However, let me relate a situation I experienced with my gas hot water heater, which is located in my two car garage. If you are unfamiliar with how a gas hot water heats I'll just say it has an exhaust gas hole on the top of the tank that is about three inches in diameter. About two inches above this opening it a flared flange like an upside down funnel that connects to a three inch diameter flue pipe that exits through the garage wall and then goes about 20' up the side of the garage above the roof where the end is covered with a rain cap. I have a shelving unit sitting under this pipe and noticed one day that a box on the top shelf was all wet. I replaced the box with a bucket and began monitoring things. At first I assumed rain water was somehow getting into this flue pipe and leaking out of a joint at a 90 degree elbow right above this bucket. I confirmed water dripping from this joint. I had to empty this bucket every week or so as it would get a gallon or two of water in it, even when it wasn't raining!

Fast forward to a point in time when the tank failed and I had to replace it. The plumber who did my installation told me my flue pipe wasn't correctly installed and to fix the problem I would need to spend a few hundred additional dollars for a fan vented flue pipe. There wasn't a problem with carbon monoxide, rather I was getting condensation inside the flue pipe that was running back down the inside and this would eventually rust out the top of my tank. I told him I'd monitor it for a time before deciding what to do. Sure enough I was getting water dripping from the joint in the pipe every time the tank fired up. Fortunately, the water was leaking from this joint and not making it back to the top of the tank where it would cause damage. I remedied the problem by drilling a small weep hole outside the garage at the bottom of this horizontal pipe so the condensation could harmlessly drip outside onto the ground. This works great and I no longer have any water dripping inside the garage.

It was this experience that brings me to wonder if condensation might also be your problem. In my case, the condensation was caused by warm moist air from the garage and exhaust gas condensing inside the cooler vent pipe. In your case, if this is the cause of your water, you would have warm moist air from your house condensing on the cooler SS liner walls when weather conditions cause the pipe to become cooler than the air inside the liner.

To start, there is a tremendous amount of water vapor created when gas is burned. So,it's hard to compare it to a flue that is sitting idle. Your old heater sounds like it was a B-vent with a draft hood and natural draft. The new water heater was a High eff. power vent unit, Right? So, it wasn't compatible with old B-vent and had to be changed anyway. If the new flue is PVC it should be glued to prevent condensation and C02 from escaping.

I really doubt there would be a puddle created from condensation, rain is getting in somewhere. Any chance it's dura-vent class-A up there? We have had a rash of minor leaks lately, water is making it into the seam and making it's way into the insulation somehow. Clear caulking on the seam is fixing the problem.