We Have Power !

[Sono]

Been debating a few things since buying this house 4 years ago. The first summer we lost power for nearly a month and lost just about everything in our deep freezer... Had BBQs and gave some away but people are funny over getting free meat.... Id be leary too from strangers not knowing how its been handled so dont blame them.... so most was used for dog food .
Anyways, we have had a few days outage during the winters as well , nothing really major yet BUT want to be prepared. Pellet stoves wont work without power and wood stoves wont heat the whole house without circulation of some sort ( fans )
Well, I finally did what Ive been wanting to do since the first major outage we had as it sucked staying with someone ( camped out in their living room for nearly a month ) I purchased the Biggest generator I could find 13000 watts , Interlock, Inlet box.... And got it all connected to the Service Panel, Powering the entire house including septic and well systems without having to shut anything down as the wattages of everything is less than the running watts and well below the starting watts. This house is very well insulated due to the Winterization Program and the new HE HVAC system we can stay comfortable for the most part in an emergency.

 

[zrock]

Power for a month now who's fault was that the power company or yours? If it was teh power company they should have been supplying you a backup until things were fixed.

 

[blades]

Good for you . I have a whole house permanent mount genny on propane. saved the bacon a number times.

 

[blades]

Good luck with that of idea of the utility supplying emergency power for a home owner. Never seen that happen in an area wide outage in 74 years.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Been debating a few things since buying this house 4 years ago. The first summer we lost power for nearly a month and lost just about everything in our deep freezer... Had BBQs and gave some away but people are funny over getting free meat.... Id be leary too from strangers not knowing how its been handled so dont blame them.... so most was used for dog food .
Anyways, we have had a few days outage during the winters as well , nothing really major yet BUT want to be prepared. Pellet stoves wont work without power and wood stoves wont heat the whole house without circulation of some sort ( fans )
Well, I finally did what Ive been wanting to do since the first major outage we had as it sucked staying with someone ( camped out in their living room for nearly a month ) I purchased the Biggest generator I could find 13000 watts , Interlock, Inlet box.... And got it all connected to the Service Panel, Powering the entire house including septic and well systems without having to shut anything down as the wattages of everything is less than the running watts and well below the starting watts. This house is very well insulated due to the Winterization Program and the new HE HVAC system we can stay comfortable for the most part in an emergency.

The house I live in now (about a year) was already wired for a 30A generator at 240V. It goes into an emergency panel which goes into the main 200A panel. I bought a large Firman 8000W that I can use (just in case). Also, you could run your pellet stove with an inverter and 12V battery for awhile, which would give you enough time to get the generator up and running. BYW, most people would not be able to run a normal house load on a generator. ie electric stoves, AC, Heat pumps

 

[Whitenuckler]

Good luck with that of idea of the utility supplying emergency power for a home owner. Never seen that happen in an area wide outage in 74 years.

Never would happen. After the hurricane here a few years ago they had no power for 2 weeks and this is in the city.

 

[Sono]

Power for a month now who's fault was that the power company or yours? If it was teh power company they should have been supplying you a backup until things were fixed.

Power company, due to a strong thunder storm , power lines were down due to trees and whatever.... They wouldnt even replace the food ( usually about 30% value ) and said to file a claim with homeowners policy... heck no I aint jacking my rates for your lack of service/maintenance as they havent been maintaining tree lines on their easements. Oh no, they wouldnt dare lose a dime of their profits.

 

[Sono]

The house I live in now (about a year) was already wired for a 30A generator at 240V. It goes into an emergency panel which goes into the main 200A panel. I bought a large Firman 8000W that I can use (just in case). Also, you could run your pellet stove with an inverter and 12V battery for awhile, which would give you enough time to get the generator up and running. BYW, most people would not be able to run a normal house load on a generator. ie electric stoves, AC, Heat pumps

True, Luckily Ive done a ton of research ( disabled on limited income ) so this house is very energy efficient with LED lighting, High efficiency HVAC unit, Weatherized to the max ( new extra thick insulation in attic. windows/doors sealed, and every little crack n croonie airtight ) My electric bill is under $50 during the winter and under $100 during the summers with mostly 100 degree + heat. Propane fill up runs me $500 a year ( Furnace and water heater ) I do a partial fill in april to last the summer since it just runs the water heater and a full fill late November to last the winter, all appliances are HE so the wattages are lower than most which helps a lot. The only added draw was the new septic system as the county changed the rules from the gravity systems to using pump systems ( runs full time with aerator ) but only seen about a $10 increase on electric bill for the past year.
Yes, I have thought about the inverters/batteries in the past, but I decided if Im going to do this its best to just go all out. All together it cost about $1500 for everything including the generator on sale.
May move in the future and when I do, I plan to have a whole house permanent generator installed with the automatic switchover, This manual stuff works but a bit of a learning curve ( PITA ) hooking up, turning this off and on and this n that.... when you dont do it constantly its a bit complicated.

 

[Sono]

Never would happen. After the hurricane here a few years ago they had no power for 2 weeks and this is in the city.

Yup my cousin in FL was without pawer for 2 weeks after the last Hurricane, his Genny saved him. Power poles were snapped all along his road and surrounding areas. But true, the power companies no matter where you live, they dont care about you other than getting your money every month.

 

[Whitenuckler]

True, Luckily Ive done a ton of research ( disabled on limited income ) so this house is very energy efficient with LED lighting, High efficiency HVAC unit, Weatherized to the max ( new extra thick insulation in attic. windows/doors sealed, and every little crack n croonie airtight ) My electric bill is under $50 during the winter and under $100 during the summers with mostly 100 degree + heat. Propane fill up runs me $500 a year ( Furnace and water heater ) I do a partial fill in april to last the summer since it just runs the water heater and a full fill late November to last the winter, all appliances are HE so the wattages are lower than most which helps a lot. The only added draw was the new septic system as the county changed the rules from the gravity systems to using pump systems ( runs full time with aerator ) but only seen about a $10 increase on electric bill for the past year.
Yes, I have thought about the inverters/batteries in the past, but I decided if Im going to do this its best to just go all out. All together it cost about $1500 for everything including the generator on sale.
May move in the future and when I do, I plan to have a whole house permanent generator installed with the automatic switchover, This manual stuff works but a bit of a learning curve ( PITA ) hooking up, turning this off and on and this n that.... when you dont do it constantly its a bit complicated.

Wow Excellent ! The lowest power bill I have seen is like $200 CAD but that's not all energy charges of course. With my pellet stove I have the winter bill down but now buying pellets! To be honest I am happy with manual interlocking on the main panel for a small system like ours. I owned a house with a natural gas generator and automatic transfer panel. When I moved into that place I found out no one was maintaining it and I ended up replacing the control card and voltage regular card. In the end I found out the automatic battery trickle charge that was built into it was cooking the battery. I ended up installing a "smart" external battery charger and had to change the setting to manual. I am home enough of the time to decide what to do.

 

[Sono]

Wow Excellent ! The lowest power bill I have seen is like $200 CAD but that's not all energy charges of course. With my pellet stove I have the winter bill down but now buying pellets! To be honest I am happy with manual interlocking on the main panel for a small system like ours. I owned a house with a natural gas generator and automatic transfer panel. When I moved into that place I found out no one was maintaining it and I ended up replacing the control card and voltage regular card. In the end I found out the automatic battery trickle charge that was built into it was cooking the battery. I ended up installing a "smart" external battery charger and had to change the setting to manual. I am home enough of the time to decide what to do.

Nice. My gen has auto and remote start but being portable I have to drag it out and hook everything up even in inclimate weather... I am planning to build a pad with a weatherproof/critter proof enclosue to keep it outside and opens when needed ( all 4 sides lift for venting/cooling and yet shield from the weather.
I installed a whole house Surge Protector in the panel as well... so its protected on and off the generator power.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Nice. My gen has auto and remote start but being portable I have to drag it out and hook everything up even in inclimate weather... I am planning to build a pad with a weatherproof/critter proof enclosue to keep it outside and opens when needed ( all 4 sides lift for venting/cooling and yet shield from the weather.
I installed a whole house Surge Protector in the panel as well... so its protected on and off the generator power.

That's a good idea re surge protection. I did the same. There was one in the panel similar to yours already, but one of the lights was dim. I bought one that is external, so I have two on my panel now. I don't have one in my emergency panel though. I would need something for my generator too. It is extremely loud and then there is the exhaust issue as well. I am in the city, but all the lines are old and above ground. It takes them a long time to repair after a major incident. Most people in the country have little generator sheds. There is a way to extend the muffler from the spark arrestor and get that out of the box. Then you need ventilation and air for the motor which is the same as ventilation.

 

[Sono]

That's a good idea re surge protection. I did the same. There was one in the panel similar to yours already, but one of the lights was dim. I bought one that is external, so I have two on my panel now. I don't have one in my emergency panel though. I would need something for my generator too. It is extremely loud and then there is the exhaust issue as well. I am in the city, but all the lines are old and above ground. It takes them a long time to repair after a major incident. Most people in the country have little generator sheds. There is a way to extend the muffler from the spark arrestor and get that out of the box. Then you need ventilation and air for the motor which is the same as ventilation.

They have a generator box that supposedly quiets them down as well as protects them BUT I do not trust enclosing a generator in it. They supposedly are sealed to cut noise and use a fan to pull air through to cool the generator, whith the amount of heat they produce I wouldnt think that 1 little fan would suffice and if that 1 fan was to fail it is surely instant "unalived" generator.

 

[Whitenuckler]

They have a generator box that supposedly quiets them down as well as protects them BUT I do not trust enclosing a generator in it. They supposedly are sealed to cut noise and use a fan to pull air through to cool the generator, whith the amount of heat they produce I wouldnt think that 1 little fan would suffice and if that 1 fan was to fail it is surely instant "unalived" generator.

No, I would not get one of those for sure. If you have room for a shed (and the extra money for materials ect) then a large shed is the way to go. Has to be close to the plug (50 feet?) or if you use your existing cord, that might be closer. Can't be too close though due to the fumes and fire hazard. If not, then a box with a roof is better than nothing. You could build most of it with pallets if you can get good ones for free. The exhaust adapter you might be able to buy from Amazon, or Utube shows how to make one from a plumbing flange. It will still be loud but a little less, but protected and ready to go. I have mine in the garage now and it's so heavy I can barely move it around on it's rear wheels. I would like to have larger wheels and four of them instead of 2. Then I could haul it outside when needed. I might make up 4 sides and a roof that come apart along with a plywood base. Then of course I'd need to store all of that in my shed.

 

[zrock]

Power company, due to a strong thunder storm , power lines were down due to trees and whatever.... They wouldnt even replace the food ( usually about 30% value ) and said to file a claim with homeowners policy... heck no I aint jacking my rates for your lack of service/maintenance as they havent been maintaining tree lines on their easements. Oh no, they wouldnt dare lose a dime of their profits.

Ahhh never thought of natural disasters, i do not see that type of thing up here worse we see is a 1 day planned outage.

 

[Highbeam]

Been debating a few things since buying this house 4 years ago. The first summer we lost power for nearly a month and lost just about everything in our deep freezer... Had BBQs and gave some away but people are funny over getting free meat.... Id be leary too from strangers not knowing how its been handled so dont blame them.... so most was used for dog food .
Anyways, we have had a few days outage during the winters as well , nothing really major yet BUT want to be prepared. Pellet stoves wont work without power and wood stoves wont heat the whole house without circulation of some sort ( fans )
Well, I finally did what Ive been wanting to do since the first major outage we had as it sucked staying with someone ( camped out in their living room for nearly a month ) I purchased the Biggest generator I could find 13000 watts , Interlock, Inlet box.... And got it all connected to the Service Panel, Powering the entire house including septic and well systems without having to shut anything down as the wattages of everything is less than the running watts and well below the starting watts. This house is very well insulated due to the Winterization Program and the new HE HVAC system we can stay comfortable for the most part in an emergency.

I am a big fan of using an interlock to legally backfeed the panel from a portable genset. Awesome flexibility, capability, simplicity, and cheap! I am not a big fan of using such a huge gasoline generator. First, the backfeed breaker in your panel, is it 30 amps? 50 amps? Even a 50 amp breaker would only allow you to get 12000 watts to the panel but most are 30 amp so please check it. Then you've got to realize that this generator will be sucking over 1 gallon per hour of gasoline even lightly loaded. Are you prepared for that? Storing large quantities of gasoline can be challenging and buying gasoline during a power outage can be impossible. Especially if the outage is long term.

What I propose is a two generator solution. A little fuel sipper inverter (2000-3000 watts) for constant QUIET use which you can use to backfeed both sides of the panel with 120 volts and then the big genset for short term needs including 240 volt loads like water pump and water heater.

I wonder if you ever even need more than half of that 13000 watts with propane water heat and pellet stove.

In my case I use a champion 2500 watt inverter and a firman 8000 or whatever 440cc monster from costco. All dual fuel of course so I can use propane or gasoline. Storing large amounts of propane is very easy. Gasoline, not so much.

 

[begreen]

The longest we have weathered so far has been 6 days. Learned a lot during that first one back in 1996 including setting up for future outages. We have minimal 220v dependencies. There's no well here and sponge baths can suffice in a long winter outage. The heat pump is the major 220v load and for that we have the wood stove.

Storing large amounts of gasoline is a pita at best. It is heavy, requires lots of cans and the safe space for them, and it gets stale if not used. Propane is easier to store over the long haul. We have a propane generator for extended outages and the car has V2L, that with judicious metering primarily for food preservation, can last a couple of weeks.

 

[Highbeam]

One other thing that can help you reduce your perceived need for such a huge genset is to buy a killawatt watt measuring device so you can see that your refrigerator uses only about 100 watts while running, not the insane amount that the generator selling people want you to believe. The folks selling generators want to trick you into paying more for a larger generator than you need.

 

[begreen]

The genny needs to be able to handle the startup current too. For an older one that could be 600w.

 

[Highbeam]

The genny needs to be able to handle the startup current too. For an older one that could be 600w.

I am skeptical of that. Sounds like more generator salesman propaganda!

 

[gthomas785]

I am skeptical of that. Sounds like more generator salesman propaganda!

Why are you skeptical? Basic electrical theory. If you try to start a motor on a supply that can't handle the inrush current the voltage will drop and the generator will fall on its face.

Typically, generators will have 2 ratings, one is for the continuous load that it can carry and another "peak" rating that is what it can supposedly handle for short periods without stalling. However, the generator salesmen usually want to write the biggest number they can get away with on the label so the advertised rating will be the peak rating. So if for example you had a "200W peak" generator (that's very small btw) it would most likely not be able to start a 100W fridge. With that said I think most every generator on the market can handle a 600 watt starting load and would be labeled accordingly.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Why are you skeptical? Basic electrical theory. If you try to start a motor on a supply that can't handle the inrush current the voltage will drop and the generator will fall on its face.

Typically, generators will have 2 ratings, one is for the continuous load that it can carry and another "peak" rating that is what it can supposedly handle for short periods without stalling. However, the generator salesmen usually want to write the biggest number they can get away with on the label so the advertised rating will be the peak rating. So if for example you had a "200W peak" generator (that's very small btw) it would most likely not be able to start a 100W fridge. With that said I think most every generator on the market can handle a 600 watt starting load and would be labeled accordin

Mine says 10000/8000W

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/firman-10000-8000-watt-gas-powered-remote-start-portable-generator-with-439cc-engine/1001682003?eid=PS_GO_140203__ALL_PLA-526641&eid=PS_GOOGLE_D00_Corporate_GGL_Shopping_All-Products_All%20Products__PRODUCT_GROUP_pla-294357559827&pid=1001682003&store=7173&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1624814283&gclid=CjwKCAjwo4rCBhAbEiwAxhJlCZoDIbUOczZpESMSHSpvVVKKw2rhObQ6T4s2SHG6esKZH2gHeuiVfxoCFZEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

It is a big pig though. Weighs a ton, and as loud as a jet taking off. This one won't take propane either. I have a 120V 3000W inverter
generator also that is dual fuel. I use it for camping with my trailer. It has never seen gas, and it never will. I can't directly use it for my house. Some day I will buy the right combination of receptacles and plugs to make up a patch cord. I only have one 240V breaker in my emergency panel so I would just shut that off when running 120V to both legs.

 

[begreen]

I am skeptical of that. Sounds like more generator salesman propaganda!

It's pretty much fact and listed on most good ac motors. How much headroom is needed depends on the motor design. In our case we have one large modern refer in the house and an older fridge, and a freezer in the garage. Although it's unlikely that all 3 would start at the same time, my habit when switching over to the genny is to let the garage units start up, wait a minute or two, then add the house load.

gthomas hit the nail on the head. Our genset is marketed at 2400w, 120v, but read the details and it's actually 2400w peak, 2000w continuous.

 

[Highbeam]

No, I agree there is a startup surge but I do not agree that it is 6X. That’s BS generator salesman talk.

The real issue is the defrost heater that can cycle once a day or so with a few hundred extra watts. No surge though.

 

[gthomas785]

No, I agree there is a startup surge but I do not agree that it is 6X. That’s BS generator salesman talk.

The real issue is the defrost heater that can cycle once a day or so with a few hundred extra watts. No surge though.

Inrush of a motor can be 10x or more the running current. It is brief though, and the inertia of a large engine can usually always carry through it. A small engine will have much more trouble.