Welder advice

[walhondingnashua]

I'm sure there are more than a few people on here with welding experience.
I am shopping for a wire feed welder. I have experience (I am no pro but have done a bit of welding with both stick and wire). Mostly welded with an old buzz box stick, a little with a titanium 110v (no gas) and a good lincoln mig (with gas but way out of my price range). I don't need gas and I am not looking to do professional work. Just odd jobs. The max material will be 1/2."
The 2 machines I am looking at are the forney 140 (no gas but more wire speed and voltage adjustment) and the lincoln easy mig (gas but no regulator and adjustments on speed and voltage are not as good). Both of good reviews for what I am looking to do and are in my price range (around $300).
Any opinions or experience with these machines? Any other machines in my price ranges others have bought and like?

 

[Gearhead660]

I am partial to Hobart and Miller. Lincoln are good welders also. I have a Hobart Handler180, little bigger and more expensive than you are looking at, but they have a 100 and 125 closer to your price range.

 

[SpaceBus]

1/2" thick is super thick steel, and you will need a professional welder to handle that kind of material.

I bought this little guy, and it's rated up to 1/4" material. The support leg on my splitter froze to the ground unbeknownst to me and I tried to hitch it up and move it with my tractor. The tongue split behind the ball adapter so I bent it back, cleaned it up, welded the cracks, and then reinforced it with some steel. I'll snap a pic of the repair after I paint it and get it back together today. I'm no pro, and its hard to get nice looking welds with flux core, but it works. While patching the metal yesterday I spent more time grinding down welds than actually welding, but this is my third time using a flux core machine, and I've only used a gas welder twice.

 

[walhondingnashua]

I know 1/2 will be a real stretch for what I am looking at. That will on a rare occasion and mostly just fixing damage on old, homemade tractor attachments. I like that amazon machine for the price. if it can weld a tongue on a splitter, that's the kind of thing I am looking for. My neighbor has the one of those smaller hobarts and does all kinds of car repair and fabrication. The 100 is now on my list.

 

[SpaceBus]

I know 1/2 will be a real stretch for what I am looking at. That will on a rare occasion and mostly just fixing damage on old, homemade tractor attachments. I like that amazon machine for the price. if it can weld a tongue on a splitter, that's the kind of thing I am looking for. My neighbor has the one of those smaller hobarts and does all kinds of car repair and fabrication. The 100 is now on my list.

It got the job done, and the settings out of the box were how I ended up leaving it. I welded up some test pieces to check for penetration before going at it with the splitter. I don't even know if there is a local place that could provide welding gas, but when I have a shop/garage I'd like to upgrade to a serious US made 220v stick or MIG welder.

 

[zrock]

I would go with the lincoln its a great little welder... I used to have one and could do just about anything with that 110 little welder thicker stuff needing extr passes and proper prep. That welder got stolen and i picked up a no name welder and that was garbage would always pop my 20A breaker, Then got a off brand that Prax air used to sell that was a lower end of their high end equipment welds good but same thing will pop my breaker just welding sheet metal... All 2 welders were 20A but only one would run properly off the 20A. I have been patiently waiting to find a used one like i used to have...
The only issue i ever had with the lincoln is the first day i got it i was welding in a confined space with no room to move and welded the tip to my work and fried the board in it took it back and they exchanged it right away. Had that welder about 8 years or more and probably ran about 10 50lb spools through it and it was still working like the day i purchased it..

 

[Ashful]

Also partial to Hobart, but Lincoln and Miller both work, as well. But I would NOT buy a wire-only welder, as most who start with wire eventually decide to take the plunge and add gas, at some later date. Any MIG can be operated as a wire welder on flux-core wire, just don't hook up the regulator and gas, but you at least have the option to convert later.

I have a Hobart Handler 175 that I picked up second hand pretty cheap (with regulator and hose), and ran it as a flux-core wire welder for my first few years with that machine. The only mod required was a change of the feed wheel ($10?) for the flux core wire type. It runs both polarities, and now that I've added gas and regulator, it actually welds real nice.

Ditto on 1/2" material, if you really need that sort of penetration with anything a hobbiest can afford, just buy a Lincoln AC 225 and get messy. Most consumer-level MIG's are 1/4" max, but you can get decent welds in thicker material if you can work both sides of the joint, or by cutting castellations or holes into the joint for better accessibility and penetration to the mating part.

I'd start surfing C'list and eBay for a used Hobart or Lincoln MIG. Convert the feed wheel for flux core, and use it as a wire welder, until your skills get good enough that you get fed up with the zero-visibility scenario and spatter of flux core. But at least you'll have the option to change it to a real MIG, when you're ready.

 

[Bad LP]

Id be looking at a used machine with more power. Welding 1/2 inch is going to take some juice.
I have a Lincoln 250 gas welder that can also stick weld if I had the leads. Older than dirt with a new gun and gas regulator. I'd love something smaller (buzz box) like my plasma cutter but I can't justify the need because I want smaller.

I think I'll live. LOL

 

[peakbagger]

I have a Lincoln Mig. That said I have heard good things about the "throw away" chi com welders while they run. They inevitably will break and parts are not going to be available. If you push the duty cycle and not let them cool down, they will have a shorter life.

Most folks just throw them away and buy a new one when the old one stops running. Mine is at least 15 years old and it still runs fine. I use mine intermittently and at one point my liner rusted, I just ordered up a part from any number of sources and 20 minutes after it got dropped off I was up and running. I bought a small cylinder of shield gas and for my use it lasts a long time so no cylinder rental.

I have never used the flux core wire, I have heard grumbling about the quality sold at the stores who sell the welders. It may be worth dropping by a welding supply store and getting good quality wire. In general I find the consumables supplied at Harbor Freight type stores are crap and tend to be a bi cuase cause for operating issues.

I have Mig welded 1/4 and 3/8" steel. It requires serious prep work. Grind it back at a 45 degrees from both sides leaving about a 1/16" thickness at the center. Then start laying down the beads alternating sides making sure the beads are clean with no slag along the sides.

Invest in a good automatic welding helmet. It makes a big difference in weld quality.

 

[SpaceBus]

I'd start surfing C'list and eBay for a used Hobart or Lincoln MIG. Convert the feed wheel for flux core, and use it as a wire welder, until your skills get good enough that you get fed up with the zero-visibility scenario and spatter of flux core. But at least you'll have the option to change it to a real MIG, when you're ready.

Can confirm, visibility is poor with flux core. I went with this specific machine because it can also do stick/arc welding, which is better for thick material like 1/2" anyway. Getting a proper MIG welder is also solid advice. If I had a shop I wouldn't have bothered with this little "baby" welder.

 

[bholler]

I got the Vulcan 220 from harbor freight and honestly it works as well as the millermatic I have used for a hell of a lot less money

 

[Ashful]

Can confirm, visibility is poor with flux core.

The last job I did with flux core was some chain grab hooks atop the bucket of my 320R loader. I get tired now of making excuses as to why the welds were ugly. It's not that I couldn't weld back then, it's that I couldn't see what the hell I was doing thru the flux-core smoke, I was welding by braille.

Ever since adding gas to that welder and ditching the flux core wire, I've had half a mind to cut those hooks off and redo the welds, but other projects always take priority.

I've read that flux-core can work better on windy days outdoors, which is part of why I stuck with it as long as I did. My shop is usually filled with sawdust or wood shavings, and hence most of my welding is done out in the driveway. But I think it would need to be more windy than any conditions in which I've ever welded, to make flux core actually preferable to MIG.

 

[walhondingnashua]

All great advice. It seems like the foreny is to new for anyone to have experience with and the easy mig lincoln is a good machine for its price (and can use gas). I cam going to be diligent on marketplace for a good used ones.
I do have an old lincoln easy weld stick welder that has been given to me but I haven't used it. It is 110v. What can I expect from it? Even though its 110v, can it weld that thicker materials for me? I still plan on buying a mig but having that stick option is possible.

 

[Bad LP]

The only time I’ve ever seen flux core was welding cleats on a bull dozer. Not one got snapped off. That machine was mostly in a rock pile.

That man could lay a bead so nicely.

 

[Ashful]

I do have an old lincoln easy weld stick welder that has been given to me but I haven't used it. It is 110v. What can I expect from it? Even though its 110v, can it weld that thicker materials for me? I still plan on buying a mig but having that stick option is possible.

Depends on what current arc it can maintain. Look at the amperage dial on the welder, and then Google is your friend, here's a start: https://www.weldingmania.com/stick/welding-rod-sizes-amps-and-position-charts/

I did lots of welding with a Lincoln AC 225 "Tombstone", aka "Buzz Box", it was the only welder my family owned when I was growing up. You can weld anything with a stick, if you don't mind the slag. Get a needle scaler, if you have a good air supply and want to use the stick welder more than occasionally. I remember also having carbon rods for cutting, and some other specialty rods for various materials, but it's been long enough I forget the details now.

Stick has similar visibility issues to flux core wire welding, smoke generated by the flux coating on the rods, but the effect is not as bad (maybe because the arc is generally much brighter). Both stick welding and flux core wire tend to haze and eventually ruin mask lenses, if you get your face as close as I generally do. Newer masks all have cheap quick-change plastic shields over the auto-dim lens, and I always have some spares. With gas, that issue mostly goes away.

 

[SpaceBus]

The last job I did with flux core was some chain grab hooks atop the bucket of my 320R loader. I get tired now of making excuses as to why the welds were ugly. It's not that I couldn't weld back then, it's that I couldn't see what the hell I was doing thru the flux-core smoke, I was welding by braille.

Ever since adding gas to that welder and ditching the flux core wire, I've had half a mind to cut those hooks off and redo the welds, but other projects always take priority.

I've read that flux-core can work better on windy days outdoors, which is part of why I stuck with it as long as I did. My shop is usually filled with sawdust or wood shavings, and hence most of my welding is done out in the driveway. But I think it would need to be more windy than any conditions in which I've ever welded, to make flux core actually preferable to MIG.

The pro's I've met keep wind blockers up, indoors. I have no place to store a gas cylinder, elsewise I would have a gas welder!

 

[Ashful]

The pro's I've met keep wind blockers up, indoors. I have no place to store a gas cylinder, elsewise I would have a gas welder!

I’ll have to look into wind screens. In the meantime, I just ran up to my carriage barn in the pouring rain to get these photos for you.

Here’s my wee-little welding cart with gas for the MIG:



It stores nicely under the stairs, with the oxy-acetylene cutting torch:

 

[SpaceBus]

I’ll have to look into wind screens. In the meantime, I just ran up to my carriage barn in the pouring rain to get these photos for you.

Here’s my wee-little welding cart with gas for the MIG:

View attachment 294524

It stores nicely under the stairs, with the oxy-acetylene cutting torch:

View attachment 294525

That's a nice setup. Due to this thread I looked up cylinder exchange locally and I can get one when the time comes.

 

[ABMax24]

You guys really need to look up multi-pass welding. I don't care if you are welding with tiny 0.023" wire in a tiny mig or 1/4" 7018 rod with a 500amp CC power supply, you will never weld 1/2" thick in a single pass. It is absolutely doable to weld 1/2" material with a small 100 amp mig (GMAW) machine, just make more passes.

I run a fab shop for a living, with very limited exceptions you very rarely deposit more than 1/4" of material in a single pass. Weld procedures (in particular max heat input values) don't allow for anymore than this. This is for common low-carbon manganese steels, exotic metals or alloy steels are often more stringent and deposition thickness is often lower to limit heat input.

All this being said I gringe when people want MIG machines, yes its easy to run a nice appearing bead, but weld defects are so much more common with solid wire processes. Particularly defects undetectable by common NDE methods, lack of fusion is very prevalent because it's possible to lay molten weld material overtop of the base material without actually melting and fusing to it.

A basic DC/CC power source for stick and learning to weld with 7018 is a very valuable skill. Almost every welding code everywhere recognizes this as an acceptable means to weld mild steel. Gas and gasless flux-core wires are another means of easily producing acceptable joints, if the correct wire and gases are used.

 

[Ashful]

All this being said I gringe when people want MIG machines, yes its easy to run a nice appearing bead, but weld defects are so much more common with solid wire processes... A basic DC/CC power source for stick and learning to weld with 7018 is a very valuable skill.

Of course you're correct. But I'd argue that for an amateur, they're more likely to get to the point of making acceptable welds with a MIG, than any other means. Most folks who don't run a fab shop for a living aren't welding frequently enough to develop the skills to get better welds with other means.

 

[walhondingnashua]

Thank you ashful for taking that walk lol. Your set up is something I would like. I want to do most of my welding outside and plane on making a welding table on wheels. This is all great info. Thanks and please, keep it coming.

 

[blades]

for years all i had was a home made buzz box from 1.5 kv transformer . Made by a friend who was a master electrician. Actulaly it was pretty fancy with adj. voltage and adj amp. . Did everything with that rig, still have it. Have a carbon arc set up around somewhere that i used with it as well. Nowdays there is an old Linclon Torpedo at 300 amps DC and a Miller dial arc 250HF . Both of these really make the meter spin. More recently bought a Primeweld 200 amp unit, so I would have Tig as the hf in the miller went out, repairs were more than the prime unit cost. Likely about the same as the current equivalent Vulcan unit. Nice to be able to grab it and run on 220 or 110 ( 30 amp line, you can use o less just your top end is restriced and you have the likely hood of popping breaker) where ever i need to go as it only weighs around 50 lbs. When shopping for welders the important part is to look at duty cycles- some are so short that it makes them almost un- usable.

 

[Ashful]

for years all i had was a home made buzz box from 1.5 kv transformer . Made by a friend who was a master electrician. Actulaly it was pretty fancy with adj. voltage and adj amp. . Did everything with that rig, still have it. Have a carbon arc set up around somewhere that i used with it as well. Nowdays there is an old Linclon Torpedo at 300 amps DC and a Miller dial arc 250HF . Both of these really make the meter spin. More recently bought a Primeweld 200 amp unit, so I would have Tig as the hf in the miller went out, repairs were more than the prime unit cost. Likely about the same as the current equivalent Vulcan unit. Nice to be able to grab it and run on 220 or 110 ( 30 amp line, you can use o less just your top end is restriced and you have the likely hood of popping breaker) where ever i need to go as it only weighs around 50 lbs. When shopping for welders the important part is to look at duty cycles- some are so short that it makes them almost un- usable.

Another reason to go vintage, if looking at those Lincoln AC 225 "tombstones". The old ones had copper transformers and a much better duty cycle, than the ones they were selling the last time I looked. I was told the new ones actually have aluminum transformers, but did not verify, myself.

You reminded me of a time when I was a poor college student and working on the restoration and lift of a 1978 Bronco, when you mentioned making the meter spin. I was doing a bunch of welding with that old Lincon 225AC in a barn at one of our rental properties, not really giving any thought to whose electricity I was using, for both that welder and some heat. A month later, the owner of the business renting the first floor of that property from us approached me to ask why his electric bill was several hundred dollars higher than usual. Oops... I owed him some money.

 

[Ashful]

Thank you ashful for taking that walk lol. Your set up is something I would like. I want to do most of my welding outside and plane on making a welding table on wheels. This is all great info. Thanks and please, keep it coming.

A table with means to strap a bottle like mine to one leg, or better yet a 9" diameter hole in the table into which you could set the bottle and have the regulator at arm's reach, would be very nice. I'd also buy a drawer set (or two) hang under the top.

I need to reconfigure my shop, and would love to build a welding table, but it's somewhere around item 999 on my present priority list. I have a history of using the welder for three or four repair jobs, and maybe one big fabrication job, each year. This cart was the compromise toward that end.

If I didn't have a desire to store it under the lowest part of my staircase, I'd have bought a taller cart with another drawer or two. My cart is great for storing my helmet, gloves, tips, files, chalk... but it lacks sufficient space for clamps and magnets.

 

[SpaceBus]

A table with means to strap a bottle like mine to one leg, or better yet a 9" diameter hole in the table into which you could set the bottle and have the regulator at arm's reach, would be very nice. I'd also buy a drawer set (or two) hang under the top.

I need to reconfigure my shop, and would love to build a welding table, but it's somewhere around item 999 on my present priority list. I have a history of using the welder for three or four repair jobs, and maybe one big fabrication job, each year. This cart was the compromise toward that end.

If I didn't have a desire to store it under the lowest part of my staircase, I'd have bought a taller cart with another drawer or two. My cart is great for storing my helmet, gloves, tips, files, chalk... but it lacks sufficient space for clamps and magnets.

I need some clamps and magnets myself. One thing I really want to do this year is make a steel bullet trap that can handle my .45 rifle so I can recover lead easily. My current trap stops the bullets, but not fun to recover the lead, and is also made of an old cast iron wood stove.