What are my options for a small fireplace?

[HeorgeH]

Currently the fireplace measures about, 36" across the front, 26" across the back(trapezoid not rectangular base), depth 17" and a height of 30",. 2ft of tile in front of the fireplace. It has an Empire Loft Series gas burner in it. Loft series is just flames, no logs or or other stuff, just a stainless steel burner unit because I like it that way. There is currently a metal plate over the roof of the fireplace completely blocking the chimney, but before I had the gas unit installed a chimney sweep told me the flue would need to be relined for a wood burning insert.

Fuego Flame has a duel fuel insert that appeals to me as if the wood thing does not work out I can re establish the gas burner, but the minimum dimensions seem to large.

I am open to other suggestions as to what to put in the fireplace.

There is a hard wired smoke detection system in the room so I am sensitive to even small amounts of soot. I could petition for a heat sensor, but particles might travel throughout the house and I doubt I can convert all smoke sensors to heat sensors.

 

[begreen]

Welcome Heorge (George?) I'd try to make the call for either gas or wood and not try to install a hybrid. You will have many more options and a better performing unit.

 

[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum! Your fireplace does not sound particularly small; I think most medium sized wood inserts should fit in there and probably also some large ones. How much space do you want to heat and how is your layout? How well is your house insulated? How often do you want to use the stove; maybe 24/7 during the winter? Do you have an external or internal chimney? Do you have a favorite design style already (like modern, classic etc.). Is price a concern?

Very important is also the wood supply. A modern stove needs well seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20%. You will probably need about 2 to 3 cords to get through the winter. Nevertheless, it is usually very hard to find a firewood dealer that sells really seasoned wood. If you are set on switching to wood heat I would try to find the wood maybe even before deciding finally on a stove.

Regarding smoke detectors: When operated as intended new, modern stoves barely release any smoke into the room. I have one just around the corner at the chimney and it never went off so far.

 

[Woody Stover]

Zero smoke in the house here. With adequate draft I don't think it is often a problem.

 

[HeorgeH]

Answers to your questions:

How much space do you want to heat and how is your layout?

It is an old mansion. It was once steam heated but the heating is no longer functional. Currently there are gas heaters (Empire DV-55). The room is 20'x40' and has an open master stairway leading to the unheated upper floors. During the winter the stairway has a curtain draped over it to reduce hot air flowing up the stairway. If I have to pay to have the chimney relined I might as well go for the max on the fireplace.

How well is your house insulated? Poorly, it is basically a 1900s mansion that has not been upgraded much in the way of insulation.

How often do you want to use the stove; maybe 24/7 during the winter? I plan on putting an Empire DV-55E vented gas heater in the living room, wh

Do you have an external or internal chimney? Internal Chimney. It is a brick fireplace running up the centerline of the building in an old frame mansion originally meant for an ornamental fire. At some point I think there was a very small stove meant for coal in it as I remember my parents throwing one out. As I said before the fireplace has a newly installed gas line for he gas burner.

Do you have a favorite design style already (like modern, classic etc.). I guess a large glass viewing area would be nice. A gas starter might also be nice since the gas line is already in place.

Is price a concern? Since I will have to have the chimney relined paying a little extra on the insert is not a problem.

My questions:

Is there such a thing as a bad insert?

Can having a chimney relined damage a house?

What mistakes could I make in getting one?

 

[rideau]

Is a stove sitting in front of the fireplace out of the question? With a huge area to heat, I think you'd get more heat from a large freestanding stove.

 

[HeorgeH]

Is a stove sitting in front of the fireplace out of the question? With a huge area to heat, I think you'd get more heat from a large freestanding stove.

I never thought about a freestanding stove. An interesting suggestion. Thank you.

Would the flue run into the existing fireplace opening, or would a new opening in the chimney need to be made?

Is it possible to move the stove, into a closet for example, during the summer, possibly mount in on rollers? I understand it is heavy but is moving it something that a normal reasonable person would do?

If the stove was outside the fireplace with the flue running into the fireplace, would I be able to run both the stove and the Empire Loft series gas burner currently in the fireplace simultaneously?

 

[HeorgeH]

[quote="HeorgeH, post: 1486623, member: 28048"

Is it possible to move the stove, into a closet for example, during the summer, possibly mount in on rollers? I understand it is heavy but is moving it something that a normal reasonable person would do?[/quote]

From doing some internet searches , it would seem an automobile engine hoist is one method.

 

[rideau]

A freestanding stove would have a stovepipe that went into your lined chimney flue.

You could certainly disconnect the stove and move it during the off season, but VERY few people do that. You will likely find the stove does not bother you/is not in your way when not burning. A stove such as the Woodstock Progress Hybrid or the Lopi Cape Cod is designed to heat a large area. The stoves are soapstone and very attractive, as well as very efficient heaters. They are also surprisingly small for the heat they produce. Not at all overwhelming in a room. They are also VERY heavy, so you likely would not want to move them. If you really want to, you can. Won't hurt the stove. Just need to be careful not to hurt yourself, since they are heavy.

You cannot use the two heaters in the flue simultaneously. Each needs its own dedicated flue.

Whether code would allow you to leave the gas unit in place , but bypassed, when the stove was in use, with the ability to reconnect and use when the stove was not connected, I do not know. Would make sense, but code may not allow such an installation in case some idiot tried to run both at the same time. Also, I honestly don't know how safe it is to have the gas still connected to the hearth, when you are burning a woodstove or insert there, because of such things as the remote possibility of a gas leak, or a chimney fire. I personally would be a lot more comfortable if there was not a gas source near my wood stove. If you can turn the gas off where it comes into the home, and purge the line so there is no gas near the hearth, then maybe you can leave the unit in situ.

I doubt you'd ever move the stove once it was installed. They are easy to use and heat really well. You can easily burn the stove to produce very low heat, mild, moderate, or a great deal of heat. So there is little need for another source of heat. If for some reason you decided you didn't like heating with wood, it would be easy to remove a freestanding stove. Woodstock offers a 6 month 100 percent money back guarantee if you are for any reason unhappy with your stove...no questions asked.

Woodstock is about to introduce a new stove, the Union, which will be capable of producing even more heat than the Progress Hybrid, but it won't be as handsome a stove...much more modern and utilitarian. If you got a Progress Hybrid and found you needed even more heat, you could potentially return the PH for full refund and get a Union. But I doubt you'd do that.

The PH will easily burn producing meaningful heat for 12 hours per load. You can get more information about it at Woodstock's site, more info about the Cape Cod at Lopi's site. Woodstock sells directly to the customer, has excellent customer service both before purchase and during the entire time you own a stove of theirs. Parts if and when needed are sent promptly and at very reasonable cost. A good company. My experience is with Woodstock. Others can give you information about the Cape Cod and other large stoves.

 

[The Maine Stove Guy]

We have been burning the Cape Cod in our store and have been really impressed with the efficiency, burn times, and heat output. We would usually have two stoves burning in the area we have it but found that the Cape Cod did the job well by itself. Lopi is a good solid company with an excellent track record also.

Although it's not a Hybrid, The Hearthstone Equinox is a massive heater also and might be something you would want to take a look at. It sounds like you are going to need as much heat as you can get from what you are describing.

Warm Regards

 

[Grisu]

Answers to your questions:

How much space do you want to heat and how is your layout?

It is an old mansion. It was once steam heated but the heating is no longer functional. Currently there are gas heaters (Empire DV-55). The room is 20'x40' and has an open master stairway leading to the unheated upper floors. During the winter the stairway has a curtain draped over it to reduce hot air flowing up the stairway. If I have to pay to have the chimney relined I might as well go for the max on the fireplace.

How well is your house insulated? Poorly, it is basically a 1900s mansion that has not been upgraded much in the way of insulation.

How often do you want to use the stove; maybe 24/7 during the winter? I plan on putting an Empire DV-55E vented gas heater in the living room, wh

Do you have an external or internal chimney? Internal Chimney. It is a brick fireplace running up the centerline of the building in an old frame mansion originally meant for an ornamental fire. At some point I think there was a very small stove meant for coal in it as I remember my parents throwing one out. As I said before the fireplace has a newly installed gas line for he gas burner.

Do you have a favorite design style already (like modern, classic etc.). I guess a large glass viewing area would be nice. A gas starter might also be nice since the gas line is already in place.

Is price a concern? Since I will have to have the chimney relined paying a little extra on the insert is not a problem.

My questions:

Is there such a thing as a bad insert?

Can having a chimney relined damage a house?

What mistakes could I make in getting one?

Sorry, but I am still not quite clear how much area you want to heat. The room the stove will go in is only 800 sqft.; any medium size insert/stove will do that. If you want to heat most/all of your house it sounds you want to go as big as you can. Then you will need something with a firebox size above 3 cu ft. Putting a stove in front of the fireplace or partially recessed into it is certainly an option. There are some rear-venting stoves out there with a height of less than 30 inches. The Hearthstone Equinox with a firebox size of 4 cu ft. would be an option or maybe the already mentioned Lopi Cape Cod although it would only fit in front of the fireplace. The Jotul F500 would fit but may be undersized for your house. The F600 is a bit too high but maybe you can put it in front and the pipe would just fit under your fireplace opening. Some precise measurements will be required. Highly regarded here is also the Woodstock company for their outstanding customer service and nice stoves. Their stoves are catalytic which means the heat output can be more easily controlled and they are usually slightly more efficient. However, approx. every 5 years the cat may need to be replaced and you have to be careful to burn not any treated wood or paper with bright colors in there as it may harm the cat. The Woodstock Progress Hybrid would be a good one for you. If you don't like the idea of a freestanding stove in front of the fireplace I am sure there are also large inserts that will fit: e. g. the Lopi Freedom, the Regency I3100, and maybe also the Kuma Sequoia (could not find out how much depth that one needs). Since depth is your problem you will need an insert that sticks out pretty far from the fireplace opening to get a large firebox.

I would not insist in keeping the gas line in the fireplace. It is just unsafe and may give you major trouble with the code inspector and your insurance company. Lighting a fire in a stove is not a problem when you have dry wood.

Relining the chimney with a 6 inch (or 8 inch if you get a really big stove) steel liner usually does not harm the chimney (or the house). Since it is an interior chimney you may not need an insulated liner although it would still be helpful with draft and less creosote. How tall is the chimney?

There is rarely such a thing as a bad insert. Often customer service and design are the distinguishing factors. Once you have a few candidates ask for opinions here. Plus, I would say the #1 mistake people make when purchasing a stove is getting the wrong size stove. The other problem is using non-seasoned wood but that is hardly the fault of the stove.