What exactly is the difference between Cat & Non-Cat

[jscs.moore]

Hey Guys...I've been reading this forum for several months now since having my insert installed (Hampton HI300). I know that I have a non-cat insert and was advised that they are much more simple to learn/operate than a cat insert (i.e. HI400 or Grand Voyaguer, etc.) But what exactly is the difference between how a cat & non cat insert/stove works? What are the advantages/dis-advantages to cat & non-cat?

 

[begreen]

There are many past discussions on this topic. Here's a small sampling:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/choosing-and-using-your-wood-stove.147652/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cat-vs-noncat.115601/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...arding-cat-vs-non-cat-and-stove-brand.116156/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cat-vs-non-cat-pros-and-cons.87312/

 

[Highbeam]

Burn time. It's all about burn time. Due to the ability to burn at low outputs, the fuel load can last many times longer in a cat stove. Like 40 hours on the BK king. When that low output level matches your house needs it can me a magical thing.

 

[begreen]

It's about a lot more than just burn time, otherwise everyone would have a cat stove. The majority don't.

 

[Highbeam]

It's about a lot more than just burn time, otherwise everyone would have a cat stove. The majority don't.

Not yet.

 

[begreen]

Already had 30 yrs.. Maybe not in my lifetime either.

 

[brad wilton]

Like driving a toyota wake me up when we get there

 

[Highbeam]

Let's make this a cat vs. non-cat comparison. It's inevitable. We haven't done a fresh one in awhile.

The cat stoves are absolutely more complicated to run than a non-cat. There is an additional lever to pull that must be done when the stove has reached a certain temperature.

Your cat stove can be damaged (few hundred to repair) if you burn trash in it.

Good cat stoves are more expensive than the cheap and good non-cats but the same as good non-cats. There are no cheap and good cat stoves.

Your reward for the above is long burn times and low outputs while burning clean. Those of us that leave the house for work, want to sleep warm, heat primarily with wood, or live in smaller homes know that this low output and long burn time are extremely important. If you can sit at your large home and load the stove several times a day then the long burn times are less valuable.

I own one of each because I understand and appreciate the differences. I converted my home non-cat to a cat stove to receive this higher performance and I would highly recommend one of the "good" cat stoves for home heating.

At this time, only Woodstock and BK make good cat stoves. There's just no competition.

 

[begreen]

Takes 60 threads every 6 months to explain all the quirks of owning, running, tweaking and maintaining one.

 

[Squisher]

My non-cat has been going 24/7 for ages now, it is certainly quite easy to achieve overnight or all day burns in a decent sized non-cat stove. My house certainly isn't overheating by any means with daytime highs of right around freezing and some cold nights.

When I purchased my new stove this last fall I had considered a BK cat but in the end didn't like the idea of an expensive replaceable part that may only last a handful of years.

 

[jscs.moore]

Well...I'm new to wood burning and don't burn 24/7, so I'm glad I have a non-cat (Hampton HI300) insert. I have a 2,000 Sq.Ft Center Hall Colonial and could have fit a Regency I2600 or HI400 cat insert, but even the Regency dealer told me to stay clear of the cat inserts stating that they are "complicated to operate and will give you more frustration than pleasure." I'm not bashing cat stoves, but think going with a non-cat was the best choice for a newbie.

 

[coldkiwi]

Cat.... Noncat... Sorry could not resist, Merry Christmas

 

[Heftiger]

Well...I'm new to wood burning and don't burn 24/7, so I'm glad I have a non-cat (Hampton HI300) insert. I have a 2,000 Sq.Ft Center Hall Colonial and could have fit a Regency I2600 or HI400 cat insert, but even the Regency dealer told me to stay clear of the cat inserts stating that they are "complicated to operate and will give you more frustration than pleasure." I'm not bashing cat stoves, but think going with a non-cat was the best choice for a newbie.

I think this is a bit of a sales pitch. There's a girl in my office that had the Princess Insert installed, and she praises how simple it is to use. I don't understand this "cats are complicated" business. You start a fire, wait until the arrow says "Active", close the bypass and set the thermostat. Then you don't touch it again until the burn is complete. None of this "open the primary", "close the primary", "adjust the secondary", "adjust the secondary", "adjust the secondary". I feel like it would be more complicated to have a secondary burn stove. If my wife is cold she goes over and turns the dial up, if she's hot she turns it down, and the stove continues to burn clean. Simple.

 

[Highbeam]

If my wife is cold she goes over and turns the dial up, if she's hot she turns it down, and the stove continues to burn clean.

For the next 30 hours!

 

[bholler]

Then you don't touch it again until the burn is complete. None of this "open the primary", "close the primary", "adjust the secondary", "adjust the secondary", "adjust the secondary". I feel like it would be more complicated to have a secondary burn stove.

All i do with my tube style stove is load it get it up to temp shut it half way wait 10 mins then shut it all the way till the next reload. I dont know of any that you adjust primary and secondary air seperatly. that being said cat stoves are not very complicated either you just have to shut the bypass is the only difference. Maintenence on a cat stove it a bit more complicated but the good ones are not bad at all to work on.

Good cat stoves are more expensive than the cheap and good non-cats but the same as good non-cats. There are no cheap and good cat stoves.

No good cat stoves cost more than good non cats. And there are good budget non cats where there are not cats.

Really the biggest difference is the ability to burn low and slow with a cat stove. In my case where i need allot of btus that is not really a selling point for me i would not be burning low and slow very often at all. But in a tighter and better insulated house i would probably be running a cat stove.

I will not bash cat stoves but they are not the right stoves for every situation.

 

[Highbeam]

No good cat stoves cost more than good non cats. And there are good budget non cats where there are not cats.

You almost got it right. My fully loaded BK cat was under 3000$ but the hearthstone it replaced sells for 3500$ plus tax. The PE T6, another great cat stove, sells for 3200$ plus tax. If you want a top non-cat you will pay the same as the top cat stoves. The Woodstock cat stoves are even cheaper.

We do agree that there are no cheap, good, cat stoves and there are some cheap, good, non-cats.

 

[bholler]

You almost got it right. My fully loaded BK cat was under 3000$ but the hearthstone it replaced sells for 3500$ plus tax. The PE T6, another great cat stove, sells for 3200$ plus tax. If you want a top non-cat you will pay the same as the top cat stoves. The Woodstock cat stoves are even cheaper.

We do agree that there are no cheap, good, cat stoves and there are some cheap, good, non-cats.

yes a high end soap stone stove or an enameled cast iron one is going to cost as much if not more than a steel cat stove but if you get a comperable steel non cat it is going to cost less. You need to compare apples to apples what do you think that hearthstone stove would cost if it was a cat stove?

 

[Highbeam]

Okay, the cheapest version of a plain PE summit I could find. Painted plate steel. To match the BK ultra, the summit must have blower, plated door, and ash drawer just like the BK and we're up to 2765$ plus the SST gets you to 3041.50$. Same as my BK which was under 3000$ including SST.

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumm.htm)

I'm sure you can find a lower tier plate steel non-cat that's cheaper but the point is that the BK cat stoves are competitive with the high end non-cats. We also know that woodstocks are quite nice and much cheaper than BK.

 

[bholler]

Okay, the cheapest version of a plain PE summit I could find. Painted plate steel. To match the BK ultra, the summit must have blower, plated door, and ash drawer just like the BK and we're up to 2765$ plus the SST gets you to 3041.50$. Same as my BK which was under 3000$ including SST.

Ok how about quads regencies or lopis? All similar quality and lower priced. Yes you can find plate steel stoves that cost the same in both. But in general the price of a non cat is going to be lower for comparable stoves. Now the price difference for the upper level steel stoves is not that huge so if a cat stove would fit your needs better than a non cat I would say it would make sense to pay that extra.

I do not bash cat stoves at all. In many cases they make allot of sense but they are simply not the best fit every situation.

 

[Squisher]

I don't know what the blower and ash option are worth but I paid $2270 in Canadian pesos for my summit a couple of months ago. You can't really say you'd have to add those other options to say a summit to compare prices to the BK because with the summit you don't have to have them.

 

[Highbeam]

I've never seen a cheap, good, cat stove. I own a cheap, good, non-cat the NC30. That's the whole point, you aren't going to be able to get into a nice new cat stove for 650$ and that is a huge reason that the cat stoves aren't more common.

 

[Squisher]

Reading this forum lately it'd seem like the biggest difference between cat and non-cat besides burn time is the non-cats don't smell like smoke. Lol.

 

[Heftiger]

Reading this forum lately it'd seem like the biggest difference between cat and non-cat besides burn time is the non-cats don't smell like smoke. Lol.

Low blow...

 

[Squisher]

Heh, I was just stoking the fire. You know us non-cat guys and our constant fiddling!

 

[Squisher]

I don't want my postings misinterpreted, all meant in good fun. Honestly I really wanted a BK king but my chimney couldn'taccommodate it. I am very happy with my stove though, it kicks a ton of heat which was the most important thing to me.