What fireplace insert is this and why isn't it working?

[hemicharger69]

I bought this fireplace insert about 5 years ago. I forget the manufacturer and I cannot seem to locate the manufacture name anywhere on the insert. Can anyone identify the manufacturer and model?

I have a 2600sf house - open floor plan - multi level - open space. I bought this insert thinking it would heat my house and save energy costs. It has not done either. It burns 1 large seasoned hardwood log every 20 minutes or so. I was told this insert could burn for 10 hours on 1 log. I was told it burns wood and burns some of the fuel in the smoke with efficiency. It doesn't seem to do either. Sure, it will burn 10 hours or more, but it will consume half a cord of wood in the process. That doesn't seem efficient to me. The blower blows room temperature air for the first 1-2 hours before it begins to blow hot air. Even when it blows hot air, it's hotter just to keep the door open (and quieter). It burns fine whether door is open or closed. Sometimes it burns better when the door is closed.

I took pictures of the unit disassembled. I tried switching the fan connections and the fan blows strong. It turns the same direction no matter how I connect the leads. The fan blows into the channel under the insert and splits air flow two directions to either side of the insert. The air comes out the rear vent opening (approximately 1"x4" horizontal rectangular) up the sides of the insert and out of the screen vent openings on either side in front. This explains why it takes so long for the air to heat up. The air doesn't get hot until the bricks are hot enough (2" thick) to heat the air under the insert and on the sides.

The baffle tubes that are above the fire at the top of the inside of the insert are connected to an assembly of pipes that go through the bottom of the insert. I cannot tell whether the tubes in this assembly connect with the channel that directs the air blowing from the fan but I suspect not. There is another vent on side towards the front approximately 1" x 2" horizontal rectangular but it doesn't seem to channel any air flow.

The air that is blowing under the insert and up the sides and out the front is being blown through a separate channel from the air that may (or may not) be flowing from the front side vents that contains the heated air. It doesn't appear that the air in the baffles is blowing through the system when the fan is on. The two channels of air, (1) that contains air blowing from the fan and (2) air that is not moving from the heated baffles, are separated by a divide on the side attachments. Is this correct? Shouldn't the air be blowing through the baffles too?

There is a front vented opening that opens and closes with a lever inside the fire box. It appears this vent is connected to the channels that contains the heated air. When the fan is turned on, I do not see air blowing or being sucked into this front vent inside. the opening and closing of this vent doesn't seem to do anything at all actually.

The chimney is lined with a 6" diameter stainless steel liner that goes up the full length of the chimney over 2 stories high. There is approximately 6" air gap between chimney walls and liner. There is a damper from before the time this insert was installed that has not been removed. As a result, the liner is constricted to about 2-3" x 6-8" oval cross section at the damper. The fireplace does not fill the house with smoke ever.

What is wrong? Is this how the insert is supposed to perform?

YOUTUBE:

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[kennyp2339]

did you check your door gasket? After you get the fire going do you turn down the air control? Do you have a block off plate? (to keep the heat from rising up your chimney)
Perhaps the best thing to do is see if a member here can identify what you have then you can download the manual and learn the operation. I don't have access to youtube right now (company computer)

 

[Jags]

There will be more info needed to help diagnose what is going on, but I will start with a couple of things that stood out in your post above. First - 2600 SQFT is a large home to heat with a single stove. Yes, some have been successful but much of that comes from home layout and insulation value. One stove is NOT (EVER) gonna heat 2600 sqft on one log for 10 hours. Period. There simply is not enough BTU content in a log (or split) to make that happen.

Second - because of reading your method of burning I suspect that your burning methods (and possibly fuel) is part of the problem. One method of getting a rough calculation for the amount of wood you can expect to burn is to know how much energy your current heat is consuming. Whether in the form of fuel used (propane, oil) or the amount of electric consumed (electric baseboard, etc).

Next - we will need to know some specifics, such as stove temps during it run (sounds like you are not getting close to operational temps to me). How much wood are you loading, how has the wood been seasoned (how long cut/split/stacked). It may sound a bit crazy, but weighing your load of wood with an accurate moisture content would be very valuable info in trying to figure this out.

Edit: Is that possibly a PE Summit insert? Kinda looks like one. Or maybe the Vista:

 

[jatoxico]

Echoing what Jags said, there is a lot more info needed to get serious about figuring out what's going on. Couple things that struck me;

The blower blows room temperature air for the first 1-2 hours before it begins to blow hot air. Even when it blows hot air, it's hotter just to keep the door open (and quieter).

The fan should not even be on until the unit comes to temp (stove top around 4-5 hundred). Running with the door open is pointless and can in fact suck out more heat than it gives. The insert should be jacketed to circulate room air over the hot stove surfaces and send that warm air to the room.

There is a damper from before the time this insert was installed that has not been removed. As a result, the liner is constricted to about 2-3" x 6-8" oval cross section at the damper.

This may need correcting. That the installer did this makes me suspicious of the rest of the install and leaves me doubtful that the chimney was insulated to prevent heat loss in any way. Don't know if this is an exterior or interior chimney but either way, as mentioned a block off plate is highly recommended but that excessive ovalization of the liner sounds like a trouble spot now or in the future. How do clean the liner?

Edit; just watched the video. Are the bricks missing or just temporarily removed?

 

[begreen]

Tube stove. Definitely not PE. There should be a UL tag on the side or back of the insert identifying it.

Not sure what it is but the issue of low heat probably is not with the stove design. Might be that the wood is too damp inside. How well seasoned is the wood being burned? When was it split and stacked?

 

[hemicharger69]

My main question is whether the tubes in the baffle carry blown air or is it just the network of internal draft channels by design?

My understanding from responses is that the air flow doesn't heat up until the exterior perimeter of the insert heats up. This corrects my initial understanding that heater blows hot air as long as there's a flame. This would take a lot longer than if the blower was blowing air directly through the pipe baffles into the room.

The chimney is not insulated. The fire pit in which the insert is inserted is not insulated. Would this explain why it takes so long for the blown air to heat up? What material can I use to insulate the firepit if necessary? Can I use fiber glass insulation material?

As far as the firewood, the wood is seasoned hardwood like oak, poplar, cedar, or maple. Bricks were temporarily removed in the Youtube because I was trying to diagnose the issue.

I was not able to find a tag with manufacturer. I cannot download the user manual without first knowing the manufacturer.

Thank you for your recommendations and insights. I am a novice as you can probably tell when it comes to fireplace technology.

 

[bholler]

My main question is whether the tubes in the baffle carry blown air or is it just the network of internal draft channels by design?

No the blower has nothing to do with the combustion air these stoves rely on natural draft not forced draft which means air is sucked in through the intakes by the draft of the chimney which in your case has been compromised by the liner being so heavily ovalized.

This would take a lot longer than if the blower was blowing air directly through the pipe baffles into the room.

Those tubes introduce air into the top of the firebox to burn off the smoke

The chimney is not insulated. The fire pit in which the insert is inserted is not insulated. Would this explain why it takes so long for the blown air to heat up? What material can I use to insulate the firepit if necessary? Can I use fiber glass insulation material?

No you need a fireproof insulation like rock wool or ceramic wool.

As far as the firewood, the wood is seasoned hardwood like oak, poplar, cedar, or maple. Bricks were temporarily removed in the Youtube because I was trying to diagnose the issue.

Get a moisture meter chances are your wood is still to wet to work properly.

I have a 2600sf house - open floor plan - multi level - open space. I bought this insert thinking it would heat my house and save energy costs. It has not done either. It burns 1 large seasoned hardwood log every 20 minutes or so. I was told this insert could burn for 10 hours on 1 log. I was told it burns wood and burns some of the fuel in the smoke with efficiency. It doesn't seem to do either. Sure, it will burn 10 hours or more, but it will consume half a cord of wood in the process.

Tell us how you are loading and what your typical burning procedure goes we may be able to help you out. And no it will not last 10 hours on one log. you may get 10 hours out of one load but no way one log

 

[jatoxico]

My main question is whether the tubes in the baffle carry blown air or is it just the network of internal draft channels by design?

The tubes are the stoves secondary combusters. These are supposed to burn smoke to extract more heat from the fuel and to reduce emissions. They only function after the internal temp of the stove gets high enough which is one reason to not turn the fans on right away.

 

[Fod01]

Some general information for you. The tubes at the roof of the stove are re-burn tubes. Once the insert is hot, these tubes feed air to help burn the smoke. The firebrick and baffle help to get the internal temp up so the stove can burn cleanly. From a cold start, expect to wait a half hour before the blower kicks on. At least.
Put at least 3 splits in at a time, let them burn down to coals, reload.

 

[begreen]

To summarize:
1) the blower air is strictly for convection past the stove and out into the room. It does not go to the secondary air system. Use the blower after the stove has warmed up.
2) the front "vent" cover is for boost air, it directs a small amount of air at the base of the fire for easier starting
3) make sure gaskets are properly attached in place for items that need them
4) put the firebrick back in the stove, don't run it without the firebrick!
5) get the stove identified and we may be able to help a bit more
6) no other insert is going to burn 10 hrs on one wood log. The stove will need a full load of dry wood to burn a decent amount of time. Yes that is an armload or two of wood. That is normal. How else can it produce the btus necessary?
7) get the manual and put the stove completely back together. Don't run it until it back in factory assembled condition.

 

[Fod01]

Jatoxico types faster or has less interruptions than I do [emoji3]

 

[jatoxico]

Was thinkin' the same thing about holler!

 

[rwhite]

My thoughts....
1. The air lever on the right side of the stove seems to be pulled out quite a ways. Not sure if you unhooked it from the air door or not to pull the side cover. Anyhow make sure when you move the lever in and out it is moving the intake door.

2. Although it is not air induced IMO the fan does have an effect on the burn. I think enough air moves across the intakes to have an effect. I know my insert does not burn as well with the fan off. My fan does not have a thermodisk do it runs all the time. I run it on low speed. If it's on high at start up it creates a vacuum as the fast moving air travels over the intake holes. Once burning the object is to move hot air off the stove surface not blow air into the room. Once again, usually low speed is adequate for this. To high and all you are doing is cooling the stove.

3. Once again, I don't know if it's been removed but there should be some kind of baffle above the upper air tubes. Secondary reburn will not occur properly if the baffle is not installed.

4. Even if burning properly, expect the first few burns on a clean stove to be very lackluster. My insert does not burn at the optimum when completely clean. Takes a few inches of ash in the bottom.

5. One log will not heat the stove. As others have said...Load it up. You will likely never get a 10 hour burn even on a full load. Expect 5-6 hours. Even if you are burning a single log every hour that tells me that the stove is getting to much air from somewhere. Either the front air intake or leaking door seal. Once a load is burning well, but before it coals, you should be able to close the air and darn near put the fire out or least reduce the burn significantly.

 

[BrotherBart]

Are you running the blower on high all of the time?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

10 hours on 1 log? That is not going to happen. Neither is half a cord of wood burned in 10 hours. lots of stoves burn 10 hours on a full load. Which is about 2 to 3 cu Ft of wood. 128 Cu. ft of wood or 1 cord will take you at least 22 days to burn through on 2 full loads a day.