Which stove to buy?

[Adam.weir]

hi, I’m brand new here but I’ve read a lot of reviews and advice so I thought I’d ask for educated opinions here. Thanks in advance!
I’m in southern Ontario. We have small bungalow (920 sq feet main floor and 920 sq feet finished basement. We want a stove in our basement which would be only a few feet from out main tv area. I’ve attached a pic.
The house is very efficient as it is. New efficient furnace and good insulation.
We just love wood heat and the ambiance.

I’m just worried to get burned out sitting so close to stove.
I’ve looked at:
Jøtul f400 and 500
PE vista
Napoleon s9, 1450
Hearthstone (forget model)

Found a great deal on a f500 but backed out because I thought it was too much stove.
I also though soapstone might be a good way to go because of the softer heat?

I know a lot of people say you can always make a smaller fire in a big stove but you can’t make a small stove Bigger.... Or something to that affect.

I’m also trying do do this on a budget so I’m looking for a used stove. Lots out there but would also like to know if there are some major disadvantages to buy used (aside from the obvious condition of the stove ie cracks, gaskets, baffles.)
How old is too old when buying used?

Thank you very much!

 

[Adam.weir]

Just to add...
We have a couple cord of good seasoned wood.
Not needing this to be out primary source of heat, but open to it if our basement doesn’t turn into a sauna!

 

[begreen]

A small stove would probably suffice, especially if the goal is ambiance and not 24/7 heating. A smaller Jotul F100 or F3CB would be better in this case. Is there a nearby open stairwell for the heat to convect up to the main floor?

Do you want the look of a cast iron stove or would a steel stove also work? Have you looked at the Drolet Pyropak?

 

[Adam.weir]

Hi, I’m open to all quality stoves. I felt like the f100 looked too small, but again I don’t really know if a bigger stove will be ‘too much’

I understand that a smaller stove would be sufficient, but can a bigger stove do that and more and not be too hot?

The stairs to the upstairs are literally on the opposite side of the house. It’s all open but far away.

 

[begreen]

Your comfort level is going to depend on how much heat stays in that room vs how much can covect upstairs and relieve an overheating situation. Even the F3CB puts out a lot of heat, just not as long as its bigger brethren. If the basement is wide open then you might be able to create a nice convection loop with a fusible-link protected grate in the ceiling if local code permits. That would allow hot air to rise upstairs and cooler air to return down the stairwell.

How do you anticipate burning? Nights and weekends or 24/7 all winter long?

 

[KennyK]

Perhaps you want to look at a Woodstock Keystone or Palladian. Small stoves that can go low and slow to achieve long burn times. Everyone who has Woodstock stoves loves them for good reason. Not cheap, but some claim they burn 25% less wood due to their amazing ability to burn extremely efficiently, so over time you get the money back. You can sometimes find used Keystones, Palladian and Fireviews (as their other stoves are newer models they don’t come up used very often).

I had a Jøtul F100 and other than its beautiful look, I wasn’t a fan, but it was a bit unfair as it was way undersized for my application. However, regardless of my application, there are concrete things that the stove has against it - You can barely get an 16 inch split in it, even though it’s rated for that (you might get one in but it’s challenging when you get to split two or three). It’s not very efficient compared to other modern stoves. It seems to be pretty susceptible to big temp swing - hard to just keep a steady temp for a long time. And, you will be filling it all the time to keep the fire going.

I now have a Woodstock Ideal Steel. The jury is still out for me if I will keep this stove or downsize (I’m still working with their 6-month, full refund including shipping, guarantee), but I will tell you that this stove is completely controllable for hours on end (can keep the same temp based on how you set the air intake for as long as you have wood in it, which is a long time), and the heat quality it puts out is amazing and not overwhelming (while it is a steel stove, it has a soapstone liner and side plates). I’ve read similar reports over and over again from Woodstock owners on this site (search around for reviews) and if I downsize, I plan to stick with Woodstock. Also, best customer service in the business - call them and ask ANY questions you have and they will help (even if you buy one of their stoves used from someone other than directly from them).

Good luck!

 

[Adam.weir]

Hmmm. Makes sense. I’m not sure adding a grate is possible as it’s a drop ceiling in the basement. I’d have to explore that idea...
Here is a pic looking toward the stairs from where the stove would be.
The stairs are at the far end of the pic going up back towards the living space.

The plan is to use it when we are home. (We are home a lot). Love the smell and feel, but we do not need long overnight burns. Not a concern.
Again, we have an efficient home and furnace. House warms up very quickly.

Just want to enjoy the fire and if it takes over the work of the furnace in the process, it’s a bonus.

There is a window there behind where the stove would be so that could help control overheating as well??

 

[begreen]

Based on the insulation and use it sounds like you will be fine with a smaller stove of 1.5cu ft or less.

 

[moresnow]

Better get something with good low end control. Otherwise plan on you and the missus being scantily clad while perusing the tube We have a similar offset from stove/tv/couch. You will love it!

 

[begreen]

The stove operator is the front line control of heat output.

 

[joshuaboston]

if you are going for a small stove... this is my favorite. BUT realize this stove is BRAND NEW on the market with no reviews but the company is top notch.
https://mffire.com/

the stove is called Nova. Personally I really like the look.

 

[begreen]

We have yet to hear from anyone burning either of their stoves. The company is also new on the market so it may take awhile to hear of real world experience.

 

[Ashful]

We have yet to hear from anyone burning either of their stoves. The company is also new on the market so it may take awhile to hear of real world experience.

Especially if you keep stepping on Joshua’s sales pitch. [emoji14]

 

[begreen]

The Nova may be a winner. Hope so. I'm waiting for him to install one so that we get a first hand report.

 

[Hogwildz]

How can a stove new on the market, with no reviews, and one you personally don't own or have ever used, be a personal favorite? Are you a dealer?

Looks like a cube with a window. To each their own.

 

[Adam.weir]

Thanks for the input. Because Im thinking of finding a good used stove, Im finding that there are a lot more medium to big size stoves available. decent smaller stove seem harder to find. If I got something like a Jotul F500, would its mere size radiate heat to the point of blowing me out of the basement. Or do you think I can control a bigger stove to suit a smaller space?

 

[iceman2424]

Otherwise plan on you and the missus being scantily clad while perusing the tube

How is this a problem, again?

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the input. Because Im thinking of finding a good used stove, Im finding that there are a lot more medium to big size stoves available. decent smaller stove seem harder to find. If I got something like a Jotul F500, would its mere size radiate heat to the point of blowing me out of the basement. Or do you think I can control a bigger stove to suit a smaller space?

It's not the best fit for the space as described.

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks for the input. Because Im thinking of finding a good used stove, Im finding that there are a lot more medium to big size stoves available. decent smaller stove seem harder to find. If I got something like a Jotul F500, would its mere size radiate heat to the point of blowing me out of the basement. Or do you think I can control a bigger stove to suit a smaller space?

The heat output is dependent on the load of fuel.You can load it 1/3 to 1/2 or equivalent to a smaller stove firebox load, and it will produce similarly.

 

[Ashful]

While it's true you can "build a small fire in a big stove", there are practical limits to this. You need enough burn rate to sustain secondary combustion. Put just two small splits in the stove, and yes... it will produce very little heat. But it will not be burning cleanly, as intended, as the secondary combustion system will likely not operate.

This is why begreen is saying you want to (roughly) size the stove to the space.

 

[Hogwildz]

While it's true you can "build a small fire in a big stove", there are practical limits to this. You need enough burn rate to sustain secondary combustion. Put just two small splits in the stove, and yes... it will produce very little heat. But it will not be burning cleanly, as intended, as the secondary combustion system will likely not operate.

This is why begreen is saying you want to (roughly) size the stove to the space.

I've burnt 3 small to medium splits in the Summit, with no issued burning clean or achieving temp. This is how I start all my fires from a cold start to get the stove up to temp and get a bed of coals going.
A load of fuel is a load of fuel. The main difference in firebox size is side to side &/or front to back.

 

[Ashful]

I’m not sure what your 3 medium splits are in comparison to the number required to fill your firebox, but if I’m at less than 20% capacity in any of the stoves I’ve burned, it takes damn near forever for the cat to come up to temp. The two splits I described in my prior post would be at least half gone, before my chimney and cat came up to 500F, the required temp for closing the bypass damper. Three medium splits would do better.

That was my point, there is a limit to this “small fire in a big stove” thing. If you disagree, please send a photo of active secondaries on no more than four toothpicks. [emoji14]

 

[kennyp2339]

Just some small concerns that need to be address before any stove is installed in your basement.
1. Make up air, is there a way to install a outside air connection? my concern is the smaller insulated space competing for air if the furnace (forced air I'm assuming) gets turned on or the dryer / bathroom vent is running.
2. Summer time negative stack pressures, aka reverse draft, again when other ventilation is in operation.
3. Chimney install, you going straight up or outside then up? bungalow type home so the overall chimney height needs to be a minimum of 15ft, you may need additional bracing on the roof.

 

[Ashful]

Summer smell is the most common issue I’ve seen from friends who have had stoves in their basement. It is usually resolved by jamming a wad of insulation up into the stove outlet / stove pipe for the summer. Don’t forget to leave a note in the stove to remind you (or anyone else) to remove it before the first fire in the fall.

I believe any make-up air provisions (i.e. OAK) cannot make a positive sealed connection to the stove in a typical basement install, due to the possibility of reversal, if the inlet is higher than the stove connection. I believe this is usually accomplished by simply terminating the inlet near the stove, rather than connecting to it, but there are better experts on this here.

 

[begreen]

I’m not sure what your 3 medium splits are in comparison to the number required to fill your firebox, but if I’m at less than 20% capacity in any of the stoves I’ve burned, it takes damn near forever for the cat to come up to temp. The two splits I described in my prior post would be at least half gone, before my chimney and cat came up to 500F, the required temp for closing the bypass damper. Three medium splits would do better.

That was my point, there is a limit to this “small fire in a big stove” thing. If you disagree, please send a photo of active secondaries on no more than four toothpicks. [emoji14]

3 medium splits will get our 3 cu ft stove up to clean burning temp, though 4 would be better. The insulated firebox seems to help. Just curious, have you owned or heated with an EPA non-cat stove?