Why to buy local

[Greg67]

I purchased a Blaze King Princess November of 2014 with the 10 year combustor warranty from a dealer about 2hrs away from my house. Fast forward to last year when the combustor started failing. At the beginning of August this year I contacted BK about getting a new combustor, they referred me to the dealer where i purchased it. I explained how far away I was and they had BK send a call tag direct for it. We sent it back, have proof of delivery from UPS where it was delivered to Walla, Walla, WA and received by "Queen" and patiently awaited a new one. We waited until 09/30/17 before we contacted BK again by email. No reply. Called 10/03/17 "the person you need is gone to lunch I will have them call you back today." No reply. Called AGAIN 10/05/17 and was told the person I needed wasn't available again and she would have somebody call me back, I asked her if this was the same person that hasn't responded yet and wanted to know exactly how long I should wait before expecting a phone call.

Finally FH called me back and that's where things went downhill. He told me he didn't even know if he had our old one back yet and that he was doing me a "favor". I explained that he hadn't done anything yet except call me back after 3 attempts to contact him. Things went downhill from there. I still don't have a replacement combustor as of 10/13/17. To me the warranty is worthless and I should have purchased a different brand locally so i could have some dealer support. I'm getting ready to BUY a replacement combustor while waiting for FH to "do me a favor" after 2 months, what an idiot. Any way learn from me people and buy local, nobody cares about customer service anymore. I'm going to continue to tell my story everywhere I can, Blaze King has earned it. The best thing I can say is my parents were considering buying a BK stove until this and they pulled the plug. The moral of the story is buy local for better service, no matter the options. I'm stuck with a worthless warranty and no customer service. Please learn from me.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I purchased a Blaze King Princess November of 2014 with the 10 year combustor warranty from a dealer about 2hrs away from my house. Fast forward to last year when the combustor started failing. At the beginning of August this year I contacted BK about getting a new combustor, they referred me to the dealer where i purchased it. I explained how far away I was and they had BK send a call tag direct for it. We sent it back, have proof of delivery from UPS where it was delivered to Walla, Walla, WA and received by "Queen" and patiently awaited a new one. We waited until 09/30/17 before we contacted BK again by email. No reply. Called 10/03/17 "the person you need is gone to lunch I will have them call you back today." No reply. Called AGAIN 10/05/17 and was told the person I needed wasn't available again and she would have somebody call me back, I asked her if this was the same person that hasn't responded yet and wanted to know exactly how long I should wait before expecting a phone call. Finally FH called me back and that's where things went down hill. He told me he didn't even know if he had our old one back yet and that he was doing me a "favor". I explained that he hadn't done anything yet except call me back after 3 attempts to contact him. Things went down hill from there. I still don't have a replacement combustor as of 10/13/17. To me the warranty is worthless and I should have purchased a different brand locally so i could have some dealer support. I'm getting ready to BUY a replacement combustor while waiting for FH to "do me a favor" after 2 months, what an idiot. Any way learn from me people and buy local, nobody cares about customer service anymore. I'm going to continue to tell my story everywhere I can, Blaze King has earned it. The best thing I can say is my parents were considering buying a BK stove until this and they pulled the plug. The moral of the story is buy local for better service, no matter the options. I'm stuck with a worthless warranty and no customer service. Please learn from me.

It sounds like it's taking longer than it should but you neglected to mention the date the old combustor arrived at BK headquarters. It shouldn't matter where you purchased the stove. But combustor replacement is normally a dealer service. The favor they may have been doing you was to handle it directly. However, if it's like talking to a brick wall, arguably, that's not a favor. I'm a little surprised they didn't just have you mail it to the dealer you purchased the stove from. Maybe the terms of your warranty (2014) are different from mine (2017). I think BK does the vast majority of their sales indirectly (through their affiliated dealers) so they might not have a big department for end user satisfaction. BKVP posts here regularly and tries to help customers out but I know sometimes when I ask a question I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. So I know how you feel.

I just read the warranty on my BK Chinook (purchase in June of this year) and it's only good for 6 years. 3 years is free replacement, following years are 40%, 30% and 20% of normal retail price coverage.

I suspect this will get ironed out but do keep us updated.

 

[Blazing]

I purchased a Blaze King Princess November of 2014 with the 10 year combustor warranty from a dealer about 2hrs away from my house. Fast forward to last year when the combustor started failing. At the beginning of August this year I contacted BK about getting a new combustor, they referred me to the dealer where i purchased it. I explained how far away I was and they had BK send a call tag direct for it. We sent it back, have proof of delivery from UPS where it was delivered to Walla, Walla, WA and received by "Queen" and patiently awaited a new one. We waited until 09/30/17 before we contacted BK again by email. No reply. Called 10/03/17 "the person you need is gone to lunch I will have them call you back today." No reply. Called AGAIN 10/05/17 and was told the person I needed wasn't available again and she would have somebody call me back, I asked her if this was the same person that hasn't responded yet and wanted to know exactly how long I should wait before expecting a phone call. Finally FH called me back and that's where things went down hill. He told me he didn't even know if he had our old one back yet and that he was doing me a "favor". I explained that he hadn't done anything yet except call me back after 3 attempts to contact him. Things went down hill from there. I still don't have a replacement combustor as of 10/13/17. To me the warranty is worthless and I should have purchased a different brand locally so i could have some dealer support. I'm getting ready to BUY a replacement combustor while waiting for FH to "do me a favor" after 2 months, what an idiot. Any way learn from me people and buy local, nobody cares about customer service anymore. I'm going to continue to tell my story everywhere I can, Blaze King has earned it. The best thing I can say is my parents were considering buying a BK stove until this and they pulled the plug. The moral of the story is buy local for better service, no matter the options. I'm stuck with a worthless warranty and no customer service. Please learn from me.

If you do a little reading around here I believe you will find BK is known for outstanding customer service. I'm not saying they haven't done wrong in this case but @BKVP looks out for us pretty well around here. I'm sure they will get you straight once he gets wind of this.

 

[Ashful]

Paging @BKVP. He has gone above and beyond, supporting several of us on this site. I am sure he will want to be aware of this situation.

 

[BKVP]

This is 100% unacceptable and I will see it is resolved immediately. My apologies and FH should never state he's doing a "favor.

Greg67, call me on Monday 6:00 a.m. PST and I make this right. Guaranteed.

 

[Blazing]

And BK customer service is proven once again. Wish I could justify a new BK but the one I have just keeps getting the job done.

 

[Greg67]

It sounds like it's taking longer than it should but you neglected to mention the date the old combustor arrived at BK headquarters. It shouldn't matter where you purchased the stove. But combustor replacement is normally a dealer service. The favor they may have been doing you was to handle it directly. However, if it's like talking to a brick wall, arguably, that's not a favor. I'm a little surprised they didn't just have you mail it to the dealer you purchased the stove from. Maybe the terms of your warranty (2014) are different from mine (2017). I think BK does the vast majority of their sales indirectly (through their affiliated dealers) so they might not have a big department for end user satisfaction. BKVP posts here regularly and tries to help customers out but I know sometimes when I ask a question I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. So I know how you feel.

I just read the warranty on my BK Chinook (purchase in June of this year) and it's only good for 6 years. 3 years is free replacement, following years are 40%, 30% and 20% of normal retail price coverage.

I suspect this will get ironed out but do keep us updated.

The original arrived at 9:38am on 8/24/17.

 

[Ashful]

Just to compare the two brands of stoves I’ve owned (multiples of each), I could not talk to anyone at Jotul, ever. They don’t publish their phone number, and if you do manage to find it and call them, the receptionist is instructed that end users are to work they a dealer, and will not pass you on to tech support. The only way to get thru is to fib, and claim you are the dealer, which makes getting a call back from them tricky.

Then there’s BK and Woodstock, both of whom make themselves fully available to the customer. For me, this was a big part of the reason I went BK. I might only need their support twice in the 20 years I’ll likely run these stoves, but it’s a huge advantage to go right to the manufacturer in those rare occasions.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Blaze King-

Get with the program and pay attention to the world around you, circa 2017. Or, die a slow death like all of the other retailers that are not adopting a strategy that embraces their customers at least on par with their dealer network.

How much business are you conceding to your competition? Your perception that your superior product will win the day is mistaken.

At a bare minimum, support your customers needs for the consumables directly. If the dealers lose a little profit, well, that's the world we live in today. It's you or them. Also, redeploy the employee who doesn't return customer calls (especially hearth.com members!) immediately into a job where he never comes in contact with customers again, or at least untill he proves that he cares about his job and your customers.

This story and others like it are now part of the permanent public record for everyone who does a little research before buying.

@BKVP- Much respect, your efforts are world class, what I would expect from a world class organization. Unfortunately, damage has been done, both by the employee, but more importantly, from a business model that values the dealers over your customers.

Show your bosses this thread and post. Or, go spend a bunch of money on consultants who will tell you exactly the same thing.

 

[BKVP]

Blaze King-

Get with the program and pay attention to the world around you, circa 2017. Or, die a slow death like all of the other retailers that are not adopting a strategy that embraces their customers at least on par with their dealer network.

How much business are you conceding to your competition? Your perception that your superior product will win the day is mistaken.

At a bare minimum, support your customers needs for the consumables directly. If the dealers lose a little profit, well, that's the world we live in today. It's you or them. Also, redeploy the employee who doesn't return customer calls (especially hearth.com members!) immediately into a job where he never comes in contact with customers again, or at least untill he proves that he cares about his job and your customers.

This story and others like it are now part of the permanent public record for everyone who does a little research before buying.

@BKVP- Much respect, your efforts are world class, what I would expect from a world class organization. Unfortunately, damage has been done, both by the employee, but more importantly, from a business model that values the dealers over your customers.

Show your bosses this thread and post. Or, go spend a bunch of money on consultants who will tell you exactly the same thing.

At first, I wasn’t going to reply to your post. But then I realized I had to. The employee in the original post is an outstanding employee that made a mistake in not following through on the matter. I pointed out this thread to the employee and he immediately took ownership of the problem and acknowledged he failed to follow through. With all due respect to your observation, he will remain in his position as the 99% nearly ideal employee that he is.

Your past experiences with having to deal with dealers are real. Others here have also had issues from time to time with dealers. I travel more than 200 days a year and spend the rest of the year working on improving our services to the dealers, educating them on our products, regulatory matters current and future. The vast majority are super and have dozens and dozens of visitors each day and leave their businesses with outstanding experiences.

I have posted this before and I will again. This forum is a very refined, small group of avid, experienced wood burners, yourself included. Their participation on this site by members is to help. I learned of this issue because a concerned, helpful minded member pointed it out to me. I appreciate his efforts and those of all members that fulfill the promise to help with each and every visitor to this site.

Incidentally, BKVP is short for my title at the company. I am the guy where the buck stops on these matters.

Thank you for your post and have a great weekend.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

@BKVP- Much respect, your efforts are world class, what I would expect from a world class organization. Unfortunately, damage has been done, both by the employee, but more importantly, from a business model that values the dealers over your customers.

I think your reaction to this is a little overly dramatic realizing that we're dealing with humans here. Obviously, personality conflicts happen, and people (being people) let that affect them. In this case I suspect the BK employee didn't like the customer's attitude (and I'm not saying the customer necessarily had a bad attitude) and, whether conscious or unconscious, put that task on the bottom of their "to do" list where it got lost. I'm not trying to excuse that behavior, and it looks like it has been addressed, but I do understand how these things happen, no one is perfect. A true professional doesn't let personal biases interfere with their representation of their company but people in this world are not perfect. It's the most talented people who tend to fall into this trap of believing you are "above" your customers and to forget the real mission. That's human nature. But to think an occasional gaff like this is going to cause a business like BK to wither and die on the vine is unrealistic. It takes a lot more than that to cause substantial harm to an otherwise upstanding business with well functioning products.

As to BK's business model that "values dealers over customers", I don't think that's true. BK values their customers highly. They know that's what it's all about. It's not a fault of BK that they necessarily depend on their dealer network, it's the unavoidable fact of manufacturing the type of product that most consumers can't (or wont) self-install. BK needs their dealers or they won't have (hardly any) customers. And a woodstove manufacturer can wither and die just as easily, if not more so, by not supporting their dealer network. You may think the product sells itself but, in the real world, sales are still one of the most important and valuable business functions. Without dealers enthusiastically selling your products, sales decline. And how do you get dealers to do this if you're not actively supporting them? They have other brands they can sell. True, online information is much more important these days. But you still need both.

While I think it's always good to hold a business accountable for obvious blunders, blunders are going to happen occasionally because people don't make the best decision every time, the decision that's in their (and their company's) best interest. That's human nature but I haven't seen much indication of a systemic problem with BK. If this type of thing was business as usual it would be a big problem. Because public perception is everything and difficult to turn around.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

At first, I wasn’t going to reply to your post. But then I realized I had to. The employee in the original post is an outstanding employee that made a mistake in not following through on the matter. I pointed out this thread to the employee and he immediately took ownership of the problem and acknowledged he failed to follow through. With all due respect to your observation, he will remain in his position as the 99% nearly ideal employee that he is.

Your past experiences with having to deal with dealers are real. Others here have also had issues from time to time with dealers. I travel more than 200 days a year and spend the rest of the year working on improving our services to the dealers, educating them on our products, regulatory matters current and future. The vast majority are super and have dozens and dozens of visitors each day and leave their businesses with outstanding experiences.

I have posted this before and I will again. This forum is a very refined, small group of avid, experienced wood burners, yourself included. Their participation on this site by members is to help. I learned of this issue because a concerned, helpful minded member pointed it out to me. I appreciate his efforts and those of all members that fulfill the promise to help with each and every visitor to this site.

Incidentally, BKVP is short for my title at the company. I am the guy where the buck stops on these matters.

Thank you for your post and have a great weekend.

Thanks for replying, I was almost certain you would based on your previous attention to important matters here. You're reaction is completely natural for a passionate business person, to a somewhat inflammatory post. And, to be honest, I like to believe that I'd give an employee (read: human being, and probably, friend, at a company with a tight knit business office) a second and third chance. Showing him the post probably got the point across without having to have a difficult conversation. Yes, I've screwed up before.

BK has done a great job of building a network of unpaid emissaries in many of their customers. That's hard to do, and a testament to the product and business. Even though I'm not a customer, when I think of the brand, I immediately have the highest expectations. Again, a monumental achievement.

Additionally, I'm completely aware that the world is full of flaky people, some who become customers, who don't do their part and communicate effectively, and get bent out of shape at the lightest perceived slight. (Note to OP- I'm in no way saying this was you, I have no idea what exactly was said and done).

In fact, BK has done such a good job with the brand, even a non-customer like myself is rooting for the long-term success of the company. Which explains the passionate admonition.

Some business school study shows that every detractor does far more damage than the benefit of every promotor. I'd look up the stats, but this is fun for me, not work.

FYI, regarding your comments about the site, google and all the other search engines link right into it. Many of my web searches regarding stove brands bring me right back here. So, I'd rethink the scope of reach that these sites have. When you have to start relying on millennials to buy your product, they'll be buying or interacting online, or not at all. Most mature businesses fail because they fail to adapt to information like this, and cling tightly to their old business model.

I'm rooting for you personally, BKVP, as well as the company. It may be 5, 10, or more years before I buy another stove, but I want the BK Ashford 50, delivered right to my door, to be available by then. SBI delivered that experience two years ago, and it took BK completely out of the running.

 

[blades]

Gliches happen - soon to be resolved, hopefully as indicated by previous posts. Me I run into this also, glitches come from both sides. As it is just me I can't even give an excuse, well maybe I can play on old age ( but that"s a cheap shot) . Me I have been playing with a pension plan administration co. for 7 + months. Yesterday I was told it is their busy season- and that I just started this inquiry the previous Friday ( at which time I was told I would be contacted Mon or Tue of this past week didn't happen but knew that going in) , which of course at that point Mr. Nice Guy morphed into something less than pleasant. Similar to the op I guess. It is particularly annoying ( and I am mincing words here)

 

[jetsam]

I don't have a bad thing to say about BK's customer service- but I had a bad enough experience buying my first BK that I will probably only ever buy used ones from here on out, unless they change their business model to allow direct sales to consumers.

So you don't feel that the hardcore burners on hearth represent the bulk of your customer base, and that the average customer needs a local dealer for the product. Undersood- but why not add BK itself to the dealer network so that people can buy a stove directly? It sounds like you're not taking much in the way of sales away from the dealers, and it'd be a big deal to some of us- even if you marked up the prices to dealer levels.

Not that I plan on buying a new stove from anyone foe 10 years or more anyway, but still.

 

[Ashful]

Meh... these stoves as so far above anything else I can buy, I'm not going to let buying options (dealer vs. direct) have any sway over putting a BK in my house.

 

[jetsam]

Meh... these stoves as so far above anything else I can buy, I'm not going to let buying options (dealer vs. direct) have any sway over putting a BK in my house.

That's why I do care about the dealer network enough to whine about it; they have me over a barrel here.

 

[Poindexter]

If i was going to get a tattoo of a business logo, it wouldnt be harley davidson or toyota or chevrolet, or pontiac.

The only two possible competitors for square inches of my skin are Lie-Nielsen and Blaze King. Customer service mishaps on great high quality product can be overcome. No amount of flawless service can compensate for garbage product.

 

[jetsam]

If i was going to get a tattoo of a business logo, it wouldnt be harley davidson or toyota or chevrolet, or pontiac.

The only two possible competitors for square inches of my skin are Lie-Nielsen and Blaze King. Customer service mishaps on great high quality product can be overcome. No amount of flawless service can compensate for garbage product.

Well, you said it, so I had to google it.

Jeez, that is a thing.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Meh... these stoves as so far above anything else I can buy, I'm not going to let buying options (dealer vs. direct) have any sway over putting a BK in my house.

That's what I've heard, but this won't be the case forever. How close do you live to your dealer compared to the population of potential stove customers?

And, are you a millennial? Do you think that your kids are going to be like you are when they are your age? Hell, name one other person like you, today? This is meant mainly as a compliment, not an insult (singular?).

I think you'll admit that you aren't the best test case for what an average consumer is today, let alone in 10-20 years. Even more so in this very niche market of wood heaters. Unless a company can get by on selling very few units.

I believe the one factor that provides the largest moat is that the market overall is small enough to inhibit most entrepreneurs, except for the ones that are passionate about heating with wood. Why build a better mousetrap if only a few people have mice?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

If i was going to get a tattoo of a business logo, it wouldnt be harley davidson or toyota or chevrolet, or pontiac.

The only two possible competitors for square inches of my skin are Lie-Nielsen and Blaze King. Customer service mishaps on great high quality product can be overcome. No amount of flawless service can compensate for garbage product.

You are right about garbage products, but eventually there will be an equal or better option available. And, if those options have a far better business model, it's probably game over. A far better business model with an average product hurts margins. Remember vhs vs betamax?

And, I will say the same thing about you that I did about Ashful. You are a unique person who probably does not represent anything close to a mass market consumer, made even more unique because of the niche market that you are passionate about. I mean, really, even if you hadn't conducted the Poindexter Ph.D course on solar wood kilns, your screen name alone suggests that you know you are special, unique. I personally far prefer unique individuals, and the world doesn't advance without us. But, I'm also not trying to make a living selling stoves.

I look forward to seeing your BK tattoo. Born to burn! Or, should it be Born to smoulder?

 

[RobbieB]

Forget ink, it's a stove. It should be branded on with a red hot iron.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Forget ink, it's a stove. It should be branded on with a red hot iron.

Right you are. Then you know you have a powerful "brand".

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Forget ink, it's a stove. It should be branded on with a red hot iron.

I think you mean it's a stove BRAND. All the more reason to brand it on!

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Forget ink, it's a stove. It should be branded on with a red hot iron.

Also, that would be a good gag accessory for the Blaze King website. It's a special combustor shield with built in BK logo in the middle. Once it's heat-soaked it's removable from the stove with the included tongs and ready for branding!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If the name was cast into the doors of stoves I'd have a few different names branded into my forearms over the years. I haven't had a stove that hasn't kissed me at least once on a reload.