WiFi T-Stat for pellet stoves?

[Don2222]

Hello

Someone I know asked if his Nest T-Stat would work well with his Auto-On/Off wood pellet stove. I finally called Nest support after wading through online material with no detail. The tech stated it is a 24 volt T-stat, not a millivolt T-Stat and no Swing type setting to prevent short cycling. Even though with a 24 volt transformer hooked up it could possibly work, it is not recommended for pellet stoves with full on/off operation.

Therefore, has anyone found a good WiFi T-Stat that does not cost a fortune that will work well with a pellet stove and not short cycle?

In my research, I found many current wifi T-Stats are only 24 volts except this very pricy one from Home Depot!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LockStat...ee-iPhone-App-LS-90i/203164774#specifications

Of Course you need the Internet router connection module too!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LockStat...ee-iPhone-App-LS-USNAP/203164773#.UecS__mCmcM

Reviews show problems! So wait for Rev B ! ! !
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LockStat...ee-iPhone-App-LS-USNAP/203164773#BVRRWidgetID

From their manual
The Comfort Settings on the LS-90 allow you to maintain consistent comfort with the highest levels of temperature control precision, accuracy and energy efficiency.
HVAC CYCLING: This feature allows you to set the desired variance in temperature between the LS-90 setting and the room temperature required before the heating or cooling system will turn on—from 0.5° to 2.0° F (.25° to 1° C). For example, if HVAC CYCLING is set to 2.0° F and the LS-90 is set to 70°F, the heat cycle will not start until the room temperature drops to 68°. Similarly, the cooling system will not kick-in until the room temperature increases to 72°F. The HVAC shuts off at the target.

Click Pic to Enlarge

 

[smwilliamson]

Look at embee, Honeywell, radio thermostat ...gosh; there are a lot to choose from these days. I would t worry about short cycling with a pellet stove so m h they take a while to heat up and to cool down. I've run my Whitfield advantage off the Nest and it did a pretty good job.

 

[smwilliamson]

Neat 2.0 has the * input so you can use the primary central and the stove together with the g wire circulating the fans in a air system.

 

[Don2222]

Look at embee, Honeywell, radio thermostat ...gosh; there are a lot to choose from these days. I would t worry about short cycling with a pellet stove so m h they take a while to heat up and to cool down. I've run my Whitfield advantage off the Nest and it did a pretty good job.

The old Whitfield Advantage is unlike most other stoves because it works with a 24 Volt T-Stat and only has Hi/Lo mode.
Embee, Honeywell and others like Nest are also 24 Volt with no SWING setting. Most newer stoves are Millivolt and with an Auto-On/Off mode really do need the Swing setting so they will not short cycle. Short cycle means the T-Stat will shut the stove down before it finished the Start Cycle which can take up to 15 mins.

From the old Whitfield Manual
A 24 volt wall thermostat and 20 feet of 18-gage thermostat
wire is included in your stove’s accessory package.
It is recommended that the thermostat and thermostat
wire be installed by an authorized Lennox Hearth Products
dealer.
If operating your stove with the wall thermostat,
adjust the HEAT OUTPUT selector button to the
desired demand mode (#2 through #5 on the HEAT
OUTPUT selector button). Next, adjust the wall
mounted thermostat to the desired heat and your
stove will automatically switch between a demand
mode and a pilot mode.

 

[velvetfoot]

the T-Stat will shut the stove down before it finished the Start Cycle which can take up to 15 mins.

I have the Ecobee SmartSI for my oil boiler and really like it. I don't see anything in the documentation that refers to the above. It mentions short cycling due to the heat differential temperature setting-the difference between set temp and current temp. You can set minimum run times, and a bunch of other stuff mostly related to heat pumps.

It says it doesn't do millivolt.

 

[Delta-T]

pretty sure every whitfield used the 24V.

 

[Don2222]

I have the Ecobee SmartSI for my oil boiler and really like it. I don't see anything in the documentation that refers to the above. It mentions short cycling due to the heat differential temperature setting-the difference between set temp and current temp. You can set minimum run times, and a bunch of other stuff mostly related to heat pumps.

It says it doesn't do millivolt.

Well, that is good info. Of course a millivolt T-Stat will definately work and be easy to hook up without needing a 24 volt transformer in some cases.

I checked the manual for the Ecobee and so far, I see this may be a solution. There is a button type battery to drive the T-stat's electronics. I do prefer the AA batteries myself but that is easier than trying to supply 24 volts if you do not have it. The interface does need power and it can be powered by 24 volts from the heating system. I know my oil boiler has a 24 volt pony relay to supply power to the 24v Taco circulator pumps. However the interface box can be powered by a AC 120 to 12v adapter that can be plugged into any wall outlet. This is the key to making a 24vac T-Stat work.

I also saw the setup for short cycling which is what I want to see for a pellet stove's Auto-On/Off mode. The setting is 240 to 900 seconds which translates to 4 to 15 minutes so looks like 15 mins sounds like it would be the pellet stove setting for On/Off mode.

The next step is the connection to the pellet stove. I will download the Ecobee manual and check it out. (Enlarge it enough so I can see it!) LOL
I just downloaded the manual and enlarged it to 100%

Ok, Just connect to Rh and W on the Interface module and all Done! So the final answer is Yes, this one will work well with a pellet stove! The jumper does not matter if connected or not, I just leave it in there!

Looks like the Ecobee is the Pellet Stove WiFi winner because it will still work on a Whitfield and all other pellet stoves!
See
http://www.amazon.com/ecobee-EB-STAT-02-Thermostat-Heat-2-Screen/dp/B004150PJG

Simple. LOL

Thanks for your help VelvetFoot

See Diagram below
Click to Enlarge:

 

[velvetfoot]

Wow, the price on the Smart stat cam down. I settled for the Si, but it's been great.

 

[RCCARPS]

I have been looking into this for awhile. I currently use Honeywell thermostats that I can access remotely using their redlink gateway for my normal HVAC system. I have my house zoned out, so I can view/change all of the zones independently via the web or ipad/android apps. I was hoping to find a redlink enabled thermostat that is millivolt capable to run my Harman that I can link to Honeywells internet app. They just released an updated thermostat that is called the Vision Pro 8000 with Redlink. According to their specs, it appears its Millivolt capable (listed below).

In order to get on the internet you will need to buy their redlink gateway (about $100) and have a C-wire running to the stat. Since my Harman (or any pellet stoves?) doesn't provide C-wire 24volt power to the stat you will need to buy a small transformer for about $10 to power it.

Was thinking about researching it further and possibly giving it a try later this summer, closer to the heating season.

VisionPro 8000 Thermostat http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/new/68-0312.pdf

Redlink/Internet access info http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/accessories/total_connect/50-1786.pdf



Electrical ratings
Terminal Voltage (50/60 Hz) Max. Current Rating
W - OB 18 to 30 VAC and 750 mVDC 1.00A
Y (cooling) 18 to 30 VAC 1.00A
G (fan) 18 to 30 VAC 0.50A
W2 - Aux (heating) 18 to 30 VAC 0.60A
Y2 (cooling) 18 to 30 VAC 0.60A
A-L/A (output) 18 to 30 VAC 1.00A
U1/U1 30 VAC max. 0.50A



RC

 

[Don2222]

Wow, the price on the Smart stat came down. I settled for the Si, but it's been great.

Where did you get yours? Is there any monthly fees? I hate monthly fees!

I like the weather stuff in there, sounds like a great T-Stat!

Is there any special function you like? Also can you run it manual without setting up the program for each day?

 

[Don2222]

I have been looking into this for awhile. I currently use Honeywell thermostats that I can access remotely using their redlink gateway for my normal HVAC system. I have my house zoned out, so I can view/change all of the zones independently via the web or ipad/android apps. I was hoping to find a redlink enabled thermostat that is millivolt capable to run my Harman that I can link to Honeywells internet app. They just released an updated thermostat that is called the Vision Pro 8000 with Redlink. According to their specs, it appears its Millivolt capable (listed below).

In order to get on the internet you will need to buy their redlink gateway (about $100) and have a C-wire running to the stat. Since my Harman (or any pellet stoves?) doesn't provide C-wire 24volt power to the stat you will need to buy a small transformer for about $10 to power it.

Was thinking about researching it further and possibly giving it a try later this summer, closer to the heating season.

VisionPro 8000 Thermostat http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/new/68-0312.pdf

Redlink/Internet access info http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/accessories/total_connect/50-1786.pdf

RC

Sounds like the new Vision Pro will also work for pellet stoves but it still needs a "Swing" Setting or "Min On Time" setting to prevent short cycling , you may want to check that first!

 

[RCCARPS]

Sounds like the new Vision Pro will also work for pellet stoves but it still needs a "Swing" Setting or "Min On Time" setting to prevent short cycling , you may want to check that first!

Don,

Did look into that originally. The best I could find was the ability to limit the number of cycles per hour. Can be set from 1-12 per hour. Could set it to 2 or 3 cycles to prevent short cycling.

First stage heat
cycle rate (CPH= cycles per hour)
5 Gas or oil furnaces of less than 90% efficiency
1 Steam or gravity systems
3 Hot water systems & furnaces of 90%+ efficiency
9 Electric furnaces
[Other options: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 CPH]


RC

 

[RCCARPS]

Don,

I may be mistaken, but the Honeywell thermostat that Harman recommends (RTH230B) does not have a swing setting adjustment. You can however program cycles per hour on it.

RC

 

[Don2222]

Don,

Did look into that originally. The best I could find was the ability to limit the number of cycles per hour. Can be set from 1-12 per hour. Could set it to 2 or 3 cycles to prevent short cycling.

First stage heat
cycle rate (CPH= cycles per hour)
5 Gas or oil furnaces of less than 90% efficiency
1 Steam or gravity systems
3 Hot water systems & furnaces of 90%+ efficiency
9 Electric furnaces
[Other options: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 CPH]


RC

Thanks for pointing that out, They sure make it confusing for us! LOL
Yes, if you set the CPH to 2 cycles per hour that would give 1 cycle for 30 mins which would alow 15 mins for the start cycle and 15 mins for the shutdown cycle which is perfect for our Harman stoves.

 

[RCCARPS]

Well it looks like I may give the new Vision Pro a try. I already have the redlink gateway and a few extra 24volt transformers lying around.

Will post results whenever I get to ordering/installing it.

RC

 

[Don2222]

Well it looks like I may give the new Vision Pro a try. I already have the redlink gateway and a few extra 24volt transformers lying around.

Will post results whenever I get to ordering/installing it.

RC

Cool!

 

[Don2222]

Here is a nice Ecobee VS Nest comparison from a guy that owned both!
http://www.amazon.com/ecobee-EB-STA...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

You can guess which one he favored!

 

[smwilliamson]

Don, looking to use a M55 with Wifi, tried setting up a honeywell yesterday with poor results. The Ecobee can use a wall type power adapter, yes? How do we adapt to the stove which is looking for millivolt open and close signal?

 

[movemaine]

I'd use the Nest myself - that thing is beautiful:
http://nest.com/

 

[Don2222]

I'd use the Nest myself - that thing is beautiful:
http://nest.com/

Very Nice!

Does the nest T-Stat have any setting to prevent short cycling?


P.S
Very nice pellet comparison tool!

 

[jtakeman]

Does the nest T-Stat have any setting to prevent short cycling?

Looks like they have whats called a maintenance band. With a of about 1ºF/.5ºC
http://support.nest.com/article/Why...ture-is-above-or-below-the-target-temperature

 

[Don2222]

Looks like they have whats called a maintenance band. With a of about 1ºF/.5ºC
http://support.nest.com/article/Why...ture-is-above-or-below-the-target-temperature

Yes, thanks Jay. Looks like 1.4 Degree swing for heating. A little low compared to other T-Stats made for pellet stoves but looks like it will work?

"So Nest has a maintenance band of 1ºF (0.6ºC) above and below the target temperature for cooling and 0.7ºF (0.4ºC) above and below for heating. That means Nest will switch your system on when the room temperature is around 1ºF away from your target temperature, then it’ll run your system until the temperature is slightly beyond your target temp."

 

[RCCARPS]

I have been looking into this for awhile. I currently use Honeywell thermostats that I can access remotely using their redlink gateway for my normal HVAC system. I have my house zoned out, so I can view/change all of the zones independently via the web or ipad/android apps. I was hoping to find a redlink enabled thermostat that is millivolt capable to run my Harman that I can link to Honeywells internet app. They just released an updated thermostat that is called the Vision Pro 8000 with Redlink. According to their specs, it appears its Millivolt capable (listed below). In order to get on the internet you will need to buy their redlink gateway (about $100) and have a C-wire running to the stat. Since my Harman (or any pellet stoves?) doesn't provide C-wire 24volt power to the stat you will need to buy a small transformer for about $10 to power it. Was thinking about researching it further and possibly giving it a try later this summer, closer to the heating season. VisionPro 8000 Thermostat http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/new/68-0312.pdf Redlink/Internet access info http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/accessories/total_connect/50-1786.pdf Electrical ratings Terminal Voltage (50/60 Hz) Max. Current Rating W - OB 18 to 30 VAC and 750 mVDC 1.00A Y (cooling) 18 to 30 VAC 1.00A G (fan) 18 to 30 VAC 0.50A W2 - Aux (heating) 18 to 30 VAC 0.60A Y2 (cooling) 18 to 30 VAC 0.60A A-L/A (output) 18 to 30 VAC 1.00A U1/U1 30 VAC max. 0.50A RC

Just pulled the trigger on the new Honeywell VisionPro8000 thermostat for my Accentra insert. Since I already have remote access/internet capability on my 3 zoned HVAC system that runs Honeywell Redlink products it was a no brainer to add this.

https://customer.honeywell.com/en-U...category=&rank=&v1=Sort.1.Product.Rank&asc=1#

Should be delivered early next week and if I find time Ill install it by next weekend. Will provide pics/report then.

RC