Hi. I was talking to a wood stove dealer today and she said that after May 1, 2020 all new wood burning stoves sold will have to be catalytic stoves to meet EPA requirements. She also said that the catalysts would cost about 700 dollars. Is any of this true? Sounds crazy.
Will all new wood burning stoves be catalytic after May 1, 2020?
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Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Here is the list of all 2020 approved heaters.
Note that a LOT are non catalytic.
Cat stoves have been around for decades though and many of us prefer them for several reasons. The catalyst normally lasts about 12000 hours and the one I just bought for my stove yesterday cost 209$ shipped.
Gooseduck
Member
Easy Livin’ 3000
Minister of Fire
Sounds like she is selling, HARD, to move some stoves they have in inventory. Not ethical.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Yes, in my experience and that of many others across different brands. Manufacturers rate them for 10,000 to 12,000 as well. Some people take 10 years to burn their stove 12,000 hours and some do it in 2 years. Also, some people just don't care about the dead or mostly dead cat and just keep running it dirty. Some people change them even earlier because a young cat is a healthy cat.
I have both cat and noncat stoves so I acknowledge that a cat stove isn't always the right tool but when they fit the application they are pretty nice.
Gooseduck
Member
Ok. I am really enjoying it so far. Gives great heat an super efficient. I’m probably gonna run quite a bit here it’s cold lol. I see them on amazon here for ceramic 489$. Canadian. I will keep an eye on it. Basically picking up tips from guys on here. Zero complaints on the stove.
I have been curious about this. What is the benefit to a catalytic stove vs a non cat stove? Seems like a non cat stove is better because you don't have to worry about the catalyst. Thanks.
Because the cat which is what is doing most of the heating runs at a much more even temp than noncats.
This is was certainly true for our Castine. It was highly radiant and we had a noticeable room temp swings with it. The opposite has been true with the cast-iron clad Alderlea. Heating has been very even with much less room temperature swing.
weatherguy
Minister of Fire
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
One problem I'd imagine would be the jacket holding more heat in the box, sending more up the flue as a result. The blower might counter that, but it would heat up the room more of course..
I don't think there's any relation there. Flue temps are not stove jacket dependent.
Bad LP
Minister of Fire
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
If heat can't get out of the stove as fast, more of it is going to leave via the flue. You can swing open the trivets and stove top temp will drop as the heat leaves it faster.
I haven't looked to see if there is a corresponding drop in flue temps when I open the trivets, but I bet there is. You'd be able to see it better than I would, with your digital flue probe..
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jetsam
Minister of Fire
If you want to read a thousand pages of cat vs. noncat debate, it is all archived here.
They both work, and anyone who says that only one type is good is trying to sell you something.
If you heat only with wood, all year round, or just need long burn times and low heat output, you want a cat. If you only burn on higher burn rates, you want a noncat. If you're like most people and fall in between, you should read about it and pick one, but they both work fine.
I grew up with smoke dragons (no secondary burn at all), and I can hardly believe the difference between that and modern stoves.
Someone who says that all stoves will be cats and all cats will cost $700 in a couple months probably also wants to tell you that Australia is a fictional continent made up by the CIA lizard people to keep you from going to look for the secret wall that keeps the water from running off the flat earth.
They both work, and anyone who says that only one type is good is trying to sell you something.
If you heat only with wood, all year round, or just need long burn times and low heat output, you want a cat. If you only burn on higher burn rates, you want a noncat. If you're like most people and fall in between, you should read about it and pick one, but they both work fine.
I grew up with smoke dragons (no secondary burn at all), and I can hardly believe the difference between that and modern stoves.
Someone who says that all stoves will be cats and all cats will cost $700 in a couple months probably also wants to tell you that Australia is a fictional continent made up by the CIA lizard people to keep you from going to look for the secret wall that keeps the water from running off the flat earth.
The problem with that reasoning is most modern stoves are jacketed in some way and they can all run well at lower flue temps than old smoke dragons could. There is allot more to it than that. Jacketed stoves are just more convective than radiant.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
They keep getting better.
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jetsam
Minister of Fire
Fuel-injected cars were also usually terrible at first.
If you swore them off forever back then, now you'd have to walk to work.
I suspect non cat woodstove manufacturers can still make some small improvements in wood combustion. The low hanging fruit has definitely been picked. Some stove builders are using the word “Hybrid” to describe their wood burners. I don’t think they are hybrid but what about a stove with secondary air and a catalyst. That would be hybrid. In that situation a catalyst might last a lot longer. But....I’m no expert on catalysts.
Mech e
Feeling the Heat
Having a jacketed stove, I have asked myself this very question. I think it is possible that the jacket does raise the firebox temperature. This I believe is due to the jacket reducing radiation to the room from the firebox surfaces where the jacket is present. Assuming there is a decent gap and venting between the jacket and firebox, convection to the air should be about the same.
Adding an air mover will significantly increase the transfer of heat from the stove surface to the air, decreasing the firebox temperature.
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