Will this be the Dark Winter that our President referred to?

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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
I keep hearing reference to it. Fuel prices are spiking up, food is too and shortages of basic necessities like toilet paper seem to be happening. Will this be the 'Dark Winter that Biden referred to or will it be a normal one? I'm on the fence but being a closet prepper I'm also prepared for that eventuality. How about you?
 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,529
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
Shortages will only occur if people go and panic buy at the stores again, obviously there isn't enough inventory for everyone to go and buy a years worth of goods at one time. If everyone continues to shop as normal there will be no major issues.

Unfortunately there needs to be a concerted effort in the media and social media to ensure panic can't take hold should this begin to occur. The UK in the past weeks is a prime example, a relatively small event triggered the fear of petrol shortages, the media and social media quickly spread the fear and everyone went almost at once to purchase a sizable amount of fuel, ensuring a fuel shortage did occur.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Problem is the media here in the states relies solely on sensationalism and not of facts.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
The biggest threat to society right now may be that for profit media conglomerates all are trying to one up each other with the latest drama. If there isn't one, it is manufactured. This applies to TV, radio, streaming (screaming) news, and social media. They are all trying to one up each other with the latest "Breaking News"! Reinstituting the Fairness Doctrine would help quell some of this noise.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
I agree 100%. Being constantly bombarded with half truths and sensationalism makes it all that much harder to extract the truth from fiction.

It was so much easier prior to social media and the net to actually have an opinion about something. Today, the media wants to force feed you with their agenda's, one of the main reasons I prefer forums like this versus mainstream media.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,696
central pa
I agree 100%. Being constantly bombarded with half truths and sensationalism makes it all that much harder to extract the truth from fiction.

It was so much easier prior to social media and the net to actually have an opinion about something. Today, the media wants to force feed you with their agenda's, one of the main reasons I prefer forums like this versus mainstream media.
I agree somewhat. But the internet also gives us easy access to a huge amount of information. If one cares to verify the info they are looking at it can actually cut through the nonsense we are fed.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Problem is, you have to do some digging, IOW due diligence to separate fact from fiction and today fiction abounds. Therein lies the issue. Most people take what they read on the net as factual. Kind of like this vaccination thing. I understand that people don't like being forced to vaccinate and I feel it should be voluntary. Having said that, because of my compromised immune system I'm vaccinated and have already got my booster shot. Vaccination needs to be by choice, not government mandate. I have an issue with that.

Do I fault or demean those who don't want to get vaccinated, not at all.

Just read in our local print paper that economists are predicting food shortages this winter along with sharp increases in the cost of meat, poultry and fish.

Getting incrementally more expensive to maintain a standard of living that we are accustomed to today.

One bright spot for me at least is my very low cost of heat in the winter. I might not be eating steak often, but I won't be cold either.
 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Sep 18, 2019
1,529
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
The internet is a double edged sword, anyone looking for fact can find oodles of information to make a decisions with, the problem is there is also so much biased/untrue information that people can find "evidence" to support any preconceived idea they may possess. Unfortunately I'm finding more and more people are the latter these days, I left Facebook years ago due to this and only check in for updates on family events, and have recently departed another forum I have been a part of for years because it has become a quagmire of conspiracy theories, half truths and downright lies.

Unfortunately society seems to becoming more divided and intolerant, which is the opposite of what should have happened with the universal access to knowledge on electronic platforms. Large media and social media platforms have realized that hyperbole, drama, fear and anger sell ads and increase view counts, and make their profits at the cost of dividing friends, families and neighbors.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,552
Long Island NY
I agree 100%. Being constantly bombarded with half truths and sensationalism makes it all that much harder to extract the truth from fiction.

It was so much easier prior to social media and the net to actually have an opinion about something. Today, the media wants to force feed you with their agenda's, one of the main reasons I prefer forums like this versus mainstream media.
I think it's not only forcefeeding - social media works the way it does because people like/subscribe/read/... mostly the things they agree with. That reinforces beliefs. Also incorrect beliefs.
And it does not expose one to the opposite viewpoint - which either may convince you that you were wrong, or sharpen your arguments how you are right.

With only a few tv channels and newspapers, one is automatically exposed to more contrarian views. In my view this helps create a middle of the road attitude, rather than reinforcing ones "out of the middle" beliefs into a stage where one believes that that "out of the middle" that one has been reading (see subscribe/like feeds) for a long time IS actually the balanced real (middle of the road) situation.

I've always made it a point to listen to both NPR AND Sean H./Rush L., Fox AND MSNBC. etc. Not because I agree with them - in fact, I often find myself disagreeing with all mentioned above - not on everything, but on many things -, but because disagreeing makes me think about why I disagree, reassess whether I am right or whether new data suggest I'm not.

To me it's not force feeding, it's choosing certain channels, knowing that channels are rather monochromatic these days.
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
4,168
SW Virginia
Unfortunately society seems to becoming more divided and intolerant, which is the opposite of what should have happened with the universal access to knowledge on electronic platforms.
I've been wondering if this is true lately - does better access to information necessarily bring us together? I'm not sure it does.
I think there was some complacent bliss inherent in our ways of getting information in the past - slower and from fewer sources.
It was also much harder to make your opinions known anonymously. Unfortunately, there are many trolls out that live to set a low bar for public discourse. As with many things, the lowest common denominator has an unduly negative impact on things.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
I've always made it a point to listen to both NPR AND Sean H./Rush L., Fox AND MSNBC. etc. Not because I agree with them - in fact, I often find myself disagreeing with all mentioned above - not on everything, but on many things -, but because disagreeing makes me think about why I disagree, reassess whether I am right or whether new data suggest I'm not.
I do the same thing actually. I try to get a wide stance viewpoint and then base my decisions and opinions on that. Good example is the vax thing. You have one faction that is demanding the everyone get the jab and another saying the jab is worthless. I'm somewhere in the middle.

I believe the issue with a good percentage of the anti-vaxxers is, they don't want to be forced to vaccinate. I don't blame them at all. We supposedly live in a free society and that flies in the face of a free society. That and all the constant information and disinformation swirling around the vaccines. Every day it seems like more information and disinformation surfaces that makes the decision to get vaccinated even harder.

In my case it was not a choice, but a requirement as I'm immune compromised. Covid, for me is a death sentence and I really want to 'hang around' a while longer...lol
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
Vaccination mandates are far from new. They have been imposed for general public safety for a long time and still are for example, before a child can enter public schools in most areas. It's why smallpox and polio are not a daily threat. This is not about personal freedoms. One of the bad sides of the internet is that it has given the microphone to the narcissists. It, along with cable news, has changed the national dialog to all about ME, instead of US. It used to be that personal sacrifice for the good of the country was a noble thing. Now everything is about imposing on one's "personal freedom" which is ironic, considering what one has given up to fly, or drive a car, etc. Got your seatbelt fastened, been x-rayed by TSA?
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Being as old as I am, I still remember going with my dad and mom to the local high school and getting my Polio vaccine on the sugar cube. Everyone did it with no whining. My late mother in law had polio, not a pretty thing.

Like I said ( I believe I did at least), I fail to understand why people are so against the vaccine.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
Yes, and you noted the reason, massive disinformation campaigns, both on the internet, but also on some streaming and cable networks. The tragedy of this is when someone becomes so polarized that common sense doesn't kick in and they take family members, friends and themselves to the grave with this misguided belief.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
Facebook's (and therefore Twitter and Instagram) algorithms that percolate the most posted item to the top of the feed is part of the problem. It allows a bad actor to continually throw mud up against the wall, no matter how wrong it is, and let's it gain momentum. Coincidentally, Facebook servers are offline right now.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,552
Long Island NY
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peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
7,316
Northern NH
I was in the high school during the first arab oil embargo. Lots of Doom and Gloom pre world wide web./ Any "expert" could get on TV and newsprint with prediction of the world getting worse. Peak Oil was big news. Folks were prepping for the SHTF scenario. Fast forward to Y2K, same experts on the news and on the early days of the internet. The media was hyping it and their advertisers were making a lot of money selling things like generators and dehydrated food. No matter what,the media comes down to getting eyeballs, Facebook has just optimized the method of attracting more of them.
 

tlc1976

Minister of Fire
Oct 7, 2012
1,046
Northwest Lower Michigan
Facebook's (and therefore Twitter and Instagram) algorithms that percolate the most posted item to the top of the feed is part of the problem. It allows a bad actor to continually throw mud up against the wall, no matter how wrong it is, and let's it gain momentum. Coincidentally, Facebook servers are offline right now.
That and their algorithms that basically limit your online viewing window based on certain factors. People believe things because they are not shown any different. Last year I watched The Social Dilemma, it explained a lot.

So far we are holding steady at least what I use. Pellets are the same price as last year, and gas is down a dime and what it was basically since this spring, 3.20 give or take. Haven’t checked propane since I’m not down enough for a minimum delivery, and no natural gas in my area.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
93,801
South Puget Sound, WA
The daily media-created drama constantly takes one’s eyes and mind off of big picture questions and issues that need to be thought about, discussed, and addressed. Three days after a national disaster they are back selling soap and a new outrage. This helps nothing but their bank accounts.
 

Bad LP

Minister of Fire
Nov 28, 2014
2,001
Northern Maine
Vaccination mandates are far from new. They have been imposed for general public safety for a long time and still are for example, before a child can enter public schools in most areas. It's why smallpox and polio are not a daily threat. This is not about personal freedoms. One of the bad sides of the internet is that it has given the microphone to the narcissists. It, along with cable news, has changed the national dialog to all about ME, instead of US. It used to be that personal sacrifice for the good of the country was a noble thing. Now everything is about imposing on one's "personal freedom" which is ironic, considering what one has given up to fly, or drive a car, etc. Got your seatbelt fastened, been x-rayed by TSA?
The simple fact is those vaccines had full, real world testing that were studied for years. If the current vax had the same oversight it wouldn't have the push back. If the politics were removed and biased reporting was not be pushed... If that midget soap box standing Dr Fuchi wasn't lining his pockets with the politicians we might have more faith.

Ya, we needed our shots and scars on out left arms to do a lot of things in the 60's but the testing was a lot more trustworthy IMO.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,552
Long Island NY
The simple fact is those vaccines had full, real world testing that were studied for years. If the current vax had the same oversight it wouldn't have the push back. If the politics were removed and biased reporting was not be pushed... If that midget soap box standing Dr Fuchi wasn't lining his pockets with the politicians we might have more faith.

Ya, we needed our shots and scars on out left arms to do a lot of things in the 60's but the testing was a lot more trustworthy IMO.
That might have been understandable half a year ago.
At this point these vaccines have been used by hundreds and hundreds of millions of people. And without any significant side effects. While initial hesitance can be rationalized (tho it was not needed), hesitance at this point can not.
 

MTY

Feeling the Heat
Jan 9, 2019
499
Idaho
The rational of using a year plus or minus of data to prove a point is patently stupid. How many years did people ingest asbestos prior to symptoms developing. The examples of serious health issues not appearing for years are boundless.
 

Fingerlakes Fireplace

Burning Hunk
Jan 9, 2017
188
Upstate NY
I agree 100%. Being constantly bombarded with half truths and sensationalism makes it all that much harder to extract the truth from fiction.

It was so much easier prior to social media and the net to actually have an opinion about something. Today, the media wants to force feed you with their agenda's, one of the main reasons I prefer forums like this versus mainstream media.
Do you realize this forum is censored????
If you do not agree with the moderator, you are gone.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
4,552
Long Island NY
The rational of using a year plus or minus of data to prove a point is patently stupid. How many years did people ingest asbestos prior to symptoms developing. The examples of serious health issues not appearing for years are boundless.

The biotechnology on which these (Pfizer and Moderna) are based has decades of history. Not just a year.

And the J&J vaccine is more classical.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
28,696
central pa
The simple fact is those vaccines had full, real world testing that were studied for years. If the current vax had the same oversight it wouldn't have the push back. If the politics were removed and biased reporting was not be pushed... If that midget soap box standing Dr Fuchi wasn't lining his pockets with the politicians we might have more faith.

Ya, we needed our shots and scars on out left arms to do a lot of things in the 60's but the testing was a lot more trustworthy IMO.
What is wrong with the testing of the covid vaccines?

These types of vaccines have been used for decades there is absolutely no reason to expect any side effects different from any other vaccines of a similar type.
 
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