Wondering what size woodstove would be appropriate for our old farmhouse

[AmazingGraceDairy]

As other folks have said . . . or asked . . . there may be some other alternatives . . . and some good questions have been asked (i.e. need for a rear vent, are you truly married to the idea of an ash drawer, are you sure you wouldn't consider a stove with a cat, etc.)

I will say if budget is truly an issue you should look at Englander, Napoleon and Regency woodstoves to see if any of these would suit your needs as they are relatively no-frills, but hard working woodstoves.

If you want something a little fancier that should check off every box you could go with the Jotul Oslo or F-600 . . . the Oslo can be run with either a rear or top vent and it has a functional ash drawer that I use all the time. It also burns quite well and is near bullet-proof (much like the old Ashley) and in my case I would guess I'm heating 95% of the winter here in Maine with my woodstove (the oil boiler is relegated to stand by duty if I am away from the home for an extended length of time or for those sub zero nights when the temps dip below 60 degrees in the morning before I wake up.) For comparison purposes, I'm heating 1,800 square feet in a 1970s vintage two-story Cape with moderate insulation (mostly 2 x 4 walls) . . . and for the record . . . after loading up the stove around 9:30 p.m. and heading to bed by 10 p.m. I don't get up until 4:30-5:30 a.m. and it's rare that the temps have hit the 60 degree mark . . . plus there's always enough coals to do a reload.

Thank you for your imput. I posted some pictures to hopefully explain the need for the rear vent. We really don't want to have to redo our wall. I am not completely set against the cats, and actually kind of impressed with them, but I have to convince my husband that we need to clean the chimney every year, much less a catalytic converter. Even still it has been two years since we cleaned our chimney. The ash drawer was one of my husband's must haves (because he is primarily the one that tends to the stove) and with the woodstove being our only real heat we dont want to let the fire burn out in order to shovel out the ashes.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The thing is, if they have been kept warm by a 4 cu ft smoke dragon in a 1400 sq ft home, a Fireview isn't going to cut it. The original poster readily admits the house is "somewhat drafty".

Farmhouse + "somewhat drafty" + 4 cu ft smoke dragon = at least a 3 cu ft EPA stove.

No idea why they need rear venting, but if they can get around it, the Englander 30NC, Blaze King, Quadra-fire 5700, Harmon TL300, or the Lopi Liberty is my recommendation. Otherwise, the Isle Royal or the Equinox.

I have my doubts the Leyden, Oakwood, Heritage, or the Bennington would properly heat that place.

Also, making the ash drawer part of your "must haves" is a poor choice in my opinion. Make sure the stove will heat your place properly first. Ash pans are completely over-rated. Of the five stoves I have used (Vigilant, Heritage, Intrepid, Encore, Fireview) 3 had ash pans, two did not. Of the three that have had ash pans, only the Encore seemed worth it. And even then I wouldn't make it a reason for purchasing.

BrowningBAR, perhaps you have not followed our experience? Old house, not somewhat drafty, but drafty and we had that same stove. Fast forward, Fireview uses half the wood and house stays warmer.

 

[certified106]

I don't want to get into an ashpan debate on your thread but I heat 24/7 with my wood stove and in my opinion for the most part an ash pan is overrated, both my last stove and my current stove had them and I never use them.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The thing is, if they have been kept warm by a 4 cu ft smoke dragon in a 1400 sq ft home, a Fireview isn't going to cut it. The original poster readily admits the house is "somewhat drafty".

Farmhouse + "somewhat drafty" + 4 cu ft smoke dragon = at least a 3 cu ft EPA stove.

No idea why they need rear venting, but if they can get around it, the Englander 30NC, Blaze King, Quadra-fire 5700, Harmon TL300, or the Lopi Liberty is my recommendation. Otherwise, the Isle Royal or the Equinox.

I have my doubts the Leyden, Oakwood, Heritage, or the Bennington would properly heat that place.

Also, making the ash drawer part of your "must haves" is a poor choice in my opinion. Make sure the stove will heat your place properly first. Ash pans are completely over-rated. Of the five stoves I have used (Vigilant, Heritage, Intrepid, Encore, Fireview) 3 had ash pans, two did not. Of the three that have had ash pans, only the Encore seemed worth it. And even then I wouldn't make it a reason for purchasing.

BrowningBAR, perhaps you have not followed our experience? Old house, not somewhat drafty, but drafty and we had that same stove. Fast forward, Fireview uses half the wood and house stays warmer.

How old was the house? Where is your stove located? What type of floor plan?

I'm betting their house is a lot more drafty than yours is. I'm betting their house is very much like a traditional farm house that is long with a floor plan that is not open. I'll also bet the window next to the stove is single pane with a storm window.

This is not a knock against the Fireview. This is more of an understanding of old stone farm houses.

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

A few things:
- Nothing wrong with burning pine. Like any wood, as long as it is dry it will burn well.
- If you get a new stove, you need to have drier wood or your wood burning life will be miserable.
- Seems like your house is a little more than "somewhat drafty". I can relate. But acknowledging it allows you to plan better as oppose to blame the new stove.
- I'm assuming putting in a ceiling fan in the stove room is out of the question due to a low ceiling height, correct?
- Get a large stove. At least 3 cu ft.
- Try to find away to allow for top venting.
- If you can somehow topvent the stove, the Enlgander 30NC would be the most economical solution.[/quote]

We actually do have a ceiling fan in all of the rooms of the house except the kitchen (ceiling too low there), and we have vents through the floors for two out of the three bedrooms for better heat transfer. I don't want to lay all of my problems at the stove's feet. The Ashley was a good stove and definitely did better off of dry, hard wood. We are taking baby steps for getting into life in this house (we just moved in two years ago--the same time we started our dairy farm). We have used wet wood at desparate points during the winters and it was a miserable experience. But the Ashely was a pretty decent stove through it all. I just suspect that we were losing quite a bit of heat that we could have been putting into the house because it was by no means sealed well.

 

[BrowningBAR]

As other folks have said . . . or asked . . . there may be some other alternatives . . . and some good questions have been asked (i.e. need for a rear vent, are you truly married to the idea of an ash drawer, are you sure you wouldn't consider a stove with a cat, etc.)

I will say if budget is truly an issue you should look at Englander, Napoleon and Regency woodstoves to see if any of these would suit your needs as they are relatively no-frills, but hard working woodstoves.

If you want something a little fancier that should check off every box you could go with the Jotul Oslo or F-600 . . . the Oslo can be run with either a rear or top vent and it has a functional ash drawer that I use all the time. It also burns quite well and is near bullet-proof (much like the old Ashley) and in my case I would guess I'm heating 95% of the winter here in Maine with my woodstove (the oil boiler is relegated to stand by duty if I am away from the home for an extended length of time or for those sub zero nights when the temps dip below 60 degrees in the morning before I wake up.) For comparison purposes, I'm heating 1,800 square feet in a 1970s vintage two-story Cape with moderate insulation (mostly 2 x 4 walls) . . . and for the record . . . after loading up the stove around 9:30 p.m. and heading to bed by 10 p.m. I don't get up until 4:30-5:30 a.m. and it's rare that the temps have hit the 60 degree mark . . . plus there's always enough coals to do a reload.

Thank you for your imput. I posted some pictures to hopefully explain the need for the rear vent. We really don't want to have to redo our wall. I am not completely set against the cats, and actually kind of impressed with them, but I have to convince my husband that we need to clean the chimney every year, much less a catalytic converter. Even still it has been two years since we cleaned our chimney. The ash drawer was one of my husband's must haves (because he is primarily the one that tends to the stove) and with the woodstove being our only real heat we dont want to let the fire burn out in order to shovel out the ashes.

Redoing a stone wall is difficult (I have a bunch of stone walls currently surrounding me). I can see why you are limited.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

One more point with the rear exit. You also need to know the height of the flue that the new stove will have. Very few stoves are the same height and if you buy a stove that is higher than that Ashley was you'll have some big problems.


You may not want to hear this but one more point on that chimney cleaning. In 4 years we have got about a cup of soot from our chimney since getting the Fireview. We've cleaned it once. With the Ashley we used to clean it 3 - 4 times per year and got creosote.

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

How old was the house? Where is your stove located? What type of floor plan?

I'm betting their house is a lot more drafty than yours is. I'm betting their house is very much like a traditional farm house that is long with a floor plan that is not open. I'll also bet the window next to the stove is single pane with a storm window.

This is not a knock against the Fireview. This is more of an understanding of old stone farm houses.[/quote]

We are not completely sure of the age of the house but the barrier wall surrounding the house has a date of 1929 carved into the cement. You are correct. The floor plan isn't open. It was designed so that all of the rooms can be shut off with doors (including the staircase). We removed most of the doors on the downstairs, but that is the size of the openings from room to room. The windows were replaced 10 years ago or so, so they are double pane with no storm window. The door next to the stove is original with the old style keyhole that lets you see light from the outside. The kitchen was built onto the house so it is the only room that is really separated from the rest of the house. It is on the west side of the house. The kitchen leads into the dining room which is the room with the woodstove (because it has wood floors and a door that gives us direct access to a porch where we can store a few days supply of wood. The dining room, the living room and the laundry and bathroom are all kind of sqaushed together in a circle of blocks, with the bedrooms being right above these rooms. Hope this helps...maybe I should post a pic of the outside of the house. Thanks again.

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

One more point with the rear exit. You also need to know the height of the flue that the new stove will have. Very few stoves are the same height and if you buy a stove that is higher than that Ashley was you'll have some big problems.


You may not want to hear this but one more point on that chimney cleaning. In 4 years we have got about a cup of soot from our chimney since getting the Fireview. We've cleaned it once. With the Ashley we used to clean it 3 - 4 times per year and got creosote.

Thanks for that info about how clean it keeps the chimney. That is definitely something to consider. We are not too much worried about the height of the rear flue exit since it seems our Ashley is one of the taller stoves, but we do keep that in mind and often look at the drawn specs to see just how high the rear flue exit is on any stove that has made it into the "serious consideration" list.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for posting the pictures, they help and confirmed my suspicion about why a rear vent. The problem with this type of installation is that now you have to find a stove with a rear vent that is very close to or slightly lower than the current thimble height. That could be a big challenge. Raising that thimble would offer many more options for stove choice.

What is the height of the stove outlet on the Ashley? I'm thinking more strongly that the Jotul Rangeley F50TL is a good fit here if the rear vent height works.

 

[leeave96]

This is one of these installs that makes me think (browningBAR chime-in if you agree) that a new Vermont Castings Defiant 2in1 woodstove would be the ticket for you.

Here is a link to their manual: http://literature.mhsc.com/vermont_castings/manuals/30005220_Defiant_2N1_9.pdf

Rear vent is 26 inches

Has a huge ash pan (which I like ash pans too)

It is both a cat and non-cat stove, so you can set it up to burn either way. You may find that you like the cat, but if you don't, you would still have an EPA non-cat stove.

It has a thermostat to maintain constant temps.

Large firebox (about 3 cu-ft I think)

There is a blower option for it - which you could add later as $$'s become available.

It would look great on your hearth and you may be OK with the clearances too.

The bad part of the VC is their past history. Based on comments made last year with the new 2in1 designs, VC may be back on track with their stoves.

Price - prior to haggling, starts at $3000ish.

It will run on a 6 or 8 inch flue too.

VC Defiant 2in1 woodstove may be worth considering.

As others have stated, no matter which stove you buy, good firewood is a must.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[EatenByLimestone]

One thing to consider with the new stove is clearance to combustibles. Some of the newer stoves have shields on them that allow them to go closer to that side wall.

For convenience, you might want to look into moving that thimble up on the wall. It will give you many more stove options.


Matt

 

[BrowningBAR]

This is one of these installs that makes me think (browningBAR chime-in if you agree) that a new Vermont Castings Defiant 2in1 woodstove would be the ticket for you.

Here is a link to their manual: http://literature.mhsc.com/vermont_castings/manuals/30005220_Defiant_2N1_9.pdf

Rear vent is 26 inches

Has a huge ash pan (which I like ash pans too)

It is both a cat and non-cat stove, so you can set it up to burn either way. You may find that you like the cat, but if you don't, you would still have an EPA non-cat stove.

It has a thermostat to maintain constant temps.

Large firebox (about 3 cu-ft I think)

There is a blower option for it - which you could add later as $$'s become available.

It would look great on your hearth and you may be OK with the clearances too.

The bad part of the VC is their past history. Based on comments made last year with the new 2in1 designs, VC may be back on track with their stoves.

Price - prior to haggling, starts at $3000ish.

It will run on a 6 or 8 inch flue too.

VC Defiant 2in1 woodstove may be worth considering.

As others have stated, no matter which stove you buy, good firewood is a must.

Good luck,
Bill

If this was my place; Yes, I'd look hard at the Defiant due to the larger capacity than the Fireview and Encore. I am just concerned about the heat loss when it comes to old stone farm houses. Also, the Defiant offers a blower (as does the Encore).

I am always hesitant to recommend a VC due to the companies history and it is not completely clear at this point that they have straightened out their quality control issues. But, I really like the new 2-in-1 stoves.

If it was a guarantee that the new Woodstock stove would be available before the heating season begins, that would also be a good option as the theory is that it has about a 3 cu ft firebox. But the cost will probably be around $3,500 for the New Woodstock.

If budget is a strong motivator, the Isle Royal is cheaper than both of them. I think you can get an Isle Royal for about $2500.

Another line of thought would be to purchase an Englander 30 NC for about $900-1000 and put the savings into hiring a mason that will close up the existing hole with field stone (you wont need much and you should have plenty around your property) and open a new hole 3' - 4' higher. This will allow for top venting and shouldn't be terribly costly to do if consider your stated budget was no higher than $3,000. I would think the mason would not cost much considering the size of the job and you are supplying your own stone. I would think you could probably com in at about $2,000 total.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Wait, it's not a true stone wall, is it? It is just a stone facade. I can tell by the depth of your window sill and the way the stone sits. That makes it easier to patch the existing hole since you are dealing with a lot less than the traditional 24" stone walls.

 

[Todd]

Thanks for posting the pictures, they help and confirmed my suspicion about why a rear vent. The problem with this type of installation is that now you have to find a stove with a rear vent that is very close to or slightly lower than the current thimble height. That could be a big challenge. Raising that thimble would offer many more options for stove choice.

What is the height of the stove outlet on the Ashley? I'm thinking more strongly that the Jotul Rangeley F50TL is a good fit here if the rear vent height works.

+1 The Rangeley would be a nice fit, it's got the convection panels which would be better for house that's not so open. Also has a blower option to help move the warm air out. Hope that wall thimble isn't too tall. The Bennington may work as well.

I also agree with your husband on the ash pan, shoveling ash makes a mess no matter what you do and that's one of the reasons I switched from a Fireview to the Keystone, I like a good ash pan system.

 

[Rich L]

Forget the Fireview.It won't heat your spot.I returned mine and I'm also trying to sell the Classic model after using it one season.They were too small and my area doesn't get down to -10 to -15 degrees.The Mansfield would help but you won't be able to put in a pipe damper with your set up.With your long chimney you must have a great draft.You need to be able to slow it down so your burn will last longer.Too bad you couldn't re-run your chimney and run the pipe higher to the inside.That way I'd say find a way to get the Equinox or the Blaze King King.You wouldn't be getting up at night to re-fill the stove though the Equinox would do better with a pipe damper whereas the King wouldn't need one.They both would need 8" pipe.If you have a super draft I don't think any stove would burn long without the damper other than a Blaze King.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Forget the Fireview.It won't heat your spot.I returned mine and I'm also trying to sell the Classic model after using it one season.They were too small and my area doesn't get down to -10 to -15 degrees.The Mansfield would help but you won't be able to put in a pipe damper with your set up.With your long chimney you must have a great draft.You need to be able to slow it down so your burn will last longer.Too bad you couldn't re-run your chimney and run the pipe higher to the inside.That way I'd say find a way to get the Equinox or the Blaze King King.You wouldn't be getting up at night to re-fill the stove though the Equinox would do better with a pipe damper whereas the King wouldn't need one.They both would need 8" pipe.If you have a super draft I don't think any stove would burn long without the damper other than a Blaze King.

Your home is either over 3,000 sq ft or it is drafty. I'm curious as to which? Also, how old is your home?

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

[Your home is either over 3,000 sq ft or it is drafty. I'm curious as to which? Also, how old is your home?[/quote]

It is drafty. It is just under 1400 square feet and as far as we can tell, built on or before 1929.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Your home is either over 3,000 sq ft or it is drafty. I'm curious as to which? Also, how old is your home?

It is drafty. It is just under 1400 square feet.

I'm sorry for the confusion. My post was in response to Rich L's post about the Woodstock stoves out working for him.

I relate to your draftiness, though. I have three stoves that, in theory, should heat about 5,400 sq ft under ideal circumstances... My home is only 2150 sq ft.

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

Thanks for posting the pictures, they help and confirmed my suspicion about why a rear vent. The problem with this type of installation is that now you have to find a stove with a rear vent that is very close to or slightly lower than the current thimble height. That could be a big challenge. Raising that thimble would offer many more options for stove choice.

What is the height of the stove outlet on the Ashley? I'm thinking more strongly that the Jotul Rangeley F50TL is a good fit here if the rear vent height works.

The rear flue is roughly 27.5 inches on center. Yeah, I am wishing we could change the flue height, but I think that will be a bit too costly considering the flue has to have 2' of concrete surrounding it... at least that is what we were told. I am not sure if that is just to do with safety standards or insurance regulations.

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

Wait, it's not a true stone wall, is it? It is just a stone facade. I can tell by the depth of your window sill and the way the stone sits. That makes it easier to patch the existing hole since you are dealing with a lot less than the traditional 24" stone walls.

No, it isn't a real stone wall, but when they put the flue through the wall they surrounded it with 2 ft of concrete...at least that is what they said they were going to do--for safety regulations...The house is a weird siding (possibly espestus?) that was later covered with vinyl siding.

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

Lots of things going through my mind right now after looking at the pictures..... What is the clearance between the left side of the stove and the window/wall? Are you planning on upgrading /putting in a hearth underneath the stove?

We don't own the house. So that makes permanent changes on the house a little tricky. The owners have been great thus far, but in trying to do things as economically as possible, we went with the fire mat, because a hearth would require us to put some sort of brace under the floor because our floor and ceiling braces are 24 inch oak on center instead of the 12 or 14 inches on center. So we already have a three inch sag in the floor and can't add a lot more weight without having to go underneath and redo some of the support and some other things that a contractor that was working on the place said we would need. The wall is 35 inches from the center of the flue.

 

[AmazingGraceDairy]

Forget the Fireview.It won't heat your spot.I returned mine and I'm also trying to sell the Classic model after using it one season.They were too small and my area doesn't get down to -10 to -15 degrees.The Mansfield would help but you won't be able to put in a pipe damper with your set up.With your long chimney you must have a great draft.You need to be able to slow it down so your burn will last longer.Too bad you couldn't re-run your chimney and run the pipe higher to the inside.That way I'd say find a way to get the Equinox or the Blaze King King.You wouldn't be getting up at night to re-fill the stove though the Equinox would do better with a pipe damper whereas the King wouldn't need one.They both would need 8" pipe.If you have a super draft I don't think any stove would burn long without the damper other than a Blaze King.

You definitely have a point there about the draft. Sometimes last year it was a bit too good and our stove pipe began to glow. This definitely gives me something to think about. Thank you. How do you like your Lopi? My husband really likes the look of the Leyden, and the price, but I am not sure if it is big enough for the house.

 

[begreen]

If I am understanding correctly, the flue outlet is 35" on center from the floor, correct? The Rangeley is 27" on center to the floor. The Isle Royale is the same. You would need to create a solid, rigid, non-combustible platform to raise the stove about 7.5"" for this to work.

Or you could get a Wonderwood circulator to replace the Ashley. It still will be lower. https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=310&product_id=506

 

[fossil]

BG...see posts #17 & #44. She reports the existing rear exit is 27½" from floor to centerline (as I read it). Rick